Tuluk Closing to PC play -- discussion thread

[BadSkeelz]

It would be nice to see some of Staff's responses here added to the FAQ post. I'm pretty sure all of your questions have been answered somewhere in here already, AdmaBlue (Except  the one regarding 'Old Tuluk.' That's new to me)

[Barsook]

Wasn't Old Tuluk "removed" during the shrink?

[Lizzie]

A big part of me says "it's about time," but that's bias on my part, since I've never really enjoyed playing in Tuluk no matter how many times I've tried.

A small part of me will miss having a non-virtual city to complain about

And the rest of me is looking forward to seeing what new outposts and expansions of existing areas and random what-nots we're in for, after Tuluk ceases to be open for play.

[RogueGunslinger]

Dozens of other questions that should be answered immediately, or clarified if they've already been answered.

I just read this as: "Dozens of question that, if already answered, I want an answer for again, specifically addressing me so I don't have to go look for them."

[BadSkeelz]

Be nice. I'd probably be just as freaked out if I woke up and found a 10 page thread about Allanak being closed for Tuluk play.

Wasn't Old Tuluk "removed" during the shrink?

There's "The Crater" and a few roads that pass through what I presume to be Old Tuluk, but there doesn't seem to be much there, yeah.

[AdamBlue]

Dozens of other questions that should be answered immediately, or clarified if they've already been answered.

I just read this as: "Dozens of question that, if already answered, I want an answer for again, specifically addressing me so I don't have to go look for them."

Man, why are you trying to fight me? Stop.

[Nyr]

AdamBlue:  Many of these were answered in the announcement itself as well as the FAQ type post.  I'll go over those and the new ones.

"What does this mean for the various clans that are based northward? Do they receive invisible income from the income they're missing due to the removal of Tuluk?"

Tuluk will still exist as an IC entity.  So they still make money. 

"What happens to those with money invested in certain northern projects?"

Those with money invested in certain northern projects...I am not sure what is meant by this.  If it is a PC project in Tuluk, then unfortunately it will need to be emphasized elsewhere as there will be no PCs playing in Tuluk. 

"Where will all the northern PC's be forced to go once it is closed?"

Northern PCs that are templars or nobles must store by the deadline.  If you are not a noble or templar or some otherwise sponsored role that could not leave, and happen to log into Tuluk after the deadline, we'll have code to deposit you outside of the city. 

"What happens to all of the items that are in Tuluk, such as storage?"

The items that are in Tuluk will be in Tuluk; I am also not sure what is meant by this question so you might have to elaborate. 

"For people wanting to go home to Tuluk, would they need to retire?"

If you want to go home to Tuluk as a Tuluki PC, you can do so virtually as many times as you want to, but you'd need to understand that the city is codedly closed to PC play.

"Are there any parts of Tuluk that will be available after the closure?"

At this time no parts of Tuluk will be open to PC play, we are closing it to PC play after the deadline. 

"What happens to 'Old Tuluk'?"

I am also not sure what you mean by 'Old Tuluk.'

Dozens of other questions that should be answered immediately, or clarified if they've already been answered.

To answer them I suppose you would need to ask them, we'll do our best to answer quickly though maybe not immediately.

[Adhira]

It would be nice to see some of Staff's responses here added to the FAQ post. I'm pretty sure all of your questions have been answered somewhere in here already, AdmaBlue (Except  the one regarding 'Old Tuluk.' That's new to me)

I thought the same, but I'm at work and I'll get in trouble if I take too much time out to do that. Maybe when I get home.

[Patuk]

RGS is a gdb deity. He memorises every single post on these boards. When you go out and ask a dozen questions that have already been answered his first reaction isn't 'this person is stressed,' it's instead to mentally think of the proper posts and now be secure in his knowledge that the board is not littered with technically unnecessary posts.

[Nyr]

We can only add so much to the post (20k characters) but I can add some, sure.  So as to not clutter the thread here do we want a player collaboration thread to help consolidate so I can put them in?

[Barsook]

Let's.

[Dakota]

I don't see why those who made this decision didn't send hints to Tuluki players. I understand keeping the flow of things but what about lost time? Wasted efforts? By both players (and especially) northern staff? Certainly logical and interesting solutions could have also been explored if a constructive dialogue was opened.

