The Current Languishing of Tuluki Nobility

[Gimfalisette]

I believe that Tuluk's societal leanings toward subtlety and its behind-closed-doors style of politics hampers the formation of conflict, plots, and interaction among the castes, and in the end hurts the playerbase's desire to play nobility up there. <snip> is it conducive to our overall fun to have an entire population centre in the game where if you want fun and plots, you have to go digging for them, even from your own employers? Is it helpful to new players or infrequent players or off-peak players or players unfamiliar with that area of the game to establish a culture where the intrigue and moving-and-shaking is purposefully hidden from view? <snip> What I'm trying to say is that in other areas of the game, it's much, much easier to notice when Cool Things are Going On. Which is an important draw for new or new-to-the-area players. People may be wary of apping Chosen or sticking with roles that would make things more entertaining for Chosen because when they've played in Tuluk, they weren't able to discern the difference between "cultivated air of calm" and "nothing going on."

I feel you. Even playing a noble, or a couple of very involved bards, and being someone who is pretty good at getting into plots, Tuluk was definitely harder than necessary on the plot-entanglement level. Often, I think players of Tuluki leader PCs just don't know how to navigate the knife's-edge difference between "subtly saying stuff" and "subtly saying nothing." And they tend to err on the side of saying nothing.

Things I think Tuluki leader PCs could do better (and now that I think about it, most Allanaki leader PCs too, on some points):

-- If you're in private, drop the subtle crap. Subtlety is a public habit, not a private one. Tulukis developed subtlety so they could present that face to the occupying Allanakis, not to each other; IMO, subtlety is a weapon to be used against the -enemy-, not an ally. In private, it's more than fine to speak boldly and plainly. Everyone will feel relieved and much happier when you stop trying to be subtle 100% of the time. In fact, in my experience and analysis of Tuluk, the willingness to be un-subtle with another PC is a culturally significant symbol of friendship.

-- Make a habit of confiding sekrets to your employees. The majority of sekrets are not such a huge deal that you're going to screw yourself by telling them. But, in my experience, most employers rarely tell their employees sekrets. Obviously you're going to want to tailor the sekret-telling to the employee's reliability, trustworthiness, loyalty to the organization, etc. But even then I'd suggest erring on the side of incaution. Learning sekrets is majorly fun for minions, and you might be their only source.

-- Realize that the prohibition on talking about magick, spooky stuff, benders, whatever...is a -public- prohibition. It's OK to tell your employees, behind your own walls, about creepy stuff that is happening, or to educate them. Warn them not to talk about this crap in the taverns, because that's one of the things you just don't do in Tuluk, but be OK with talking about it if necessary, behind walls.

-- If your minions show any interest in or aptitude for politics, train them in that area. Perhaps they won't really use it now, but they might later make a character who's got some background knowledge. Training them in politics means making sure they are informed on all the city's cultural customs; here's a great opportunity to hire a Circle bard to interact with your minion about this. Then, provide opportunities for your minion to interact with nobles and templars on business matters or just as polite company.

-- Use your minions for plot stuff that has nothing to do with coded skills. Task them to make friends with particular people (because those people might be useful), or to spread rumors about something, or to try to get information about a matter. Tasks like this require them to develop relationships and attempt to dig into what's happening. A lot of players won't do this stuff on their own, so the leader should push them, with an OOC eye on the fact that this is good for plots.

-- Be more interesting in the taverns. Sure, you're there to put in an appearance. But with so many noobs coming through Tuluk, if you wait for people to approach YOU for interaction, you're going to be waiting forever. Speaking as a (mostly) former noob, with the documentation being so strident about how dangerous templars and nobles are, it's a rare noob who is going to try to approach you. And experienced players are often so wary of noobles from being previously burned that they won't approach you. So it's up to YOU to find a way to interact at the taverns, not everyone else. In both an IC and an OOC sense, noble and templar PCs are the "parents" of a city's playerbase; and it's the parent's job to make sure the relationship happens, not the child's. In Tuluk, tavern interaction should be staggeringly simple for nobles and templars; just go sit at the bar and chat people up like the superior person you are. Share drinks and spice with the common rabble. (I will send kudos to the first templar I see actually sit at the bar in the Sanc.) Let the commoners see that you're an interesting, witty, kindly, generous person, because it's good for your public image to be so, in Tuluk. I just have always seen far too much cool aloofness from Tuluki nobles and templars; it ain't Allanak, people.

