Author Topic: Half-elves and orders  (Read 2858 times)

Teleri

  • Posts: 192
Half-elves and orders
« on: December 01, 2002, 08:11:36 PM »
Since half-elves are supposed to have such a lust for independence, typically, and disdain for working in a group, would one really follow orders well, or at all?  For instance, if a half-elf of the typical mindset joined a military-type organization, how would he/she take it, and would he or she (realistically speaking) follow the orders given to them?  I've been trying to figure it out for a while, but so far I have not come to any sort of compromise that would allow a half-elf to allow itself to follow commands and regulations so strictly while maintain its desire for individuality.  Heck, would half-elves even join a military organization in the first place?

crymerci

  • Posts: 1565
Re: Half-elves and orders
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2002, 09:02:40 PM »
Quote from: "Teleri"
Since half-elves are supposed to have such a lust for independence, typically, and disdain for working in a group, would one really follow orders well, or at all?  For instance, if a half-elf of the typical mindset joined a military-type organization, how would he/she take it, and would he or she (realistically speaking) follow the orders given to them?  I've been trying to figure it out for a while, but so far I have not come to any sort of compromise that would allow a half-elf to allow itself to follow commands and regulations so strictly while maintain its desire for individuality.  Heck, would half-elves even join a military organization in the first place?


The lust for independence is only one part of the half-elven personality. The need for acceptance and approval is the other part. If a half-elf was treated well, I think they could be very loyal and follow orders, generally speaking, but might occasionally just 'take off' for awhile, or chafe if they felt they were controlled too much.
I think we might need to change World Discussion to Armchair Zalanthan Anthropology.

Angela Christine

  • Posts: 6595
Yes!
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2002, 09:21:01 PM »
Quote from: "Teleri"
Since half-elves are supposed to have such a lust for independence, typically, and disdain for working in a group, would one really follow orders well, or at all?  For instance, if a half-elf of the typical mindset joined a military-type organization, how would he/she take it, and would he or she (realistically speaking) follow the orders given to them?  I've been trying to figure it out for a while, but so far I have not come to any sort of compromise that would allow a half-elf to allow itself to follow commands and regulations so strictly while maintain its desire for individuality.  Heck, would half-elves even join a military organization in the first place?


Absolutely.  Half-elves have two driving forces in their psyches: independance and acceptance.  Usually these two desires mutually exclusive, so one is dominant at a time.  

So for your military example, we assume the half-elf is off beinging independant, and he starts longing for acceptance.  So he joins up with an organization.  Is just being accepted into the organization going to be enough acceptance to trigger his need for independance?  Maybe, but not usually, because when you first join most organizations you are on probation and are not totally accepted.  Since his need for acceptance hasn't been met, he may be the most eager-beaver, spit-and-polish recruit the organization has ever seen.  More than anything he wants to fit in, he wants to be accepted.  At some point (anywhere from a few weeks to a few years later) his need for acceptance will be satisfied, perhaps he graduates, gets a permotion, gets a pat on the back for doing a good job, gets invited out for a drink with the guys, gets a good-natured prank played on him, gets put in charge of something important -- it could be anything, or any combination of things.  He gets that warm fuzzy feeling of being "one of the guys."  

Then his itch for independance starts acting up: instead of feeling accepted he starts feeling smothered.  Maybe he resents having to have the whole platoon along everytime he wants to take a dump.  He has to prove to himself that he doesn't need them, that he would be just fine without them.  Maybe on some level he wants to reject them before they reject him.  He needs to be independant, how he expresses that need is up to you.  He may become insubordinate, he may quit, he may ask for a leave of absence, volunteer for a dangerous scouting mission without the gang, or he may just walk away without a word to anyone.  

Of course once he gets his independance again he starts missing the guys.  He misses the comeraderie, and the security of knowing someone is watching your back.  Eventually his desire for acceptance again becomes stronger than his need for independance.  And the dance goes on.  If he left the organization, he might try to get back in.  If he tried to assert his independance by becoming rude and insubordinate, then he might become especially ingratiating in an attempt to regain the acceptance of his peers and superiors.

It can be sort of like bipolar disorder (manic depression) except that instead of cycles of mania and depression he has cycles of neediness and independance.  Each cycle could last several years, a month, a few hours, whatever makes sense for the character.  If the cycles are very short the character may just seem moody: when a friend walks into the bar he offers a friendly greeting and a free drink, then a few minutes later he slams his empty glass onto the bar and leaves without a word.  If the cycles are a little longer he might get a reputation for being unreliable, unstable or indecisive.  With very long cycles, each cycle taking years, he may not seem to be RPing properly because he "always" seems to be looking for acceptance (untill the day when he walks off into the desert alone for no apparent reason).

Every dwarf has a focus, but it is different for each dwarf.
Every elf has a "focus," or at least a primal urge that is somehow tied into stealing or scamming people outside his tribe.
Every half-elf has two: Be Independant and Be Accepted, and at times one or the other may be just as strong as an elf's urge to steal or a dwarf's focus.  The pull between the two keeps the half-elf in a state of flux.

That's just my take on it, I am sure there are other ways to RP it.  My way seems to lead to pointless death sooner or later.