It's also -very- jarring in general. An HRPT would catch a lot of flak but OK. This is Arm. That stuff happens yet theirs a story to it. Their -is- logic... But to just close up shop and offer the 'expat' option (i mean given Allanaki culture, history, general RP, does anyone in staff land expect a Tuluki Expat to have -any- success or survivability in Allank?). It's just so... For a game where Roleplay and keeping things logical and respectful to the gameworld...

Roleplay wise this is he most contrived thing I've ever seen in Arm. At least Kanks got a plague.

[Nyr]

I don't know how we could answer that any differently than we've answered it already, but I hear you, it sucks.

[Malken]

I heard that the al Seik are dying and the Arabeti will bang anyone, maybe they'll take us in?

[Talia]

My apologizes if I sounded like I'm afraid of one staffer coming in and ruining it all (RATHUSTRA!!!111!!). That is not how I meant to be taken. To me there seems to be something fundamentally flawed with the design of Tuluk that no amount of doc changes could address. My feeling is that it was the fact it is so easy to survive up there at all social levels. I never felt at risk in the City, or even for my friends who ride out routinely.

Allanak is a more lethal setting. Character turn over is higher. This has the effect of stirring the pot more, keeping things from getting calcified and stagnant. Unless the environment of Vrun Driath is radically changed to make it more survivable (which Staff has emphatically said is not going to be the case), I'm not too afraid of the same design mistakes being made in the south.

I am sure that amazing things will come from a refocusing of Staff attentions. I'm just leery of radical changes being made to Allanak, since Allanak seems to just "work."

Edit: I guess what I want to say is "Keep Allanak hard"?

As far as I see it--having played in both Allanak and Tuluk extensively, in politically-focused and combat-focused roles--there is nothing "wrong" with Tuluk (other than the attitudes of some players about it) other than the fact that we have approximately 50 fewer players on a weekly basis than we did in 2006.

In a real sense, Allanak is easier for players (who are mostly, when they start out, young American men) to understand. It's a town full of cowboys and the Zalanthan equivalent of first-person-shooter PCs. Tuluk is harder politically and socially. Allanak "works" because it's basically Tea-Party America on steroids. Note that I'm not criticizing what Allanak is: I'm just saying that it's easier because we collectively understand the model.

No radical changes are planned for Allanak. We have a crapton of documentation to flesh out and some tweaks to make to things that are dumb or don't work well, but they are not radical changes.

I don't think anyone interpreted you as being afraid of certain staffers. We were just illuminating how staff works, and how we adjust to different areas.

[bardlyone]

I don't see why those who made this decision didn't send hints to Tuluki players. I understand keeping the flow of things but what about lost time? Wasted efforts? By both players (and especially) northern staff? Certainly logical and interesting solutions could have also been explored if a constructive dialogue was opened.

It's also -very- jarring in general. An HRPT would catch a lot of flak but OK. This is Arm. That stuff happens yet theirs a story to it. Their -is- logic... But to just close up shop and offer the 'expat' option (i mean given Allanaki culture, history, general RP, does anyone in staff land expect a Tuluki Expat to have -any- success or survivability in Allank?). It's just so... For a game where Roleplay and keeping things logical and respectful to the gameworld...

Roleplay wise this is he most contrived thing I've ever seen in Arm. At least Kanks got a plague.

Would you rather Tuluk be so destroyed IC that there was nothing left so that there would be no feasible IC way to have it back if the OOC change doesn't work on an OOC level? I get that it sucks to some people, but the entire reason there's not a big IC thing wiping it out in game is, from my understanding of the original post, because they don't know that Tuluk should be gone forever.

[Fathi]

For what it's worth, Dakota, a lot of people thought the kank plague plot was really stupid and contrived. Because it wasn't a "real plot" and it impacted some clans much harder than others and it "only happened to solve an OOC issue."

Ditto with the HRPT that closed the Tan Muark. Ditto with the HRPT that closed House Uaptal. Ditto with the plotlines that closed the Silt Winds, Dune Stalkers, and other clans.

When there is a plot associated with a big change in the game world, if people don't like the change, they will find ways to be upset with the plot or will say that it wasn't a "real plot" and only occurred so some OOC aspect of the game could be changed/fixed.