[a strange shadow]

If you're in private, drop the subtle crap.

[Reiloth]

stuff.

I believe there are already common people following all your guidelines in Tuluk as it is. I would just like three Nobles to pop up and do the same.

I also think this would make it at least 'seem' that there are 'leaders' online most of the time.

At this point in time, there is an active 'Military' presence; templars, Legions, and what have you. When this is all there is in a city, it becomes black and white, one sided, and droll. As it stands, when these people have their time off, they make up 90% of the bar. Get some Tenneshi, Kassigarh, and Winrothol up in that piece; a noble each, and a pair of employees, and you have a bumpin' social scene.

I think it is that simple.

Also a certain Kassigarh / Tenneshi Noble that has been in retirement who is fat as fuck, or was at least, should un-store god damnit.

[Janna]

Also a certain Kassigarh / Tenneshi Noble that has been in retirement who is fat as fuck, or was at least, should un-store god damnit.

Seconded.

[Delstro]

Gim, your post made me think about a noble role. That is all.

[Gimfalisette]

I believe there are already common people following all your guidelines in Tuluk as it is. I would just like three Nobles to pop up and do the same.

Could very well be. Generally speaking, I haven't seen the same kinds of hrm...role errors in commoner leaders in Tuluk as in nobles/templars. I think that's because of the radical cultural differences between the leader types; if you're playing a GMH family member, or a Sergeant of some organization, the perceived expectations of character style are very different. As in, I think we all believe it's OK for commoners to be rougher around the edges, less subtle, less sekretive, more friendly, more ready to mingle, etc. But we have some confusion as to whether that's OK for nobles and templars in Tuluk. Speaking from experience, it's very hard to figure out where the appropriate point is between "buddy noble" and "uber-superior noble" when playing the role. But I attempted to err on the side of approachability.

At this point in time, there is an active 'Military' presence; templars, Legions, and what have you. When this is all there is in a city, it becomes black and white, one sided, and droll. As it stands, when these people have their time off, they make up 90% of the bar. Get some Tenneshi, Kassigarh, and Winrothol up in that piece; a noble each, and a pair of employees, and you have a bumpin' social scene.

Yeah, that would be pretty ideal. Though I like nobles from any of the Houses; they each have their own cool flavor and lots of plot potential.

Gim, your post made me think about a noble role. That is all.

Good Seems a few people have been tickled by the idea. I still think it's valuable to send in apps without waiting for the staff to officially open the roles.

[Seeker]

If they'd ever do open it up, I might try another Tuluki noble. 

I even have a concept:  I'd sponsor a traveling menagerie, dump the rest of my money on PC craftsman to make BIG public art Totem Poles with the images of people I didn't like all at bottom and scrunched-up, and I'd pee off the balcony of the Lucky Ghaati frequently.  She'd be subtle in between that stuff.  Like crazy.


Seeker

[Gimfalisette]

I'd pee off the balcony of the Lucky Ghaati frequently.  She'd be subtle in between that stuff.

From a female perspective, I'm kind of racking my brain on how you're going to accomplish that. With the wall being there around the balcony and the female anatomy and all that. But, cool. It would probably be something interesting to see, however you worked it out

[Yam]

I'd pee off the balcony of the Lucky Ghaati frequently.  She'd be subtle in between that stuff.

From a female perspective, I'm kind of racking my brain on how you're going to accomplish that. With the wall being there around the balcony and the female anatomy and all that. But, cool. It would probably be something interesting to see, however you worked it out

It's quite possible if you think to use your body like a mortar. Females are actually capable of beating any man in a pissing contest by using the 'indirect fire' technique.

[Vessol]

How did this topic turn from nobles in Tuluk to female's peeing? 

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Yeh, stay on topic. Dear Lord.

[mansa]

4) The Qynar System & Conflict:

You have six different Chosen each with their own qynar to govern, but once you have one, the only reasonable conflict with other Chosen is just to attract more development and deals to your qynar than theirs. It isn't as if Chosen have become feudal lords of Tuluk who can kill their competitors and claim each other's lands, because the templarate is always still in ultimate control. (And if you're a Hlum Chosen, you don't even get in on the whole qynar skit to begin with.)

This is exactly the system that was set up with Governances. Nobles can kill their competitors and claim each other's lands. There are (or were), in fact, rules on how to do it.

