Burglar idea - forage loot

[Avril]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before, but one thing that would encourage burglars to stop raiding the same houses over and over again would be the presence of virtual, lootable appartments. Provide small gains of coins and loot for every square of the commoners' quarters, every reboot, with a risk of getting crimflagged even if you succeeded at looting some place (though this idea would work decently if and only if there was always a risk of getting crimflagged whenever you used lockpicks). To make sure nobody gets too rich doing it, there would be a finite number of loot pieces per square, and once burglars got through them all, they'd have to pray for a crash. Overhunting would thus be a possibility, as it is now, although the high ammount of "game" tends to ensure that there will usually be enough to go around. Just like the forage command, looting random houses would take away a small number of movement points, and require the use of a pick. This command would feel right in Allanak, where you find more locked doors in the actual street, whereas in Tuluk, every tenement features a long indoors hallway.

Another thing "looting" could do is create appartment/house objects, much like tent objects nowadays, in which people can hide and plunder (assuming the entrance is hidden, and in order to avoid twinking on the part of bystanders, it should be). The problem is that, as far as I know, the code can't just create rooms at random, and delete them as soon as they get empty.

It strikes me that there are two kinds of burglars: those considerate enough to steal only what they need, and those who strip houses clean of everything, including furniture. Let me assume that the former outnumber the latter, but are faced with the hard choice of either breaking into the same coded houses over and over again, or finding some other line of work. Let's give them some alternative, so that they can both carry on with their profession and stop discouraging everyone else from getting an apartment.

Nonetheless, this "solution" still doesn't change the fact that, once they get good enough, burglars can wipe PC apartments clean. As some have suggested, pooling together PC money to hire NPC guards isn't a really bad idea, especially when these NPCs both use the guard skill to keep burglars from sneaking in and have the authority to subdue anyone they catch sneaking out. Another tactic would be making the pick skill dangerous at any level, just as the steal skill is right now. Provide a real, random deterrent that can strike at any time, and people will take far greater precautions about their work. What this means is fewer thefts and more excitement for the burglars... Everybody would be pleased.
Except the twinks.

[Bestatte]

I don't think that apartments are being stripped clean exlusively by the burglars who are breaking into them.

I think the more typical scenario is a burglar breaks in, grabs what he thinks is worth grabbing, then leaves. And then someone else shows up, poking around, grabs a bunch of stuff, and leaves. And so on and so forth til there's nothing left, OR until the "Twink Peeker Guy" shows up to see what's behind unlocked door #4, grabs everything, and leaves.

What would be awesome...is if doors with locks that can be picked open, could also be picked shut. I think there are enough circumstances that would warrant a burglar NOT wanting to draw attention to the fact that "This Here Apartment Is Worth Robbing!"

And before y'all go on a tangent about real life locks and real life picks and how "therefore, it is impossible to re-lock a door with a lockpick," these aren't real life locks or real life picks. We have no idea what these locks look like. We don't even know if they have tumblers. We don't know anything about their mechanics, we just assume they look like a deabolt, or a door-button, or whatever else.

Anything can be made possible in fantasy-land. Something like this would be very UNrealistic, but also very useful, and very much in keeping with a burglar's desire to not advertise to all the OTHER burglars that this place is available for good pickins. Plus, imagine the possibilities..

If a burglar is sent because of a very specific job by his sekrit employer to steal only the green vorpal toe-ring of deth & destrukshun +10.. and he does..and makes sure to leave everything else in its place, and locks the door neatly behind him, it could be months before the victim even realizes the thing was stolen. And by then - the trail is ice cold.

That's my thoughts on the burglary problem.

[Cuusardo]

In a world like Zalanthas, in the societies of the cities that exist, why would there be just coins lying around anywhere?  If someone drops even a single coin, it's going to be scooped up immediately.

[spawnloser]

I suggest foraging with the arguments already available and sell what you get instead of foraging for coins directly, personally...

I mean, forage loot reeks of, "I'm gonna spend X amount of time picking pockets, how much do I get mister GM?"  Now...the problem with this is that you're using the forage skill, with your idea, rather than the steal skill, which would be the appropriate skill for this type of endeavor...if it was more a, "I'm gonna break into a few places, how much do I get miss GM?" you're still using the forage skill for something that the pick skill should be used for.  An interesting idea, I'll admit, but I'll have to say that I don't like it.

[Avril]

Bestatte, I have to agree with you, though giving burglars the ability to lock doors would be a tremendous advantage on their part. A door that's usually open, but still has a lock on it, could be shut and locked by a cunning burglar to protect himself from the guards far on the other side, or simply to stall their arrival should someone sound the alarm. A milder and even less realistic option would be allowing locks to auto-switch-on a few RL minutes after a lockable door is shut. Come to think of it...

Why isn't there a type of lock in Zalanthas that requires effort to disable, but only a flip of a lever, or a tug of a string, to be reactivated? For the reasons you mentioned, that sort of lock would have tremendous popularity among those rich enough to get it. This way, if concerned citizens (non-burglars) notice a door has been left open, they could just tap the lock and make everything safe again.

In a world like Zalanthas, in the societies of the cities that exist, why would there be just coins lying around anywhere?

"Forage loot", as I call it, would mean going into a random virtual appartment, using your picklock skill, and looting it of whatever few coins it has, not scooping up loot from the street. Let me explain...

