Trapping! (Different then you may think)

[Gilvar]

I always thought it would be neat if rangers... maybe a subguild, could set up traps. Not the way you may think (which most people seem to think I'm talking about like flash-powder trapping, etc.) But more in a hunting sort of way. I figure it would be a more predominant trait in the north, where smaller game is more... alive. But I figure it wouldn't even have anything to do with 'actual' creatures, but focus alot on maybe virtual creatures.

Basically you'd set up traps...

Like pitfalls, rope-snares, and maybe more complicated as you move on in skill. Basically pitfalls and things would be 'hidden', and people with scan, or search might be able to find them. Unless the pitfall had been triggered, at which point you'd see a big hole in the ground. And depending on the creature's saving throw, they may or may not escape. At which point, unless your nearby, another creature may come and eat it, or another hunter might come take your prize.

You'd need tools to do the pitfall, maybe a pile of grass and a shovel if your in the grasslands. Maybe some branches and twigs and a shovel if your in the forest. Maybe some bone slats and sand if your in the desert.

Rope snares would of course involve rope. And would probably be much more used in the forest. This may involve the hunter waiting nearby with his rope for something to trigger it, at which point he pulls. And would make the 'hide' skill actually useful in the wilderness.

Then of course simpler ones like tripfalls that involve a concealed role. More for the forest.

And then maybe 'spike-pits' that basically has you burying spikey sharp things under a small layer of dirt or grass that would disable the target if they stepped on it, (a saving throw would be thrown to see if they even go near it, and then another to see if they avoid it.)

Basically I think it would be neat! and add another facet of playability to hunters.

[Bogre]

Oh gosh, it would be twinkable beyond understanding.

Think about setting pitfalls up several deep around the exits to cities.

Or think about setting a spiked pitfall to catch those rushing guards that run outside for the free eq once they fall to their deaths.

*shudder* Good idea, but I believe it would take a bunch of code to make it untwinkable

[Forest Junkie]

Doubtful. Simply make it impossible to trap a road, since it is too "out in the open".

Only sufficient brush and growth would allow a successful trap. Granted, twinks may abuse it, but that can always be said of every skill in the game. Shrug, it sound's cool OOC'ly, but will it add to the game?

[X-D]

Um, Bogre, it's no worse in twinkability then existing skills.

And not hard to code the restrictions.

For instance, maintained roads are gonna be out for most traps, No deadfalls, rope snares or pits, take a look at the roads near the cities and you will understand why, plus, odds are, the delay for something like a pit trap would be long enough that if you did, for some odd reason try to dig up the road, long before you would get a poke on the shoulder, turn around and see some militia and probly a very annoyed templar.

Though, If I was the templar, I'd have to do the Cool Hand Luke deal.
snicker, anyway.

I've always thought rangers should have some trapping skills myself, maybe even give some miner skills to the hunter sub, rebel, forester, scavanger.

I would also add that traps set by people of very low skill levels might not be hidden at all, maybe that is a partial fail to the skill.
Full success means only people with scan/search can find them.

Also, either as the same skill or another, you would need disarm/dismantle traps.

The last thing(s) to cut down drasticly on chars that are very good at the skill or there being hundreds of traps being laid all over the place is to require that they only can be set outdoors and have a VERY long delay, maybe even require both hands be free to set them. That would cause people to have to be very careful or dead when they are setting this trap without somebody to guard them and a tembo trots in.

(edit)
And somebody asked if it would add to the game...Yes, I think in many facets, Ever had a char contracted to catch something live and bring it back? I have, thats a lot harder then it sounds, unless it is some little harmless creature. Bounty hunters (I've played them) Raiders, normal hunters even, Hey, not everybody wants to play the melee hunter type.

Also, it would help increase pc vs pc conflict in the wilds, something many people want, while adding avoidable dangers that might not have been there the week before, also might make that merc group make sure they had a ranger with them, rather then knowing they can just melee thier way to where ever.

Also, if the skill was set up, the char should be able to pass his own traps with no problem, hell, I can think of many times I'd have set a trap someplace just so if I end up with a T1000 on my ass I can pass by the trap in hopes of it snagging the tracker long enough for me to get away.

[Stroker]

In response to Bogre:

but focus alot on maybe virtual creatures.

Could it be that he meant it would only catch virtual creatures? Possibly, you set up a trap that any npc and pc can just walk through or by, but if you come back in a day or .... a hundred your trap may contain a spawned npc, now dead or what not.

[ashjpd]

Hmmm...
Maybe the trap could be seen by pcs....
But not by animals and such...
So you could walk into the room and see:
A small, pit has been set here as a trap.

So you automaticly miss it. I think that if this would become a skill, you would start out with small traps for mice and stuff, then when you get better and better at it you can start catching things worth while.