I can't really make a statement on how this is implemented now, not having been in the game for over a year now (or more?). However, I can make a statement on the intent, when I came up with the whole thing. Under the idealized setting in my mind, Nobles would all be struggling against one another, forging alliances and marriages or vying for the resources and power to off one another and gain control over the other nobles lands. Furthermore, the lands themselves were given a certain amount of weight in terms of resources they generated, and power over other lands. Everything is tied together: for example you might control a land which generates slaves, but your biggest enemy might control your water supply.

Governors were given open ended rules on what they could do with their lands. This allowed PCs to choose what they wanted to do. Governor A might cut off the water supply to Governor B's slave-generating lands. Unchecked, this could screw Governor B's livelihood. Governor B forges an alliance with Governor C, who bans all of Governor A's employees and patrons from visiting merchants in their lands. Shortly thereafter, for grins, Governor C hires an assassin to attempt to assassinate and steal the rights to Governor B's slave-generating lands. The cycle continues. Welcome to Armageddon.

It's a cool system, and a lot of really hard work went into making the noble houses of Tuluk all very unique and interesting. I remember, each time I read the documentation for a new one, I thought to myself: "Wow, I want to play one of those guys". "Those guys" were awesome, and there were lots of them.

Much of the system was left open and undefined so that PCs could bumble around, make mistakes, and generally screw shit up. Yes: I was, secretly, kind of hoping the PCs would throw the Tuluki economy out of whack causing massive starvation and famine to wreak havoc across the city-state. That wasn't the actual goal, but it would have been entertaining and a learning experience for everyone.

The whole thing isn't without it's flaws though. It does have some requirements for smooth running:

1) An active playerbase. At all levels. Nobles and Templars are required to do the scheming, while peons are required to do a lot of the dirty work. That said - Tuluk is not Allanak, and nobles in Tuluk can get their hands dirty. Also note that "Active" doesn't have to mean "large". "Large" is good - more players is always more fun, but a small core group of regular players can get a lot accomplished, and germinate the seeds for a popular swing to a new city-state.
2) Active staff. Above all else, Governors were intended to be Lawmakers. Staff involvement is needed in making sure the laws actually happen, and are enforced (though a lot of that responsibility can fall to the PC Templars). Also, staff are needed to
3) Creative and active nobles. Coming up with schemes and "things to do" should be as easy as deciding "I want that land for myself". It's coming up with the "how" that's the interesting part, as well as the gumption to go after it in the first place. If nobles don't log in, or are unmotivated to action (they should be - we put very tangible rewards for conflict) then, as someone posted above: nothing happens.

Ideally, the whole thing runs smooth and almost autonomously with 6 nobles (preferably from 6 different houses, but doubling up can be cool), and a couple of Templars. The most important ingreedient, though, is active nobles. Without a large group of active nobles (between 4-6), the whole thing sort of falls apart. It's like playing paintball by yourself. With nobody around to shoot at, things get really dull, quickly. With the right mixture of active nobles and players, RP in Tuluk should be a little like playing "Smear the Queer" with velvet gloves and nice words.

If that's not happening, my guess is that one (or more) of those things isn't really happening. From reading this thread, it sounds like it may be that there aren't enough active PC nobles. Either PCs are MIA, or they've deceased/retired. The whole thing was designed to have 6 active PC nobles. If there aren't 6 active PC nobles, then the original intent behind the whole system is kind of lost, and you can't really say it "doesn't work". It's like saying the copier doesn't work, when there isn't enough paper in it for it to function in the first place.

I suggest some proactive folks jam some more paper into the copier, and let it spin up on 'high' for a while. App for more nobles, and request the staff keep on people that might be going MIA.

All of that said, with this Caveat: I have no idea what the current Staff have planned, are planning, or have changed. It could be that they don't want to maintain a system like this and would rather spend resources getting 2.Arm up and running. Or maybe they're just busy with other things. Or maybe they're very eager to get things cooking up in Tuluk, and just haven't had the opportunity, or are waiting for something "special". In any case: without knowing what's going on Upstairs, really, this post serves no other purpose than to maybe shed some light on the intentions and goals behind the original change (almost two years ago, now), and how things could move forward.

Where can I find some Docs about the Qynar System?

