A new idea for the ongoing subdue sentiments

[Armaddict]

"Oi've just had an apostraphe."
"I think you mean an epiphane."
"Lightning...has just struck my brain."
"That must hurt."

Heh, an idea just struck me for subdue, don't ask me where it came from, because I don't know.

How about we -eliminate- the combat bonus you get for attacking someone you've subdued.  That's right, eliminate them completely.  Only a third party would get those bonuses.

Instead, when you subdue someone, and initiate combat...what if it initiated something like 'grapple combat'.  Essentially, you've gotten them into a position where you can hold them, tackled them maybe.  Now the fists fly.  You can't get your weapons, or you lose your hold.  Depending on your subdue skill, offense, and defense, you may or may not be able to beat them unconcious before they get away from your advantageous position (the subdue).

They aren't at a complete disadvantage, either.  If they are better at subdue, they are likely better at grappling.  They can still fight back while still subdued.  They're still unable to flee the combat until they break the subdue (during grapple combat).  Until then, they are trying to knock -you- out just as much as you are them.  Hope you practiced subdue, otherwise you'll lose in these close-quarter brawls.

The only exception?  People without subdue.  They are completely unskilled in this sort of combat.  While getting punched, they are unable to strike back, instead reduced to -only- trying to break the subdue, i.e. get out of these close quarters, so that they can either fight in way they're more familiar with, or run away.

That's a quick rundown, but how would the players feel about it?

[EvilRoeSlade]

I would prefer a more detailed grapple system, but if it meant the end of muls and half-giants grabbing you and breaking your neck, that would be pretty bogus.

[Armaddict]

Well,  their strength and offense/defense bonuses still gives them the advantage.  But a warrior with high subdue might have -some- defense against it, now.

Most hits, I imagine, would hit head, neck, or body.  Perhaps the odd chance that you connect with a flailing arm.

[EvilRoeSlade]

What most people don't realize is that a really good warrior is not very likely to succumb to a half-giant's subdue.  Though it may seem overly powerful, if a half-giant kills you with that command, then you deserved to die.

But still, the subdue system (actually, pretty much the entire combat system), is pretty dull.  Giving it more flesh wouldn't be a bad thing.

[creeper386]

I'm really against the defense against something relying on the skill itself. Kicks better but still if you don't have it seems you get slaughtered.

What does being able to hold someone have to do with grappling? Or close quarter brawls. Specially if you dont' have the skill, you have NO defense? No  thank you, It's alittle understandable if you were defending against something relating to the skill, but even then it's lame.


Creep

[Armaddict]

I consider subdue something akin to wrestling.  Wrestling, grappling, and brawling are close in time.

Picture the guy who tackles another.  Now the other guy is subdued.  Now you hit him.  Horrendous damage could happen, but it's not guaranteed.

Hence the 'grappling combat'.  Now that tackler jumps on top of his adversary, straddles him (hence he's still subdued), and begins throwing punches or strangling.

I think it would be more akin to how a real fight would happen.  Endless ways to see it happening.

But I dunno, I probably just like it more than you guys because I came up with the idea

[X-D]

Couple things, First, remember, any time you screw with subdue you are screwing with crim code In some manner.

As To Half-giants and muls, why should they need a "skill" to be able to grab you and rip your head off your shoulders? Or to be able to fight back?

I don't have much of a problem with the idea when only being applied to human/dwarf/elf/half-elf/mantis/gith/halfling, (Though I tend to agree with ERS and Creeper) but it does not make much sense with the two giant races..Hell, I can't figure out why a half-giant or even a mul can't just sit there and hold you with one hand and pound his big meaty fist into your head repeatadly till you stop moving. But he can't he loses hold as soon as he attacks.

Though, No defense without the skill...Nah, specialy since only one class and one subclass gets the skill, talk about over powered, You could be pretty sure that every mul/HG in the game would be a warrior or guard sub.