Lodgings, read before voting please

[spawnloser]

In more clans, one of the 'perks' almost always offered is free lodgings.  Now...this would be awesome, if it wasn't already free to quit out in a tavern.  Seriously, I know people in clans that offer this and they still quit out in the tavern all the time.  Personally, I find this wrong.  It isn't a perk to have free lodgings if public lodgings were already free and just as safe.

Personally, I have two ideas for a solution...

First, as many other MUDs I've seen have, have a charge for using public quit places that should charge...like any tavern/inn like location would normally.

Second, which would address any quit location, have there be a chance of losing items to theft while logged out due to your character being asleep and people having access to your unconscience person while your character is so.  Now, before people harp on the, 'your character isn't necessarily asleep when you're logged out,' thing, your character has to sleep some time...and if you're not going to have it sleep regularly while you're logged in, they have to make it up some time.  Possibilities within this include modifications to the class based on factors like race or certain skill or stat levels...even have the chance differ based on the exact quit location.

Of course, if anyone has an idea that I haven't listed, please vote other and elaborate.

[Krath]

I voted for Other, for the fact and reason being, Just because you are paying for a place to stay does not mean you are still not able to get stolen from. I think both should be implemented, but then you come to the constant issue which is brought up, Realism vs. Playability. Is it realistic? yes, however, if I lost my custom sword of uber death to tektolnes +5 +5 that I waited 5 ic years to get and lost it while I was logged off, you can bet your life I would be pissed. Is this realistic? Yes, but I think people without places to sleep safely, would stop ordering items from merchants, which could possible lead to a great decrease in playability for players of that class.

I dunno, it is a toss up, you decide for yourselves.

[Carnage]

No.

[Quirk]

I voted "other" because I don't happen to believe either "solution" is a good one. From an OOC perspective, frequently people's barracks or estate or apartment is on the very far side of town from the tavern they frequent. The sheer inconvenience of spending an extra five minutes journeying back across town, particularly in that long-roaded monstrosity that is Tuluk, would mean many players who did have accomodation would still log out in the taverns and suffer the consequences. Moreover it would drive up the demand for PC apartments, which is high at the best of times, impose a lot of stress on any poor Nenyuk PC having to deal with it and force the imms to build much more by the way of housing, particularly in the poorer areas of town. Paying sid isn't really an option, because then you cannot log out unless you have the money - leading to even more linkdead newbies. Having things stolen is more viable, but worsens the problem by far for those who have places to log off a long way away - the risk of doing what is OOCly needful is now undetermined.

In addition, you would now be penalising people who log in and out frequently over those who stay in the game all day. That's a lesser issue though, and could be worked around.

I vote the poll should have had a "neither" option.

Quirk

[cisalus]

I voted for other.. It may be a bit OOC over IC, but I think the reason that taverns/inns/etc don't cost anything are either because A) The player might need to quit his PC uber quick due to OOC murderers/bombs.. etc emergencies, or B) "Here.. pay us 5 'sid so you can lay your head down and have your tembo'b'gone flaming iron shortsword of water producing stolen by another commone"

Basic, but they make sense to me.

[X-D]

Other, IE, NO.

First, Quitting out is OOC, So, why should somebody need to pay IC money for an OOC convention?

Second, a High percentage of people that play play down to the wire, when you have to leave, you have to leave, at which point refer to the first point.

[Louten]

Sometime ago it was implemented, a couple years ago, that you had to pay some coins to quit out in the Sun King's Sanctuary. Don't remember if it was even implemented in the Firestorm Pub, or anywhere in Allanak, but everyone got super pissed and it was quickly removed. If the super pissed had to do with it being quickly removed, I don't know, but that's what I assumed at the time.

[Crestor]

As others have said, quitting is primarily an OOC thing.  Sometimes when you've gotta go, you've gotta go, heh.

And also - quitting out doesn't equate to your character going to sleep.  Sure, maybe it costing money to sleep in certain places could be conceivable...but your character isn't asleep the whole time you're offline.  Why charge an IC fee for an OOC change?

[JollyGreenGiant]

No one's mentioned this yet either, but consider the bad effect on characters that are not yet established, and even more so for new players.

