An Idea...

[Durant]

This thought came to me in the shower, I know it's scary I'm thinking about Arm in the shower.

Not sure if this has been talked about, or even implimented since it's been some time since I've run a character in the northlands, but I'll throw out the suggestion anyway even if it -is- a re-tread.


Currency-
Currently the one Currency used throughout the known world is the naki obsidian coin.
It seems to me that with this being the case New Tuluk is still greatly dependant upon the naki economy. In an effort to change this and create their own individual economy, wouldn't one of the best courses of action be to create their own hard currency?
Probobly using a substance that is readily available in the north.

*a wooden Tuluki coin anyone?*

The was I see it possibly working out is that each of the individual major cites currency would be worthless in the other.
ie.. Tuluki currency, worthless in Nak, and Naki worthless in Tuluk of course.
This could lead to a large number of possiblities. A job in the field of currency exchange everyone?

I could see it now, a large currency exchange market in Luir's outpost, changing sid for 'ood (or whatever better nickname could be come up with.) Of course these currency exchanges would be done for a price.

Each of the smaller villages could decide independantly what currency they would like to adopt as their own, and if one currency is used more than the other, of course the value of that currency could be higher.

Maybe it'll take 2.5 'oods for 1 obsidian coin?

Thinking of the back room dealings between the higher powers, offering sweet deals for the exclusive use of their currency. (The possibilities could be endless)

I'd love to flesh out this idea even further if their is any intrest or even (gasp) help out if the idea would ever be implimented. I'm just typing this before class, but I'd love to hear feedback.

*Durant can't wait for the day when economics infiltrates Zalanthas.*

[John]

This thought came to me in the shower, I know it's scary I'm thinking about Arm in the shower.

heh, I do that all the time.

I like your currency idea, don't think too many people will though and I think it'd be a bitch to code. However i love thinking of ideas merely for the sake of thinking of them.

I think the banks would become a coin exchange place, and in Tuluk they'd give 1 'ood for 10 'sid. In Allanak it'd be reversed, in Red Storm it'd be very close to 1 'sid for 8 'ood and in Luir's Outpost it would be 3 'ood for 1 'sid. That's because each place is dependant on the seperate economies. However you might not want coin exchanging places in every city. Also, this enables PCs to be coin exchangers themselves and people will go to them for the better prices, however having automated places helps out people who are on during off-peak times.

Just my 2 'sid or 20 'ood

[Durant]

If Allanak and Tuluk didn't recognize eachothers currency a PC would have to exchange before they arrived in each respective city.
Luirs anyone?
Or else on the black market of course.

[John]

If Allanak and Tuluk didn't recognize eachothers currency a PC would have to exchange before they arrived in each respective city.

I think Nenyuk or any of the large merchant houses would love to do it if they were allowed too legally. Imagine, being able to buy 'sid for really exhorbiant prices, they'd be ecstatic.

[Durant]

The gruffy mercenary slams his fist down as he recieves 1 sid back from the 20 'oods he offered the teller.

I don't know if it should be called an 'ood, that just has a ... I don't know, strange sound to it. I'd rather it be called on odd, you know, derivitive of wood, ood, and made to flow.

"Hey, I'll slap ya five sid for an oddie eh?"

I love this idea. And to those of you who think it'd be hard to code, I know of at least 1 other mud that does it. (They have 4 or 5 different types of currencies in various areas, and several denominations of coins even in one area, so it's pretty realistic except their exchange rates don't change. Bleah.)

[Angela Christine]

I'd go with ceramic, not wood.  A good ceramic is more durable than wood for small objects like coins.  You can either use a glaze (which can chip and look crappy after a while) or dye the clay itself before firing which gives a more subtle and permanent coloration.  Another advantage to clay is that you can use a clay press or mold to churn out hundreds of raw clay coins using unskilled labor, while wood or stone require hand carving.  The firing is still a pain in the ass, especially if you don't have a team of krathi, but on the whole ceramic coins give you many of the same advantages of paper money.

However, if I were Muk I wouldn't make it a high priority.  The north has more obsidian coins than it can ever use, it just stands to reason with the skewed balance of trade.  

What the north has to trade to the south:

Exotic animal products (carru, tregil, bahamet, etc.)
Herbs (many)
Wood and wood products
Fruits and Nuts
Grasses and vines (good alternative to leather for ropes and baskets)
Stone (alabaster, marbles, onyx)

What the south has to trade to the north:

Exotic animal products (Mekillot, scrab, silt horror, etc.)
Herbs (few)
Stone (Obsidian, sandstone)

The south really wants wood, herbs and any excess food products they can get.  The north likes obsidian, which is heavier and sharper than wood, and there is probably some exchange of animal products, but the south doesn't seem to have much that people in the north are drooling over.  So when a southerner buys northern goods he will usually trade obsidian coins rather than swaping goods for goods.   At the end of the day Tuluk must be importing obsidian coins at a frightening pace, and will soon need to dig a mine just to have a place to store them all.   Meanwhile Allanak's main export product is obsidian coins, the work of thousands of slaves digging obsidian out of the ground as quickly as possible.

Angela Christine

[Shamsiel]

Of course, there would have to be a carefully maintained balance, lest inflation would go rampant, and all the wealth would be accumulated in one region. I personally have nothing against, all the wealth in 'nak being concentrated in the hands of the nobles and merchants, an everyone else being slaves or barely surviving freemen, that is how it should be, but if every tuliki merchant would become as wealthy as your average 'naki noble, something is wrong.

