Tuluk Closing to PC play -- discussion thread

[Jihelu]

Maybe politics will become more subtlety based because of northern influence. Elves will get slightly less shit, atleast publicly. Magickers might get shit on even more. Etc.
Or anyone talking that crazy talk will get sassed at.

[RogueGunslinger]

Another problem I can think of is that for people that die often they will find themselves back with the old PCs they were interacting with and I know that the answer to that might be play a d elf or a tribal dude but there is no way in hell I would want to play either (luckily, I can survive forever, so I'm mostly noting that for those who tend to die easily and might not enjoy the idea of d elves and tribals).

I hope we won't be "heavily suggested" to create a PC elsewhere than Allanak if we end up making many in a row and unfortunately finding ourselves bumping into the same PCs our past characters knew. It'll be much harder to avoid.

This is a fair concern, but I have been knowingly(to staff) creating PC's in pretty much only Allanak for a long time and there's never been a problem. Usually I just go to a different clan and that's more than enough distance. Sometimes I've even joined the same clan, but made sure my character was very different.

At the end of the day where we want to play is up to us, but staff will encourage you to pick somewhere new to avoid slipping up in your roleplay.

[valeria]

Another problem I can think of is that for people that die often they will find themselves back with the old PCs they were interacting with and I know that the answer to that might be play a d elf or a tribal dude but there is no way in hell I would want to play either (luckily, I can survive forever, so I'm mostly noting that for those who tend to die easily and might not enjoy the idea of d elves and tribals).

I hope we won't be "heavily suggested" to create a PC elsewhere than Allanak if we end up making many in a row and unfortunately finding ourselves bumping into the same PCs our past characters knew. It'll be much harder to avoid.

Honestly, this is one of the things I'm worried about.  I don't even die that often, I just like city RP + not playing with a bunch of people my former PC knew.  I'm hoping that apartments and things will be added to Red Storm and Luirs to make them more viable options for cityish RP outside of Allanak.  In theory there should be more people playing in those locations in the near future, so maybe they'll work out as a place to wait a few months for everyone my PC knew in Allanak to die or store.

[Talia]

Another problem I can think of is that for people that die often they will find themselves back with the old PCs they were interacting with and I know that the answer to that might be play a d elf or a tribal dude but there is no way in hell I would want to play either (luckily, I can survive forever, so I'm mostly noting that for those who tend to die easily and might not enjoy the idea of d elves and tribals).

I hope we won't be "heavily suggested" to create a PC elsewhere than Allanak if we end up making many in a row and unfortunately finding ourselves bumping into the same PCs our past characters knew. It'll be much harder to avoid.

I think what RGS said is pretty good. I would also say that it's very possible to play IN Allanak with different PCs and yet not always be playing with the same other PCs. The Byn, GMHs, indie clans, noble clans, AoD are all options, as is the Labyrinth, for play within Allanak. I think there's enough variety there and many places in the southlands will be pretty bumping.

[Barzalene]

Though in many ways this is a really hard change, it's an exciting one. What I didn't say earlier but wanted to, is that I very much appreciate the way this was handled. I appreciate that you guys went out of your way to communicate not just what the changes are, but that you recognize that it's hard for people and you did weigh that in deciding.

[Talia]

Though in many ways this is a really hard change, it's an exciting one. What I didn't say earlier but wanted to, is that I very much appreciate the way this was handled. I appreciate that you guys went out of your way to communicate not just what the changes are, but that you recognize that it's hard for people and you did weigh that in deciding.

It's hard for staff too. A lot of us have deep love for Tuluk, me included. And we respect that players feel that same love.

[Malken]

This is a fair concern, but I have been knowingly(to staff) creating PC's in pretty much only Allanak for a long time and there's never been a problem. Usually I just go to a different clan and that's more than enough distance. Sometimes I've even joined the same clan, but made sure my character was very different.

At the end of the day where we want to play is up to us, but staff will encourage you to pick somewhere new to avoid slipping up in your roleplay.

Yeah but while you were doing this others were moving around so while you stuck to Allanak forever you had new players coming in from elsewhere and dead Nakkis moving out too. Now we are sorta all tossed in the same stew and even if you stir players around there still very limited options until we end up creating the Charles II of Spain of role play.