[Nyr]

Recent Changes:

The Triumvirate meetings in Years 30 and 31 brought several changes to Tuluk that have since become well known.

Chosen Houses are no longer set into predetermined tiers. The individual actions of each House and each House's nobles will determine what ranking the House has. This status is determined at the start of each Triumvirate meeting.

These Triumverate sessions also announced two changes to areas of the city. One, the area formerly known as the Ruins, now cleared of debris, would reopen for development and be known henceforth as the Old Quarter. Two, that the gates into the Noble Quarter would be open to everyone. The City also presented each Surif House with a unique bell made from copper gained in the Copper Wars. Now anyone can enter the noble quarter and ring the bell outside an estate to meet with those within.

Per the same meetings, Tuluk has been divided into several regions called 'Qynar', with regions outside of the city called 'Striasiri'. These regions are governed by noble representatives chosen by the Lirathan Templarate. Those of His Chosen that are governing any of these regions are given authority to pass localized laws and influence their region accordingly.

The current qynars are: Freil's Rest, the Red Sun Commons, the Warrens, the Tribal Market, Poet's Circle, the Old Quarter, and the Vineyards. The current striasiri are the Grasslands, the Southeastern Plains, the Southwestern Scrub, and the Grey Forest.

In Year 38 of the 21st Age, the Tuluki Triumverate ruled to reinstate that treasured historical tradition of Old Tuluk, the Grey Hunt. The winner is given a lifetime grant of a Hlum noble title, as well as a lavish home and other perks.

[Lizzie]

I am really confused on how this works:

Per the same meetings, Tuluk has been divided into several regions called 'Qynar', with regions outside of the city called 'Striasiri'. These regions are governed by noble representatives chosen by the Lirathan Templarate. Those of His Chosen that are governing any of these regions are given authority to pass localized laws and influence their region accordingly.

The current qynars are: Freil's Rest, the Red Sun Commons, the Warrens, the Tribal Market, Poet's Circle, the Old Quarter, and the Vineyards. The current striasiri are the Grasslands, the Southeastern Plains, the Southwestern Scrub, and the Grey Forest.

I'm not asking really 'how' it works, but rather, 'does' it work, code-wise. Are these written authorizations backed up by the code? In other words, if Chosen Governor Jimbob is authorized to pass localized laws in the Warrens, and says "no more wearing of pink clothing on Nekrete!" does he have -coded- authority to arrest someone who is caught wearing pink in the warrens on Nekrete? If he arrests them, is there a place he can take them? I mean do they go to the Tuluk jail in the Heart? Do Chosen Governors even have access to it? Will the *Legion* NPC soldiers gank the noble, or the noble's First Senior Master Henchman, if either of them try to subdue their "criminal?"

These are things I think even common citizens would know...people who grew up in the Warrens would -know- that if they are caught doing something their Chosen Governor has decreed is illegal, that they will be arrested and brought to jail. Or that they will be subdued by a Legion Soldier. Or that the Legion Soldiers will come to their aide if they tell the Chosen Governor to fuck off. Or whatever...I think these fall under the category of "What your character would know about Tuluk."

[Ender]

I am really confused on how this works:

Per the same meetings, Tuluk has been divided into several regions called 'Qynar', with regions outside of the city called 'Striasiri'. These regions are governed by noble representatives chosen by the Lirathan Templarate. Those of His Chosen that are governing any of these regions are given authority to pass localized laws and influence their region accordingly.

The current qynars are: Freil's Rest, the Red Sun Commons, the Warrens, the Tribal Market, Poet's Circle, the Old Quarter, and the Vineyards. The current striasiri are the Grasslands, the Southeastern Plains, the Southwestern Scrub, and the Grey Forest.

I'm not asking really 'how' it works, but rather, 'does' it work, code-wise. Are these written authorizations backed up by the code? In other words, if Chosen Governor Jimbob is authorized to pass localized laws in the Warrens, and says "no more wearing of pink clothing on Nekrete!" does he have -coded- authority to arrest someone who is caught wearing pink in the warrens on Nekrete? If he arrests them, is there a place he can take them? I mean do they go to the Tuluk jail in the Heart? Do Chosen Governors even have access to it? Will the *Legion* NPC soldiers gank the noble, or the noble's First Senior Master Henchman, if either of them try to subdue their "criminal?"