Shrug*

[Gilvar]

Well I mean it COULD also catch virtual creatures. Like if you leave a deadfall out in the forest long enough an animal might fall in. Because there just isn't enough actual npc animals to represent the vastness of the wilderness.

[Gilvar]

And as for penalities, it would take a good while. Be draining for stamina if your digging a pitfall, and would not work all the time. Like what if your pitfall is triggered by a bahamet who just walks over it? It would be ruined and no other animal would fall in. So you basically just wasted the effort. But on the off chance of success, it would be great. Especially for skittish animals, it would provide a new way to kill beside throw/archery/chasing them down.

[ashjpd]

oh okay, and the more advanced you are in making traps would enable your chance of a virtual animal falling in and such...

[Northlander]

Well.. Here's another version of the suggestion, one that I could see in the game:
There would be a trap_crafting skill and the possibility to buy and sell traps. The traps are items which are placed with 'set trap' or some such syntax, and then there's a chance at coded intervals for creatures to spawn within them. Creature type would depend both on trap type, possibly simply by 'size', as well as the area in which the trap was set. The state of the creature would vary with trap type. Maybe the actual setting of the trap goes off the 'hunt' skill, placing the trap on the paths of creatures, and a high skill would then increase the chance of things spawning inside of it, or the frequency of the spawn rolls. A trap could never hold more than one creature, and set traps would be hidden from people who don't 'scan' and walk into to the proper 'room'. It would never trap NPCs or PCs.

I think it'd add to the game. Maybe there are other and better ways to implement it, though.

[ashjpd]

yah... and maybe if the trap doesn't work, it could say some things like:
A small trap is here, covered in bite marks.(telling you the animal bit through the ropes)
A small trap is here, smashed into nothing. (A bahamet stepped on it)

I am sure there are plenty more possibilities.

[X-D]

Personaly, I have no use for traps that cannot effect pc/npc.

At that rate, I might as well continue as I am and just emote the traps and such.

True, at starting skills, small traps, more often vis to everybody and even if they do 'catch' somebody it would only be a miner annoyance.

But you could work up to large traps.

On review, I think it should be a skill set.
disarm/dismantle traps: this would allow you to disarm and dismantle traps, your own and others, recovering the materials, though, still a chance of simply destroying everything or even setting it off.

Trap crafting: Allows you to make what basicly are trap kits.
example
craft log rope spike
You could make a log deadfall kit from this.

Trap setting:
Traps would need to be set in a direction, not just on the room itself, so, if you set deadfall south, then later somebody arrives east and leaves west, nothing happens, but if they come in from the south or leave south...grin.

Also, Alarm traps would be spiffy, simple noisemakers to let you know something sneaky is wandering about.

[Rindan]

I personally love the idea.  I would probably avoid trapping large creatures though.  Consider the limits a Zalanthas person has and consider what sort of traps are reasonable.  If you want to build a pitfall trap big enough to kill/capture anything large, you are going to have to spend a good day working on it, and a human is just going to shrug and crawl out if the initial fall is not lethal.  Far more reasonable would be traps designed to snag smaller creatures.  A snare is a pretty effective trap if you don't mind waiting a little while.  Even a pitfall trap is reasonable if you are not going for anything too large.  Simple cage and bate traps are also entirely reasonable for Zalanthas technology.

If you are inventive with the idea, you could even come up with some interesting Zalanthas only traps.  A trap bated with water could be a very reasonable trap to snag some desert creatures.  Perhaps pouring a little water into the soil around Red Storm would cause some small underground creature to come up and investigate?  A little crappy meat and you might very well be able to snag a scavenger.  There is a great environment to play with, and I think you could have a lot of fun developing small traps and bates.  

I would avoid traps that could take out NPCs and humanoids.  Those I think would reek a little too much of D&D.  To build a trap to kill a humanoid with Zalanthas technology is no small task.  Hell, we struggle to do it today with modern day explosives and guns.  I imagine building something to kill a humanoid with Zalanthas technology would be extremely labor and material intensive.  Imagine how hard it would be to build a pit big enough to kill a human (assuming it has spikes or what not in the bottom), move the dirt, find materials to cover it without it looks very suspicious, and then hope like hell someone walks over it.  That just does not seem reasonable.

[Callisto]

I could go either way on it.

I'd imagine it would turn into one big twink fest, but I guess thats par for the course lately.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

People worry way too much about twinking.

Now, I like the idea to do the VNPC animal capturing. But I'd say that even at 100% max skill, you should only catch a critter 50% of the time.

[Forest Junkie]

It should also depend heavily upon -where- exactly you put the trap.

For instance, placing a trap atop a sandy dune in the middle of no where is likely to get you nothing more than a little sand beetle, where as trapping upon a heavily used animal trail would lend far better results.