[BadSkeelz]

Allanak might be indelibly changed by this as well, as the creative minds that worked on the north migrate south to make their mark.  By all accounts, this is a new era for the game.  

I'm honestly kind of worried about this, since the north evidently wasn't a successful product. I hope the creative minds help enhance Allanak's (And Luir's, and Red Storm, and the rest of the Known's) existing flavors  and not try and force unsuccessful northern elements  back in.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

[Jihelu]

Allanak might be indelibly changed by this as well, as the creative minds that worked on the north migrate south to make their mark.  By all accounts, this is a new era for the game.  

I'm honestly kind of worried about this, since the north evidently wasn't a successful product. I hope the creative minds help enhance Allanak's (And Luir's, and Red Storm, and the rest of the Known's) existing flavors  and not try and force unsuccessful northern elements  back in.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

If this makes sense,
I hope that the new ideas are a seasoning, not a melting pot. Add something alittle extra but you still have the same food.

[RogueGunslinger]

This is a fair concern, but I have been knowingly(to staff) creating PC's in pretty much only Allanak for a long time and there's never been a problem. Usually I just go to a different clan and that's more than enough distance. Sometimes I've even joined the same clan, but made sure my character was very different.

At the end of the day where we want to play is up to us, but staff will encourage you to pick somewhere new to avoid slipping up in your roleplay.

Yeah but while you were doing this others were moving around so while you stuck to Allanak forever you had new players coming in from elsewhere and dead Nakkis moving out too. Now we are sorta all tossed in the same stew and even if you stir players around there still very limited options until we end up creating the Charles II of Spain of role play.

I suppose that's where D-elves, Red-Storm, Tribal humans, Luirs, and the Labyrinth come into play. All of which should be getting more players.



Another benifit from this I just realized is The Byn, and the GMH's won't be so split up and spread out. I long for the days of having 3 Byn sergeants in Allanak again. I wonder how the upcoming exodus-plot will affect GMH's who get most of their product from up north. More retrieval/hunting RPT's?

[Molten Heart]

GMH Field Ops extended material extraction excursions, in my hopeful opinion.

[Nyr]

Allanak might be indelibly changed by this as well, as the creative minds that worked on the north migrate south to make their mark.  By all accounts, this is a new era for the game. 

I'm honestly kind of worried about this, since the north evidently wasn't a successful product. I hope the creative minds help enhance Allanak's (And Luir's, and Red Storm, and the rest of the Known's) existing flavors  and not try and force unsuccessful northern elements  back in.

We do staff rotations and move staff around to new positions about once every year/year and a half or so.  The clan rotations we take on are just those--rotations. While we are there, we aim to do a good job and treat it well, but moving from one spot to another doesn't necessitate that the staff member bring the same ideas along (except in a general sense--like pushing to get documentation updated, for instance).

[Adhira]

Allanak might be indelibly changed by this as well, as the creative minds that worked on the north migrate south to make their mark.  By all accounts, this is a new era for the game.  

I'm honestly kind of worried about this, since the north evidently wasn't a successful product. I hope the creative minds help enhance Allanak's (And Luir's, and Red Storm, and the rest of the Known's) existing flavors  and not try and force unsuccessful northern elements  back in.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

This isn't really that much of a concern for us on staff. We really operate much more as a team than appearances lead you to believe. While one person may post a change, or make the documentation change, they never make those decisions on their own. They always post them up for discussion. They usually aren't the only person that has worked on them. Tuluk didn't get they way it was by the work of just one person, or three, or even six. It was the work of many many staffers, and players. The same can be said of Allanak. The staff who have worked on Tuluk have also spent time on Allanak, and so forth.

Those creative minds have rotated in and out and around, and even when their names haven't been attached visibly to a project they have had influence. You may fear the 'melting pot' syndrome but staff has always operated in this fashion.

[Talia]

We do staff rotations and move staff around to new positions about once every year/year and a half or so.  The clan rotations we take on are just those--rotations. While we are there, we aim to do a good job and treat it well, but moving from one spot to another doesn't necessitate that the staff member bring the same ideas along (except in a general sense--like pushing to get documentation updated, for instance).

Yeah--just as we expect players to play by the docs when they are creating a PC in a new location, staff also "plays by the docs" when we move to a new location. Allanak has its own distinct culture, as does Red Storm, as does the Labyrinth, as does Luir's, as do each of the desert elf tribes, human tribes, etc. And although individual staff members may have specialties as far as their play experience or staffing experience, collectively we have experience in all of it--and we rely on one another to be experts in areas we are not, personally.

