Animal Bash

[Chronicle]

I would like to draw some attention toward the Carru and Gizhat ability to 'bash' thier opponent, knocking away (in all of my past characters cases) half thier stun. Now in both the cases that i've encountered these creatures, they've been able to outrun me with thier scripts. I stand and flee, and spam the direction that i feld (obviously to try and get away) But they obviously have no lag since they come directly in and bash again. So its obvious that the imm who put it in was looking to give them a better defensive manuever, but failed and just made them way overpowered. It also has no hp damage, so in my opinion I think it's just a waaay overpowered skill. It doesn't take anything into consideration at all, it's so unrealistic, it's something that mek's and bahamets should have, but all this is doing is making an easy mob a killer one. It dosen't even matter how high the PC's agility or Bash skill is, it's non-reversable. One of my characters had exceptional agility and couldn't even avoid it. I just want some feedback, other hunters opinions and such about this, im sure im not the first that's been wondering why it hasn't been delt with. Also you might wanna have someone check the spelling on ferocous - for that is not how it is spelt;)

[Marc]

I'll have to agree.

This new "bash" for certain animals and the skill bash for pc's/others needs to take into account basic offense/defense at LEAST.  And the fact that npcs do not suffer from wait-states (which is total bullshit) from combat moves, they have the ability to repeatedly do the same manuever over and over making this new bash a real killer.

[Eternal]

I've seen carru do something -very- similar, and I'll leave it at that.

First of all, I don't really think you should call Animals Mobs, that just sounds... well, not in the theme. And besides, those two animals are not easy kills, they're pretty big animals that stand as tall as you at their shoulder.

My experience with their technique is limited though, I got bashed by a Gizhat into another room, then was able to flee from there sucessfully. Sounds like a trampling thing that they do. Best be a bit more careful around Carru and Gizhat for now.

[Eternal]

I often envision carru as a mix between a reindeer and a large ox... sound about right?

Yup, sounds good to me. There was somewhere where I thought I saw something like a Carru... really hairy, maybe Starwars? (Not a dewback)

[Delirium]

Any burly, four-legged animal that's as big as you are is going to maul you if you're not quick enough to dodge out of the way - and I imagine that'd take some quick scrabbling off to the side.
As a side note (I don't know if it's been changed recently) but an old 'excellent' agility character used to avoid gizhat bashes on a 50/50 baisis, and carru on about a 25/75. I don't think those odds are too bad considering the opponent (and the size of my character.)

Like someone up there said (I'm too lazy to scroll and look) maybe you'll just want to be more careful. You know, take a buddy with you. Or just hunt with caution.

And yeah, a reindeer/ox sounds about right. Don't forget the sharp teeth.

[Marc]

I didn't realize it was dodgable.  While my experience with them is limited, I have had some run ins with them using a pretty damn experience, high high high agiled warrior who specialized in bash and have nearly been instantly killed from a gizhat who triple charged in a matter of seconds, where the bigger mobs ('mets, meks, and horrors) couldn't even touch him.  That seems wrong in my book, but if it IS dodgeable, then I guess that is that  :roll:

[Delirium]

Heh - well, to be honest, it's been a couple characters back - so it might have changed. Like I said, this was a while ago.

[Chronicle]

Okay, but how about thinking like this? This is a fantasy game, beefed warriors (eventhough smaller than the 'creatures' in the world) are going to be able to take them down, which is why they can get that strong code-wise in the first place. It is just my opinion but if your going to make carru and gizhats that powerful, you should at least make mek's/silt horrors almost indestructable. Also, if the creatures have abilities that powerful, what's holding them back for taking over the humanoid races as the dominant species of the world? I mean hell if you had 5 of those things spam tumbling (I'll just refer to it as bashing from now on) they can take out a small army. Maybe you can make it to where if they tumble with you they either A.) Get major lag, or B.) Get dmg or stun taken away from them? Just some ideas and thoughts to reflect on.

[X-D]

Heh, I have had quite a few chars, including the current one, who routinely takes out gizhat and carru with ease, dodging the bash now and again but more often then not getting hit, I like them they way they are, else they are just too easy, also, if your char cannot take the stun damage safely then here is some newbie advice you will see often on here...Don't Hunt Them Alone.....grin.
, Myself, I have a far greater complaint with the uber fast and powerful tarantula bash:)

[mansa]

I say...make 'em stronger.
I don't think the world is harsh enough.

[Plazgoth]

I have had a few characters who have had no problems taking down carru or ghizhat. It's all a matter of your hunting strategy. If you cannot survive hunting carru/ghizhat hunt smaller animals. There are plenty of other meat/hide producing creatures that will not devastate you. So my vote is to keep things the way they are.

[Rindan]

To add to the what others have said, I have had a character who used to make a regular living off of carru hunting.  He used to take down carru (some times more then one) very easily and very quickly.  Carru are supposed to be dangerous creatures.  Taking one down should be something only skilled hunters or groups of hunters should be able to do.

[Callisto]

My question is: What kind of armor were you wearing when you lost 50% of your stun? My last half-elf was a nothern hunter who started off in leather gear. Since a lot of animals have really high strength rolls (to make up for the shitty unarmed code I guess), she was almost knocked out many a time by a sassy duskhorn or naughty gizhat.