It would be interesting to have the north generally wealthier though, would make for great contrasts n vs s.

But, my point of this was; The south need more production. If the north is focused on wood, pottery and herbs, what can 'nak (and storm) have to compete?

Give them other, or more valuable, recourses. Perhaps clothing is mainly from the south for whatever reason; they might have silk, or just a culture of clothmaking.
Make obsidian more valuable, not as coins, but as a material. Make obsidian weapons the sought after, and soon there will be a great export.
Good leather might be hard to get in the north, or perhaps chitin is hard to get? Perhaps the north is so much damper that most chitinplated creatures get chitin-rot after a while, or some such. Or give the south a monopoly of kanks. Perhaps kanks wont breed among the shrubs and trees, or only a few southern houses know the trade of breeding kanks?
And of course slaves. Your avarage 'naki is poor, prone to get indepted and therefore enslaved. Slave caravans marching northwards would be a stunning sight, and could include many groups of players; slaves, merchants, guards, perhaps templars.

Good Leather hard to find in the north...most hided creatures are in the north..why wouldn't we have learned to tan them.

Sorry to attack one point but come on.

[creeper386]

I think it might be possible for the north to make their own currency just to try and be out from under the south alittle more... But most likely it wouldn't happen right away... Probably a good long way down the road... Heck if all else fails someone make a small craftable item and start using it for trade!


It may take awhile for it to catch on... Then probably would have to be changed slightly so the government people had in charge of making it... But you never know...

Creeper

[God]

Of course, there would have to be a carefully maintained balance

I think we have to be realistic and realize that if this did happen, the North would begin to emerge as economically more powerful pretty quickly(perhaps this is already happening?) and the South would have to scramble to get back ahead.

[Impska]

I've just scanned the posts, so if someone else has mentioned this, sorry...

The problem with wooden or ceramic coins is that they could be easily minted and counterfeited. For this reason, inflation would be high and the coins would end up virtually worthless. In order to protect their assets, people would use obsidian coins anyway, since they retain their value. If they can't, then they would revert to a barter and trade system with raw goods. When inflation is high and you can't count on the worth of your currency, there's no incentive to exchange goods for coin. In order to get the full value, you would need to exchange goods for goods.

A successful currency must adequately store its value (which inflation can ruin - you don't want to exchange goods for money one month and then find your money worthless the next month); and it also must be hard to copy (or else excessive counterfeiting will take place and lead to inflation).

These days, we've been able to convert to paper and deposit money due to an adequate government and banking system which backs and protects our currencies. This still fails in some countries, Argentina being one example, in their recent economic crisis.

FYI, some other properties money must possess:
- It must be readily acceptable.
- It must have high value relative to its weight (otherwise it's a nuissance to carry around)
- It must be divisible (ie: for transactions of small value)

Whatever the nenyuk accept and trade in, the people will use. Especially the wealthy. If the Nenyuk are backing southern sids, then everyone will use that. Also there would be no big deal about the Nenyuk getting large shipments of the coin if needed from the south. And anyway, no one attacked the Nenyuk during the war, so they still have their stockpiles to supply the north. In my opinion the Nenyuk is what keeps all trhe currency uniform, with the idea perhaps of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

[Vositus]

I'd go with ceramic, not wood...

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[Dan]

I've seen -a- painted wooden coin in game... no idea where it came from though. Just something I would throw out there.

[gfair]

If new currencies are to be added, I'd also suggest counterfeit skills for thieves.  If the North is famous for its merchant crafters of high quality, it would be easy to counterfeit obsidian coins.  Obsidian shipments to Nak could be stolen, the stuff makes its way up to Luirs or Tuluk chunk by chunk, and those chunks turned into valuable sid.


Hmm... this also raises the issue of how the value of sid is stored - obsidian  coins have no real value.  They are not backed by any other precious material, and they have no intrinsic value because they can't be turned into much at their size, save for the teeth on a toothed sword, and even then they would be extremely fragile.

So what exactly is the value of sid?  There must be some value - surely sid can't be fiat money, enforced by law, because different towns might as well be different countries.


The issue of money in a game can quickly grow into all kinds of issues related to realism.  It might be simple to just forget multiple currencies and whatnot.  Attempting to track values of multiple items with as many items and stores that there are in game can only lead to pricing errors due to sheer numbers - pricing errors are as good as bugs for people to exploit.

[Angela Christine]

What is the intrinsic value of gold?  It is pretty and doesn't rust or tarnish, but that is about it.  It is unpleasantly heavy, and too soft to make useful tools or weapons out of (I suppose you could use it in making blunt weapons).  You can't eat it.  You can melt it into pretty shapes, but you can do that with tin or glass, and they aren't considered valuable.  People sometimes scoff at the natives for having traded unprocessed gold ore for copper pots, metal tools and guns, but in a sane society a copper pot should be worth more than a shiny rock.

Gold has many of the same characteristics as lead, but is worth much more.  Why?  Because we all agree that gold is valuable and lead isn't.  In Zalanthas everyone has agreed that obsidian coins are valueable, even if the coins themselves aren't useful, so they are valueable.

Oh yeah, and an insanely powerful (and possibly insane) God/Sorcerer/King has declared them valueable.  Judging by the gigantic dragon statue he has enough metal to have issued small metal coins, but he chose obsidian.  Why?  I dunno, and I'm not going to ask him.   :wink:

AC