SNIPED BY ADHIRA.

[Rokal]

Honestly, being a tuluki player right now, I actually canceled a store request because of this happening, because rp and adventure is about the journey, and I'm excited to see where this new change could lead to in a journey for my character.

Sometimes its best to embrace change in a rp setting and just make the best of it!

[BadSkeelz]

My apologizes if I sounded like I'm afraid of one staffer coming in and ruining it all (RATHUSTRA!!!111!!). That is not how I meant to be taken. To me there seems to be something fundamentally flawed with the design of Tuluk that no amount of doc changes could address. My feeling is that it was the fact it is so easy to survive up there at all social levels. I never felt at risk in the City, or even for my friends who ride out routinely.

Allanak is a more lethal setting. Character turn over is higher. This has the effect of stirring the pot more, keeping things from getting calcified and stagnant. Unless the environment of Vrun Driath is radically changed to make it more survivable (which Staff has emphatically said is not going to be the case), I'm not too afraid of the same design mistakes being made in the south.

I am sure that amazing things will come from a refocusing of Staff attentions. I'm just leery of radical changes being made to Allanak, since Allanak seems to just "work."

Edit: I guess what I want to say is "Keep Allanak hard"?

[Zoltan]

I couldn't believe this was actually happening when my wife mentioned this thread. I really enjoyed playing in Tuluk in the past, but this change is very exciting. I have many reasons why I don't really play any more (most don't have anything to do with the game itself or its players and staff), but this change may very well address a major one. In my heyday I was able to play on-peak all the time, but I'm now living the American third shift life. Playing Arm with limited PC interaction is a nightmare for me. The probable consolidation of the playerbase is making me consider getting back into the game.

[RogueGunslinger]

My apologizes if I sounded like I'm afraid of one staffer coming in and ruining it all (RATHUSTRA!!!111!!). That is not how I meant to be taken. To me there seems to be something fundamentally flawed with the design of Tuluk that no amount of doc changes could address. My feeling is that it was the fact it is so easy to survive up there at all social levels. I never felt at risk in the City, or even for my friends who ride out routinely.

Allanak is a more lethal setting. Character turn over is higher. This has the effect of stirring the pot more, keeping things from getting calcified and stagnant. Unless the environment of Vrun Driath is radically changed to make it more survivable (which Staff has emphatically said is not going to be the case), I'm not too afraid of the same design mistakes being made in the south.

I am sure that amazing things will come from a refocusing of Staff attentions. I'm just leery of radical changes being made to Allanak, since Allanak seems to just "work."

Edit: I guess what I want to say is "Keep Allanak hard"?

Honestly (and I've disagree with you about this before) I think surviability is the same north and south, codedly for both areas. I think the difference you noticed comes down to the players more so than the area. The type of player and roleplay that Tuluk tended to attract is the sort which lives longer than the sort of player who frequents Allanak.

When I played in Tuluk I was dying just as much as anywhere else. You, on the other-hand, probably would have had your current character for another 3 real-life years up there.

[BadSkeelz]

I do seem stupidly charmed at times.

[AdamBlue]

Terrible idea.
Should of done something ICly instead of OOCly. If Tuluk experienced a massive Kryl attack and was partially destroyed or something of the like, this would be fair and cool and w/e.
But from an OOC standpoint, this is terrible. This will both cut off adventure into the Northern Grey by a large, large sum as people will refuse to travel all the way into the Grey from Luirs, and it will also render a lot of currently going on RP in Tuluk to be simply nullified. Unless there is a justified IC reason for this happening or you're remodeling Tuluk into something bigger and better and that this is only a temporary thing?
This is horrible.
I'm sorry. I love the game. I love Allanak and Red Storm and Luirs, and there is where I play the most. However, the fact that Tuluk will not be playable anymore simply doesn't make sense in a large sum. You're cutting off an entire area of the game that people put their time and effort into, with no justifiable reason.
In addition to this, Luirs becomes much less powerful as a whole. Red Storm becomes more powerful, as it becomes one of the largest food traders to the rest of the Known world.
Why would you make such a drastic change without officially consulting everyone? I know you've provided a reason, but that honestly does not cut it. This is a huge choice that effects -everything- in the entire game.