[UnderSeven]

I voted for other because I think things are fine the way they are.  The fact is when a clan says 'lodgings' what they really mean is a free place to hold your extra stuff.  Yes, that is what you pay a nenyuk for, that is what you join a clan for.  You can carry stuff on your person and not have to worry about getting robbed, but without 'lodgings' you can't have extra stuff that doesn't fit in a pack or another.  It's pretty straight foward and doesn't need to change.

[My 2 sids]

First, let me say Kudos for you for bringing this idea up.  I think shelter is
often over looked when role playing.  I've tried to bribe people, saying I'd pay for their stay in a nicer tavern.  I've tried to recruit using the idea of having shelter.  Both have flopped because people take the OOC advantage of logging out anywhere, for granted.

However, I usually chulk paying for such things the same as paying for a song in the barrel.  They are "vnpc" coins, if you will.  Although I'd -love- for people to role-play more realisticly when it comes to shelter, I don't think it's a good idea to take from characters who are already loosing out on having free room and board.

[Angela Christine]

Next week half the new characters are rangers who run outside the gates to quit out.  

I can see some quit rooms charging a fee, but not all of them.

The Gaj - it's just a flop.  The don't charge to use their kitchen, so they probably aren't going to charge to pass out in the dorm.  It keeps people from sleeping in the main room or piling up right outside the doorway.  They make thier money on the ale and shit you bought before you passed out, and the hair of the dog you'll buy when you sober up.  From the room description it looks like they don't provide anything in the dorm that would cost them money, just a mottley collection of filthy blankets and sleeping mats.

The Barrel - this isn't even a sleeping area, it is strictly an OOC quit room.  Ok, you *could* sleep on one of the couches, but that obviously isn't thier intended purpose.  The Barrel is a tavern and casino, not an inn.

The Traders - The sleeping area here is limited, it is clean, and I believe the room description suggests private rooms are available.  I can definately see them charging something, but I'd prefer them to charge virtual money.  

Red Storm - I forget the name of the tavern.  Like the Gaj, this seems to be a flop room.  No perks, lots of vermin.  They make their money selling spiced ale and over-priced food in the common room, and the flop provides a place for spice hunters down on their luck to rest up for the next exciting encounter with a Silt Horror.  It also provides a relatively safe place for spiced up residents and newly arrived escaped slaves to calm down.  I wouldn't be surprised to find the Sand Lord's government owns or subsidizes this place.

The Firestorm Tavern - a public flop since the destruction of old Tuluk.  I can't see them starting to charge money now.

Bah, I'm getting tired.  My point is that there are only a few Inns that provide private sleeping rooms, and the ones with public sleeping rooms don't seem to spend much (anything) on maintenance.  Forget a mint on your pillow, these guys don't even air out the bedding (washing the sheets would be out of the question, for obvious reasons).  A few public quit rooms are not sleeping areas at all.  

What happens if you type "quit" and you don't have any money in your inventory?  Does your character have to just stand there linkdead until you, the player, has time to come back and make enough money to quit?  More linkdead zombies, yeah, that's attractive.

If they were going to charge, particularily for using unlocked public dormitories, it would make more sense to me to have a bouncer, doorman or innkeeper charge people to enter the sleeping area, rather than collecting when they quit out.  That way people wouldn't get surprised.  Something like the process for renting a private room or stabling a kank, where you would use a command to pay the fee and enter the sleeping area.

On the whole though, I don't think quitting should cost money.  Pay for your lodging with the virtual money you make doing virtual work durring the time you are logged off.  As an independant I have at times paid the 100 coins to rent a private room, not to quit but to sleep and heal from a bad injury without losing my pants.  I prefer for my virtual sleeping to be paid for with my virtual earnings.

AC

I voted other aka NO for a couple reasons.

There is no chance to track down the thief. Your stuff is just magickally gone. Ate up by the VNPS's. No chance to get it back. No way to complain about it.  

As for paying, I just assume its a custom of this culture for the taverns to offer free sleeping areas to attract customers who spend their sids in other ways in the tavern. Basically they just provide a room, unguarded so it doesnt cost them anything and they get people hanging around. Now it would seem that a really classy tavern wouldn't have a sleeping area. Rich foks should have their own tent/hut.

I think the issue here is playability.