These are things I think even common citizens would know...people who grew up in the Warrens would -know- that if they are caught doing something their Chosen Governor has decreed is illegal, that they will be arrested and brought to jail. Or that they will be subdued by a Legion Soldier. Or that the Legion Soldiers will come to their aide if they tell the Chosen Governor to fuck off. Or whatever...I think these fall under the category of "What your character would know about Tuluk."

Your PC would know that yes, Qynar Laws are real, and if they break them they can be hauled off to jail.  For the most part the Legions would be the one hauling your ass off though.  The noble houses do have security forces in their respective Qynar that can and do have the same authority though.

[tortall]

For the second time: the Tuluki Noble houses are OPEN! Send in a damn app!!!!

[Rahnevyn]

The above statement is misleading.

Just because a clan is listed as "Open" doesn't necessarily mean the staff are accepting applications for new nobles at a given time. What it means is the clan is open for play and has staff assigned (as opposed to "Closed" clans and tribes, which have no assigned staff and aren't open to players.) I can't speak for the staff on Tuluki Nobles, but if/when they're ready to accept new applications, they'll post something.

[FantasyWriter]

I think she just mean more along the lines of: "If you don't like the way things are, quite griping, get off your butt, and do something about it."

[Lizzie]

I'm not sure what the point is in having an "open" status in a clan with assigned staff members, if there are no PCs in the clan and they are not actively seeking new PCs.

Tuluki nobles: open - Mekeda, Onimantu, Wachabe
Tuluki templars: open - Senga, Vanth

As far as I know (and it seems everyone else knows), there are -zero- PCs in the Tuluki nobles. There is one, only partly active Lirathan templar, and one, only partly active Jihaen templar. Between the two templars, they don't even comprise a "reasonably active" single templar combined.

So basically, we're right where we started at the first post in this thread. And I (and apparently others) would like to know, why are these clans NOT being recruited for by the clan IMMs? It's obvious they are needed, and it's obvious that they are wanted, and it is now obvious there are people who would be happy to fill the roles.

Now all we need is for a staff member assigned to those clans to say "Wow - need and interest - let's fill a role!"

[Rahnevyn]

I wasn't really commenting on need or lack thereof for nobles in Tuluk, since I don't staff Tuluk. I just interpreted the comment I responded to (and some others in this thread) as saying "Send an app in now and fix the problem!"

I responded because I didn't want people to get up false hopes or misunderstandings. I'm sure the Tuluki staff will be working on the issue when time permits.

[FuSoYa]

As far as I know (and it seems everyone else knows), there are -zero- PCs in the Tuluki nobles. There is one, only partly active Lirathan templar, and one, only partly active Jihaen templar. Between the two templars, they don't even comprise a "reasonably active" single templar combined.

A note... just because you don't see them running around and doing things doesn't mean they aren't there when you are, aren't there when you aren't, or any other situation like that. 

So, just wanted to say the two templars up there might be very active and at the worst probably make up a "reasonably active" single templar combined.

Brandon

[AmandaGreathouse]

For the record, there are at least 2 Jihean templars. And there have been for a few months.

[Delstro]

My question.

What if the Tuluki Noble applications were open like a Desert Elf tribe? Anyone could app at any time, but it first has to be approved through the imms. I believe that would greatly improve the system.

[Malken]

A note... just because you don't see them running around and doing things doesn't mean they aren't there when you are, aren't there when you aren't, or any other situation like that. 

That's the kind of reasoning that won't get the Tuluk problem solved.

I hope I'm not being rude by saying this, but I think that Jihaen Templars are probably the least of what makes Tuluk what it is supposed to be.

To make Tuluk what it is supposed to be, I think we really need at the very least two -active- Lirathan templars and at the very least three Chosen Nobles.

Saying that "It's not because you don't see them around that they aren't active", when some of the players in this thread are spending 80% of their online time at the Sanctuary and still
never manage to see a Chosen or a Faithful Lady is not very productive to getting the problem solved.

The #1 issue is the need for another Faithful Lady, and I absolutely don't understand why there hasn't been any new request for one in the last six months.

So I'm just going to assume that it's an IC thing and the Nobles of Tuluk share a genetic component with the kanks and are slowly disappearing as well.

[Thunkkin]

So I'm just going to assume that it's an IC thing and the Nobles of Tuluk share a genetic component with the kanks and are slowly disappearing as well.

They're evolving into Cendi.

Shhh.