Then I suited her up in better armor and the attacks that used to drop her 30 stun points fell to about 3-7. She had some incredible armor mind you, but the fact remains... if you want to take less damage, wear better armor. Yes it means you won't be able to carry as many arrows or as much stuff back to sell, but thats the way it goes.

[Chronicle]

I have a lot of good house armor, really good stuff that protects me well.
My character is no weakling either, for someone that can kill tembo in the blink of an eye, its intresting that carru and gizhat would give him so much trouble with a simple, implimented script.

[Dan]

Tembo don't weigh 400-1000 pounds either. I see tham as real strong, scaley bulldogs for some reason. I could shoot a bulldog and kill it with an arrow in real life, I could shoot an elephant and royally piss it off too. I don't know, sizes are probably off but my point is that Gizhat and carru are huge, a tembo is small and strong, it can't crush you. I have had a d-elf that fought carru alot, and was only hit by this once. I think it mostly checks agility. My advice is to just stay away from the damn things, they are huge, and can crush you when they get pissed. End of story.

Tembos yes, are described as reptilian bulldogs basically, but I imagine these things to be dense as hell, and could very easily crush and kill you.

[Delerak]

No I think tembo is more like a big fucking crocodile.  Far more dangerous then a carru or gizhat.  Except that the carru/gizhat script makes them more dangerous.  I don't know, I don't think there is any real reason for it to be in.  You want to make them strong give them something more realistic, don't write up a whole new code for them, wouldn't a carru probably use the legs to hit you?  And carru are pretty big,(like a bull moose) but if you can imagine that much bulk, 1400 lbs or so, they would not be able to charge down people like they now do with the code that is in.  At least if it stays in have it factor in the other persons bash, I mean I don't even know why this code is in if you can just give them the normal bash skill.  Want them harsher, fine, up their offense and defense, kick them a higher strength if you want, but this is just a tad bit over the edge.  It's not the fact that I can't kill them, they are quite easy, it's the fact that they have the ability to kill you in 3-4 hits if the script does it that way.  Plus if you are already on the ground, it still lands with this charge thing, don't know why it does that.

[Plazgoth]

I think the fact that it can kill you in 3-4 charges is great. It keeps you on your toes and makes your character have to think quick and act fast. I can totally see a large bull mosse charging at you with his antlers and bashing you into tommorrow. And once you are on the ground he will do it again lowering his head and charging. To me the script makes the carru seem a lot more real. If you ask me I think there should be piercing damage from teh antler as well. The way I look at it is if you are dumb enough to hang around after the carru has charged you a couple of times and get killed the carru did it's job of protecting it's territory.

[Delerak]

Remember, that it is also a fantasy realm.  A guy who can stay toe to toe with a bahamet while his friends flank it is a pretty tough guy.  Suddenly he goes to fight a carru and the script kills him in less then 5 seconds.  Really now, that is a bit too much, I must say.

[Cenghiz]

I'm a newbie but... Are scrabs tougher or jozhals? I'd say jozhals because both can't even scratch me but it takes a longer time to kill a jozhal for me. Because they may dodge easierly. So for example (exampling with D&D ruleset) someone with strength of 18 but dexterity of 6 may be killed by someone with strength of 6 and dexterity of 18. We all understood in the conversation that you are TOUGH! But you're not agile enough. Let it stay as it is, I want to hunt them, when I become a little bit more experienced. Looks like a tricky and fun hunt.

[Rindan]

Remember, that it is also a fantasy realm.  A guy who can stay toe to toe with a bahamet while his friends flank it is a pretty tough guy.  Suddenly he goes to fight a carru and the script kills him in less then 5 seconds.  Really now, that is a bit too much, I must say.

I am not sure exactly what you are doing, but I used to kill carru for a living with one of my characters.  I killed hordes of the creatures and I never once came even remotly close to dying to one.  Sure he got knocked down from time to time, but for the most part he could slaughter two at a time without much trouble.  I know that a bahamet could easily destroy him.  I love the scripts.  I think they add flavor.  Personally, I wish that more animals had interesting scripts like carru do.  If carru are too tough for you, then just don't fight them or get a friend.  Seems pretty simple to me.  I don't go mek hunting for a reason.  If carru are too much for you, then don't hunt them.  It is possible to hunt them, and hunt them alone.  It might be that for whatever reason, you are just not one of those people able to do it.  Not everyone can be a terror with his weapons.  A creature should not be scaled down because one guy is having a hard time killing a large and very dangerous beast.

The scripts add flavor and they do not make carru impossible to kill.  Hell, they are not even remotly dangerous to people of some skill.  If anything, I would like to see more scripts in the game like what carru have.

[Delirium]

For the record, my ranger at 16 days could tear a carru up in mere seconds. Now, if it charged her and got her on the ground, then yeah, her ass was out of there... ability to kill it notwithstanding. Just don't take dumb risks. Know your limits.

She could also parry or dodge bahamet attacks from time to time, but it still tore her up.

I say keep it dangerous.

[Delerak]

Carru are not hard for me.  I'm not saying they are hard.  I'm saying the script is overpowering and should be looked at.