 8) Angela Christine
Treat the other man's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with."     Henry S. Haskins

Eternal

  • Posts: 828
Half-elves and orders
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2002, 09:22:13 PM »
Why do you always quote the entire first post in your message?  Especially when you're the second poster?  O_o

creeper386

  • Posts: 2665
Half-elves and orders
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2002, 10:35:07 PM »
Because they are lazy!!!

Oh and Adult Content hit it RIGHT on the head.

8) Creeper who can't think of nothing else good so is sticking with his Adult Content.
21sters Unite!

crymerci

  • Posts: 1565
Half-elves and orders
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2002, 11:36:03 PM »
Quote from: "Eternal"
Why do you always quote the entire first post in your message?  Especially when you're the second poster?  O_o


Uh, I didn't realize I had a habit of it. So I went back to check...and I don't. Were you wanting to contribute anything to the discussion at hand?
I think we might need to change World Discussion to Armchair Zalanthan Anthropology.

  • Guest
Half-elves and orders
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2002, 08:30:57 AM »
He might've been using you in a general sense, as in "you all", "ustedes" etc. Because I've seen lots of people do it too.

The Lonely Hunter

  • Posts: 884
Well...
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2002, 12:47:01 PM »
Does it really matter how they desire to quote? I would love to see a couple posts actually stay on topic but I guess I am contributing to the offtopic discussion by posting this as well... =)
"People survive by climbing over anyone who gets in their way, by cheating, stealing, killing, swindling, or otherwise taking advantage of others."
-Ginka

"Don't do this. I can't believe I have to write this post."
-Rathustra

Rindan

  • Posts: 2825
Half-elves and orders
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2002, 06:36:56 PM »
One thing I think a lot of people miss when playing a character, especially one of another race, is subtly.  I think this is because people like to see their personality ‘pay off’ quickly.  In other words, they are in a hurry to show that they are indeed playing the right way, and so run their personalities in the extreme and do it in a very obvious way.  That isn’t to say that that is bad things, just that there are other options.

Take the case of a half elf who joins the Byn for acceptance.  Now, you can play the obviously bipolar half elf that joins, becomes one of the guys, then suddenly quits.  However, there are other options to consider.  You might join and be a perfect ‘yes sir’ soldier.  As time goes on, and you start feeling the need to be independent, you might begin to resent the limits placed upon you.  You can run off, or start making trips into the desert alone, but just because your half-elf wants independence, doesn’t mean that he is irrational.  

Instead of doing things that are obvious acts of insubordination, he could subtly try and gain independence.  For instance, he might stop referring to his superiors as ‘sir’ whenever he thinks he can get away with it.  One might do chores more half assed.  If the half elf is in a position of power, the half elf might start exerting more authority and tightening his grip on subordinates to prove that he is in charge.  One might rush together missions intentionally, taking only the bare minimum number of soldiers to come with him.  There are a lot of ways of gain independence while remaining in an organization and not risking insubordination.  In fact, I would go so far as to say that subtly in trying to gain independence is far more interesting then simply vanishing one day.  If you vanish one day people might wonder where you went for a few days, but often times you are quickly forgotten.  A character with slowly building personal issues that affect the organization can have an impact upon far more people for a longer period of time.

Swordsman

  • Posts: 174
Half-elves
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2002, 11:43:59 AM »
One little point on half-elf RP: you have to remember that this bipolar disorder RP idea is just one guy's idea of how you can play a half-elf's need for independence and acceptance. Now, I'm sure this guy played half-elves well by the imms' opinion otherwise they wouldn't have put up his doc on the website, but you have to remember this isn't the only way you can RP a half-elf. We all know that elves don't ride and always look out for scams, and we all know that all dwarves have a focus at any given time, but how a half-elf acts to gain independence and acceptance is pretty much up to you. All the official docs say (i.e., the help file on the half-elven race) is that half-elves have both a need for independence and a need for acceptance, they don't say you have to play it as a bipolar disorder. I'm not saying I have 100 wonderful ideas on how to RP this thing out, just that I don't think you should limit yourself to thinking in terms of a bipolar disorder.

Military organisations: if it's a real military organisation then IMO there's going to be one basic rule ... when someone higher ranked than you gives you an order, you better do it or else you get a kick in the backside. Now, this could and probably often is a lot due to the people in charge getting a buzz from having power, but there's one very important thing this kind of training does for you: it trains you to do something when it has to be done, whether you feel like it or not, whether you're bleeding or not, etc. This is kind of important in a combat situation. There's none of this silly 'I don't feel like doing that' rubbish on a battlefield, and the closer you can make training like the battlefield, generally the better results you'll get in an actual battle. So, my take on this is that if a character joined a military organisation, he/she'd either learn really quick or be kicked out really quick. Regardless of race. While I think elves would do pretty badly in a situation like that (which isn't to say they don't have discipline, just that their effort would tend to go into situations where they're being led by tribe members rather than some loud-mouthed sergeant they couldn't care less about), I don't think we can make a blanket prediction for half-elves on that. All IMO.

Swordsman

Dazed and Confused

  • Posts: 73
Half-elves and orders
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2003, 11:02:06 AM »
A half elf who seeks acceptance would follow the orders most of the time.

But the independent side of the half elf might to to cut corners or disobey some orders.

This conflict could cause the half-elf to tend to always remain at the lower end of the organization.

Sincerely,

Dazed and Confused Half-Elven Private.