Alot of interesting possibilties indeed.

[X-D]

Well, Rindan brought up a few points that I had not, true, traps that can hold/harm the really BIG creatures would be pretty silly, digging a pit to catch a bahamet would take one person say, oh, around a month or more, and the, how would you cover it?

But, for anything the sizes of the pc races, traps are easy, and I really do not understand how anybody thinks they are so hard, you would be suprised how many of the traps you see in movies like predater and rambo actually work and have been in use on earth for many thousands of years.

Snares, depending on the environment can hold even larger animals for a while, say, up to horse size and do not have to be spring loaded or anything, though a non-animal would not be held for any longer then it took to cut the rope, but still useful in an ambush situation.

In a wooded area you have many types of snares and spring traps along with pungee pits and the like, very easy to make.

Also in wooded areas and mountain type areas are deadfalls, come now Rindan, How hard do you think it really is to prop something big and hard up high in a tree/cliff install a 'pin' to hold it in place and a tripline? Sure, skill and knowledge involved on proper placement and such, but materials are just laying around.

Snares and pungee pits can be used effectivly in deserts also.

Saying that simple traps, many used by primitive tribes IRL today and for thousands of years would be beyond technical capability for a world where the people can build intricate HUGE wagons with levers and such, many types of crossbows, but nobody would ever think, hhhmm, hide this crossbow in this bush, tie it in place and make a tripline to pull the trigger, look, a trap, Oh, a loop of rope tied to a tree and held up a few inches from the ground with twigs so something stepping into it would pull it tight is far from rocket science, Hhmm, can't do that, but we have bombs.

[Delirium]

I like it. But.

I've seen something almost exactly like this implimented in another game, and while the traps weren't lethal to people, it was very annoying to do this:

>e
You walk east.

You stumble in a trap and fall to your knees!
You are stunned.

You are no longer stunned.

>stand
>e
You walk east.

You stumble in a trap and fall to your knees!
You are stunned.

You are no longer stunned.

>stand
>n
You walk north.

You stumble in a trap and fall to your knees!
You are stunned.

You are no longer stunned.


... Yes. Very, very, very annoying.

[Crashloft]

This idea has MANY possiblities.  I like it.  Very good.  What more can I say?

[X-D]

On that other mud, how long did it take to set a trap and how much prep work did you have to do?

[Delirium]

About three minutes, give or take.

I do like the idea, as long as it's not a simple matter of wandering out into the wastes and setting a trap in every 'square' to up your skill.

[X-D]

One reason I suggested it being a two part skill, need to get items to build trap, then need to craft trap kit, then need to set the trap, ever tried to build a campfire in game?

[Delirium]

If it was like that, I'd support it, definitely.

I can see uses for it, from a simple ranger trying to catch his afternoon tregil meat to a gang of raiders laying in wait for their target. I'm assuming there'd be different traps that you'd have to craft, and then 'set up' with the skill. And of course all sorts of fun backfiring upon the trapper could happen.

[Northlander]

And I would say that forage seems the likely skill for finding those necessary items, coupled with items one might find inside 'plant' objects, and 'hunt' is a good enough skill to base the setting of the trap on, for reasons mentioned earlier. A trap-crafting skill would though, in my mind, have to be created. Once again, I'm trying to work the rough idea into something that might see implementation.

I don't like the idea of NPCs and PCs falling into the traps. It requires both a whole lot more code and a whole lot more twinkage-countering. For an IC reason why, we can bring up that good old argument of the massive size of outdoor rooms. Maybe if someone followed the hunter he could fall into the trap. Or if there was a path through the forest or over the sand. The wind rarely allows for such paths, and coding an exception for the former is rather a waste of time.

In regards to balance, I think having semi-expensive traps, not too easy to get one's hands on, catch virtual creatures could allow for that southern hunter to survive. To avoid northerners running around placing and emptying fifty traps a day, besides the price involved, there'd be time lag on both placing and emptying traps. I would also make some of the simpler craftable varietes useable only once. The trap-crafting skill would branch from the trap-setting skill, in my suggestion 'hunt'.

This together with my previous post in the thread details the idea as I can see put into the game. Some suggestions get out of hand and just end up very unlikely for implementation. I don't see wilderness traps that catch PCs and NPCs as something the staff should spend ages on coding. Is it really so pointless if it can't catch PCs?

[Lazloth]

I don't like the idea of NPCs and PCs falling into the traps.

What is the point, then?  Arm is not an exercise in masturbation (for me); if you want to emote a virtual trap and capture virtual game, you can do that already with the tools at your disposal.   If you want to erect a logjam barricade past that first turn in the road, if you want rig your apartment door with a crossbow bolt, etc., you're completely at the mercy of other players to roleplay events.   I think you can base from the threaten thread just how far that can be extended..