No plot = why wasn't there at least a plot? Plot = this plot was stupid and the ending was railroaded and not a real plot.

And that's fair enough, really. People like plots where their PC has a chance to affect the outcome. People don't tend to like plots when the outcome is predetermined.

It's one of those situations where there just isn't a perfect solution, imo.

[BadSkeelz]

Thanks Talia. That's an interesting take on Allanak; I've heard something similar said about Tuluk, that it's like modern American culture in terms of shallowness, presentation and backbiting.

Hey, what are staff going to play as their PC-alternate now that all Staff are hovering around Allanak?

[Adhira]

Thanks Talia. That's an interesting take on Allanak; I've heard something similar said about Tuluk, that it's like modern American culture in terms of shallowness, presentation and backbiting.

Hey, what are staff going to play as their PC-alternate now that all Staff are hovering around Allanak?

Dragons.

[Nathvaan]

Thanks Talia. That's an interesting take on Allanak; I've heard something similar said about Tuluk, that it's like modern American culture in terms of shallowness, presentation and backbiting.

Hey, what are staff going to play as their PC-alternate now that all Staff are hovering around Allanak?

Oh Adhira's idea is way better than mine.  I was going to say cockroaches.  But yeah, dragons!

[roughneck]

To me, the tension and conflict between the two city states has been better than in the past, which is what I'm going to miss most about the change. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to see what Staff will accomplish elsewhere with re-directed time and resources.

[AdamBlue]

Allow me to be more specific.
Let's say Amos McAmoson has a dozen mounts in Tuluk. Realistically, why would he be dragging twelve inix, gwoshi, ect southward? Or would the mounts just be reimbursed into a ticket somewhere else?
What happens to all of the operations of the Byn in the north, who have a compound within the city, with all of the storage and treasures they collected within their storerooms that would take tons and tons of trips back and forth to bring southwards? What about the contracts they would take, and have taken?
What about people with northern apartments? What happens to all of their nice things? Are they refunded the money they put into their homes?
All the far cheaper resources in the north, are those not available to buy anymore to bring southward for trade? For example, you can buy stuff in Tuluk for ten times cheaper then in Allanak. Are those desirable prices simply removed from play entirely, which significantly hampers traders and merchants?
Is there going to be any where to replace 'Tuluk' as a passage into the Grey Forest, A K A a place where you can sit down and rest your mounts and eat something before heading into the Grey? Or is heading into the Grey directly from Luirs the new passage, which is a far greater, slightly more perilous journey the norm?
Does this mean that the prices of all of the things in the Grey, including wood, will go up significantly, as Tuluk will be unable to purchase from?
Does the road end at Tuluk? Will the gates just remain closed, with all of the guards standing outside, unable to enter?

[Talia]

Hey, what are staff going to play as their PC-alternate now that all Staff are hovering around Allanak?

Southlands staff can play in the GMHs, desert elves, Byn, other indies, Red Storm, or Labyrinth and still be playing "away" from their own clan group. At this moment, I don't personally have time to play a PC, which gives me the sads. But maybe soon. After I kill everyone in Allanak, thus reducing my workload, right?

[Nyr]

We are willing to work with players that have issues like that, per the announcement/FAQ, so Amos would need to put in a request to discuss with staff.

Byn -- this is a virtual closure of Tuluk.  Tuluk still exists IC.  Clan staff will handle this.
Northern apartments -- this is a virtual closure.  Tuluk still exists IC.  You can't have an apartment in a place you can't enter.  Put in a request if you need more details.
Resources -- we aren't closing the North, just Tuluk, and just for PC play.  We've also mentioned an outpost type thingy here.
Place to rest -- mentioned previously as well, yes, see above about outpost thingy.
Prices -- outpost.
Road -- this is a virtual closure of Tuluk.  Tuluk still exists IC.  You will be unable to enter Tuluk.

[Jihelu]

Hey, what are staff going to play as their PC-alternate now that all Staff are hovering around Allanak?

Southlands staff can play in the GMHs, desert elves, Byn, other indies, Red Storm, or Labyrinth and still be playing "away" from their own clan group. At this moment, I don't personally have time to play a PC, which gives me the sads. But maybe soon. After I kill everyone in Allanak, thus reducing my workload, right?

Now we wait for the next announcement.
"Nak has been closed to further push for tribal play"