Now if a tavern offered a room that had guards that would whack thieves, where you could sleep if you had too. Might be nice. Less pricey than a private room but more people using the services.

[Sanvean]

I'd rather not do either of these because of the difficulty it would pose for new players, who already sometimes have a hard time figuring out where to log out.  I don't want to throw the free/nonfree distinction in there to complicate matters.

[jmordetsky]

I think you should be able to quit anywhere. Like a ranger in the desert.

I don't see why quitting needs to be in a safe room. Techincally you're not 'going to sleep', you're life still carries on....

For example for me, I don't assume that because I'm not logged on all day that my char sleeps for most of the week yea?

To me it's a sort of 'Fade Out' where my char proceeds to go with his day to day, but as a vnpc.

Why not allow logout anywhere?

[__Torax__]

Well, I voted for other because there isn't an option of "HELL NO THIS IS REDUNDANT!"

[grog]

Why not allow logout anywhere?

I sometimes get annoyed when people log back on after a crash, so-and-so appears out of nowhere.  I realize that it's not their fault, and thus I'm able to forgive them.  I think it works great the way it is now.  

Though I'd love to have Rangers to have the ability to create, temporary, quit spots for other guilds. (only at places he could normally quit) Something that would last an IG hour at the most.  Of course I can see how that could be abused, but I still like the idea.


the dusky krath-eyed ranger says in sirihish
"This place should be perfectly safe, let's set up camp here."

the doe-eyed newbie exclaims in sirihish
"Oh thank you kind Ranger sir!"

the doe-eyed newbie departs from the world of Armageddon.

the dusty krath-eyed ranger thinks
"Now that he is sleeping, I'd best get out of here before the (insert violent beast here) that uses this cave returns.

the dusky krath-eyed ranger chuckles as he stealthly moves west.

the doe-eyed newbie enters the world of Armageddon

the doe-eyed newbie glances around, rubbing his eyes.

the doe-eyed newbie thinks
"Oh, that nice ranger fellow hasn't woken up yet, maybe I'll make some breakfast for him.

the doe-eyed newbie lights a bone torch

the doe-eyed newbie is torn into bloody pieces by (insert violent beast here)

[Socko]

I'd be opposed to the idea of charging for a quit-out.

I'd always seen the fact that there were shitty havens provided as a free perk in hopes to attract customers as an exotic concept-- it was something different, alien, and it just -fit-.

On the other end, what if you could actually rent rooms with beds in certain inns, such as the Trader's and Sanctuary? You'd get something real for your real 'sid.

[crymerci]

I voted 'other' aka 'no'.  Most of my reasoning has been discussed, primarily quitting out does not always equal sleep.

However, I'd also like to point out that the free lodging offered by clans is not just a free quit room.  More importantly, it is a place to store belongings, and to actually sleep more or less unmolested.  It's not so much of an OOC perk as an IC perk.  The quitting-out part isn't the perk, and in some cases, such as those already discussed, people don't even quit out there, nor should they feel obligated to.

[Anonymous]

For Allanak,  I think a charge for quitting out in the Trader's would be cool.  And the Barrel probably shouldn't have a quit room.  It's just a lounge from the looks of it.

Probably a charge in the Sanctuary too, but a freebie sleep down in the Firestorm's pit.

I've always felt weird quitting out in the Trader's.

[Krath]

yeo

[Lasakar]

I voted for other because I think things are fine the way they are.  The fact is when a clan says 'lodgings' what they really mean is a free place to hold your extra stuff.  Yes, that is what you pay a nenyuk for, that is what you join a clan for.  You can carry stuff on your person and not have to worry about getting robbed, but without 'lodgings' you can't have extra stuff that doesn't fit in a pack or another.  It's pretty straight foward and doesn't need to change.

He said all...

[sacac]

Ok.. if you did actually sleep in one of thsoe rooms, then there is a good chance that you got something stolen
Hell it would be like one of those credit card commercials.. So..
quit out= does not neccesarily mean that you are sleeping.. we don't really sleep most of our days except for a few daws where we are awake all the time.

[creeper386]

Other = No

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Grog, post your idea in a seperate thread...You'll get few responces to it here. Incedentally, I like it.

To the original topic, no.