[RogueGunslinger]

Terrible idea.
Should of done something ICly instead of OOCly.

They are doing something ICly. I suggest going back through and reading the staffs replys in this thread.

If Tuluk experienced a massive Kryl attack and was partially destroyed or something of the like, this would be fair and cool and w/e.
But from an OOC standpoint, this is terrible. This will both cut off adventure into the Northern Grey by a large, large sum as people will refuse to travel all the way into the Grey from Luirs, and it will also render a lot of currently going on RP in Tuluk to be simply nullified. Unless there is a justified IC reason for this happening or you're remodeling Tuluk into something bigger and better and that this is only a temporary thing?
This is horrible.

I'd say there's plenty of resource reasons for traveling to the north.

I'm sorry. I love the game. I love Allanak and Red Storm and Luirs, and there is where I play the most. However, the fact that Tuluk will not be playable anymore simply doesn't make sense in a large sum. You're cutting off an entire area of the game that people put their time and effort into, with no justifiable reason.

The reason is consolidation, and I think it's a very good reason.

In addition to this, Luirs becomes much less powerful as a whole. Red Storm becomes more powerful, as it becomes one of the largest food traders to the rest of the Known world.
Why would you make such a drastic change without officially consulting everyone? I know you've provided a reason, but that honestly does not cut it. This is a huge choice that effects -everything- in the entire game.

Because when it comes down to it "everyone" doesn't get to make the decision, staff do. We have had multiple discussions on the topic of nixing Tuluk, Allanak, whatever. I'm sure staff consulted those threads to get a general idea of the player-bases acceptance of the idea. At the end of the day how much discussion do you expect to have?

[TheWanderer]

they've addressed everything in that post multiple times

[Malken]

Everyone = half would think its a terrible idea and the other half would think its a great idea. Welcome to the GeeDeeBee.

[Nyr]

We do feel we have justifiable reasoning for this decision (understandably, you might disagree with it).   I don't think we can provide any answers that will satisfy you, at least if that is what you think.  It's understandable to be frustrated about it--feel free to vent.

[AdamBlue]

Terrible idea.
Should of done something ICly instead of OOCly.

They are doing something ICly. I suggest going back through and reading the staffs replys in this thread.

If Tuluk experienced a massive Kryl attack and was partially destroyed or something of the like, this would be fair and cool and w/e.
But from an OOC standpoint, this is terrible. This will both cut off adventure into the Northern Grey by a large, large sum as people will refuse to travel all the way into the Grey from Luirs, and it will also render a lot of currently going on RP in Tuluk to be simply nullified. Unless there is a justified IC reason for this happening or you're remodeling Tuluk into something bigger and better and that this is only a temporary thing?
This is horrible.

I'd say there's plenty of resource reasons for traveling to the north.

I'm sorry. I love the game. I love Allanak and Red Storm and Luirs, and there is where I play the most. However, the fact that Tuluk will not be playable anymore simply doesn't make sense in a large sum. You're cutting off an entire area of the game that people put their time and effort into, with no justifiable reason.

The reason is consolidation, and I think it's a very good reason.

In addition to this, Luirs becomes much less powerful as a whole. Red Storm becomes more powerful, as it becomes one of the largest food traders to the rest of the Known world.
Why would you make such a drastic change without officially consulting everyone? I know you've provided a reason, but that honestly does not cut it. This is a huge choice that effects -everything- in the entire game.

Because when it comes down to it "everyone" doesn't get to make the decision, staff do. We have had multiple discussions on the topic of nixing Tuluk, Allanak, whatever. I'm sure staff consulted those threads to get a general idea of the player-bases acceptance of the idea. At the end of the day how much discussion do you expect to have?

"What does this mean for the various clans that are based northward? Do they receive invisible income from the income they're missing due to the removal of Tuluk?"
"What happens to those with money invested in certain northern projects?"
"Where will all the northern PC's be forced to go once it is closed?"
"What happens to all of the items that are in Tuluk, such as storage?"
"For people wanting to go home to Tuluk, would they need to retire?"
"Are there any parts of Tuluk that will be available after the closure?"
"What happens to 'Old Tuluk'?"

Dozens of other questions that should be answered immediately, or clarified if they've already been answered.