You wouldn't use the forage skill. You would use the pick skill.
You would read all posts on the GDB clearly, and make sure you understand what they're about before replying.
You wouldn't forage from the street; you would raid apartments, and there would always be a risk to get yourself crimflagged. Whether the apartments were virtual or auto-generated is another thing.
You would thoroughly read every post you planned on replying to.
The only things you could steal would be little coins and very cheap household items.
You wouldn't get a whole lot from this ability, and if well-balanced, its risks and downsides would keep it from becoming a tremendous source of wealth.
You would notice every major element of information in a post before you started replying.

Oh, and just in case I didn't make it clear... Don't be such a commoner and Read The Post.
Heh.

[Lazloth]

"Forage loot", as I call it, would mean going into a random virtual appartment, using your picklock skill, and looting it of whatever few coins it has, not scooping up loot from the street ... You wouldn't use the forage skill. You would use the pick skill.

You're more nuts than my wife.

[spawnloser]

This time I'll be more specific...

USE FORAGE ARTIFACT

...thank you, come again.

[crymerci]

As someone said in another thread...let the virtual burglars steal from virtual apartments, and the PC burglars steal from PC apartments.  

If there are too many PC burglars in one city (or just one who is very greedy), then figure out a way to er...solve that.

[Cuusardo]

A bunch of trollish flames.

Still doesn't make it a good idea.

[sacac]

Hm.. break into a PC apartment with a chance of them being in there and or getting wanted.
or forage loot and surpass all of that? I don't like it.

[Miee]

Hm.. break into a PC apartment with a chance of them being in there and or getting wanted.
or forage loot and surpass all of that? I don't like it.

I do believe I read in her post that there was a chance of being crimflagged with the "forage loot"

Spawnloser, read her post.  It's not really a "forage".

[Gilvar]

The problem as I see it would be that the system would have to be very dynamic, whereby tons of houses would load with differing loot to represent the virtual tendancies of their inhabitents, then the system would have to randomify to make it so the same houses weren't loading with same loot. Then there would have to be the chance of the person being home, walking in while your there, someone seeing you, etc.

All this makes for a code-hell.

Besides that though, yes, it would be great if the entire virtual city was open to the pilvering, with all the realistic possibilities for riches or demise.

[spawnloser]

Yes, Miee, I got that when she clarified in her second post...which is why I didn't say anything about it being a way to bypass pick/steal skills by just using forage.  Still, all you gotta do is forage artifact to get worthless little doodads to sell, and that way you can also have some fun PC interaction trying to figure out what to do with all the junk you find.

[Incognito]

From another viewpoint...

You rent a house, which costs you a certain number of sids per month, depending on how much you can afford to pay Nenyuk.

Logic demands that if you're gonna store goods in there worth 10 times the rent cost, you're not covering your bases so to say.

Now, if you want to protect your goods, pay the extra sids it requires to get that class-A lock-fitted apartment from Nenyuk.

If you're even more paranoid, hire a guard (either PC or NPC) to patrol your door periodically.

Worst case scenario - if you cant afford an apartment with a decent lock, try and aquire a container which has a better lock and weight enough not to be dragged into the street by every commoner burglar.

Or you could always :
drop steel chain tied securely around the bed, winerack, carpet, coatstand, incense burner - so dont you dare steal this stuff you little piece of shit burglar!

[Ghost]

Now, if you want to protect your goods, pay the extra sids it requires to get that class-A lock-fitted apartment from Nenyuk.

This does not make it much safe.  There are two problems..
1) You dont always have all the options.  Nenyuki agents so far, either were out of my reach, or had very limited avaliable houses.  So I did not have much choice.
2) (And this is more important) Not all of the expensive houses mean better protection.
To give you an example, I have a -nearly- burglar proof house in 'nak.  But, someone who pays more than twice that I pay, got robbed more than once.  Well, there is of course IC ways to find out how good your lock is.  

If you're even more paranoid, hire a guard (either PC or NPC) to patrol your door periodically.

This is not a good idea I must say.  NPC guards are only given to Nobility, that I am told (Yes I asked for NPC guards, even I am in a -nearly- burglar proof house)  And PC guards are not even a solution.  You cant make someone stand there 9/11.  Playability + boredom.

Or you could always :
drop steel chain tied securely around the bed, winerack, carpet, coatstand, incense burner - so dont you dare steal this stuff you little piece of shit burglar!

I like this one a lot!  

[Whira's Luck]

Now, if you want to protect your goods, pay the extra sids it requires to get that class-A lock-fitted apartment from Nenyuk.

As someone who pays multiple thousands of sid a year for what has essentially become an overpriced liquor cabinet, I did laugh at this. It is extremely aggravating when a character pays out of their nose for a nice place and returns there time and time again only to find the door left completely ajar, week after week of closing it because of burglars.

Being burgled once in a while is all right. But not being able to leave anything in an apartment for fear of it being stolen is a bit much.

Either up the quality of locks on high priced apartments, or nerf lockpicking in some way to make it a little more difficult than it is. We don't need a forage loot skill, we need apartment locks a little harder to pick and lockpicking to be a skill that actually takes some talent, and isn't just something a monkey with a stick can do.

If I sound bitter about this, it's because I am.

[proxie]

Surely, in a city this size, there would be people you can talk to who can help you protect your property? Perhaps for a small fee or an exchange of favors?