City elf overhaul

[Dresan]

On the note of city elf overhaul, i noticed it is in now progress. Some minor tweaks to city elves have been done like running on roads outside of cities but what does an overhaul look like to the staff?

[Hulrouk]

On the note of city elf overhaul, i noticed it is in now progress. Some minor tweaks to city elves have been done like running on roads outside of cities but what does an overhaul look like to the staff?

These project(s) have really only just begun and aren't in a state where we'd like to promise anything about them as of yet.

I can say that we may not directly translate ideas from feedback threads into the game, but we are using them to determine what goals we should have for elves in Magefall and onward.  So keep feedback and concerns rolling in those threads if interested, but stay tuned for developments!

[Dresan]

I'll take this opportunity to summarize some ideas and offer up a few  new ideas .First let me begin by saying that the game world in general suffers from design ideas that promote segregation instead of integration.

I've explained those ideas here:Design ideas for a smaller scalable world

The reason I am bringing this up is because in the past the usual go to solution for making city elves more playable is start a new elf-only clan. To me, is had always been a terrible ideas, now more so than ever with a potentially smaller player base,. However, usually this idea is brought up mostly because of problematic aspects of city elf documentation, which I propose should change in order to better allow for city elf integration.

Let me take a moment to clarify I am not suggesting that that ignorance and hate between the races disappear, instead I want to promote the hatred, betray and corruption of this game by forcing humans, city elves, etc to have to work together in the same clans, just like they currently have to do in the byn.  Heck, both races should support cities making it illegal for different races to engage in obscenity by forming intimate relationships with each other, though half-elves themselves wouldn't be criminals or illegal to exist they should be stopped and the location of their parents questioned since they would be criminals for having created him (consenting or not). That said, I think further integrations between city elves and existing clans would be more beneficial than segregating them in their own tiny clans.

However, this has not been easy to do, they have great difficulty participating in the clans they can join not just from a coded perspective (crappy stats, no ride) but really a documentation one.

1. They have trust issues(like who doesn't?), and engage in trust tests + they are tight-knit within their tribe.  I think the past has shown that this causes issues within city elf clans and tribes since people won't engage in betray and corruption against their own people. This add little in terms of benefit for the game since who really trust anyone day one, and adds troublesome factors later on once 'trust' within tribe or elf groups is established.
2. They have a fascination with thievery which is supported not only in the documentation but coded. I am sure this was cool once upon a time but thievery is not just hard to do properly from a coding perspective but having virtual things go missing makes players/staff go into rage with staff beginning to watch you to count peeks per hidden emotes and players going to ridiculous lengths to avoid losing their virtual coins. Thief roles and stealing in general is a good part of the game but the role is complex and riddled potential grief from both players and staff, it isn't something that should be tacked on any character carelessly, especially a potentially new player. Not to mention this adds another barrier to just integrating them better into existing content.

Overall, the city elf is needlessly complicated compared to dwarves and half-elves and it further add challenges to helping city elves and the player behind it find their place within the gaming world that adds to it, rather than takes away.The current city-elf documentation is often costing the game additional player made content that should would come from a player taking the time to play and build up any other race. Because someone playing an elf, is one less player that can join certain clans or work with certain people or even become a competent leader. The same cannot always be said about half-elves and dwarves, even if its not the same level as humans, they often have opportunity to shine within any clan they are allowed to join.

The city elf documentation needs to be simplified and current supporting skills code removed so that anyone can pick up the race and can have a unique but fun experience while adding value to the game world. I would remove the two elements from city elf documentation mentioned above. City elves could have friction or  even betrays even between family/tribe, maybe desert elves would be different in this regard but that sort of mentality shouldn't exist in city elves, allowing for more variety when interacting with others even of their own kind.

As for the benefits and bonuses, city elves lose a lot by not being able to ride or get on wagons/skimmers, and their stats though not as debilitating as before still just add to the challenges of playing them. In comparison to others, Dwarves are rather OP in terms of benefits, and there are posts from staff telling people to lay off playing half-elves, outlining that neither of the other races lack players who enjoying trying them.  Lets keep that in mind as I propose these ideas:

1. Perfect night-vision -- This ability would really be interesting, not only would it open up a unique RP experience worth giving up ride for, but it would promote hatred and mistrust between the races. For example, if a crime happens a night it could be blamed on elves, not just thievery but anything really. At the same times, militias and other combat clans would find having them useful for scouting at night or keeping guard at night, even if they had to be a bit more patient with them for travel. You could see some elves people just prefer to do things at night, adding to a creep factor in the eyes of other who shut their doors and windows. While some beings could see at night, not all animals/creatures would be able to do so perhaps it would be safer for city elves to travel/search at night, and imagine slowly adding night time behavior for npcs or creatures over time. All this would begin adding a new unique experience and potential for additional layer to the overall game. It would also be nice to have access to some experiences without needing to be mages.

2. City Elves should recover small bits of stamina while standing around idle ---While not as good as sitting, resting or sleeping it should still happen if they've been standing around long enough (there should delay if they have just moved).  This would help them participate more in clan activities (like the byn) if they are taking their time.

3. City Elves should be better at walking in the wilderness --- Not by much, i think its about 5 stamina cost to walk/move in a desert room. These costs should just be reduced by 1 . Not exactly great but a small improvement over other races. And again this is only walking, not even running....nothing remotely close to what desert elves can accomplish.

4. City elves need the ability to travel between Luirs and Allanak. Whether roads are rebuilt over 50 years or sand becomes more hard packed over well used routes that allow city elves to somewhat use them as city roads....it doesn't matter how but it is the single most annoying aspect of city elves, the inability to participate in common patrols within their existing clans.

Out of the four main ideas I offered above, three are merely lackluster ways for them to participate in content that is open to anyone that can ride mounts or wagons. The only ideas that would open up interesting new and unique experiences with playing a city elves would just be the first. That said, the idea of night vision would just add a wonderful new mundane element to the game not currently easily experienced outside of magick even though torch/stealth comes somewhat close.

These changes don't even have to be a  retcon, there could have  always been a culture of city elves that valued stealing/tribe mentality, but over the last 50 years they could have become the minority, making more general minded city elves the majority and they began taking jobs in various clans who saw some small value in them. Additionally, some city elves always had the ability to see in the dark as part of a random mutation. Over the last 50 years, their births became more common for some reason and so its not all city elves just a healthy portion now that have the ability. Our character would just happen to have been one of those elves born with the ability, its become common knowledge after 50 years but part of the job interviews could ask to make sure the elf they are hiring is one of the 'useful' ones.  Same approach with some elves being better at walking in the wilderness and regening stamina.

One last slightly random idea is that dwarves are resistant to both magicks and poisons(in addition to high endurance) and I really think elves should have some sort of additional resistance. I can see them being resistant to both magick and psionics that targets the mind, beyond wisdom(which is not really great). I won't add this to the above since its wishful thinking, but wanted to write it down anyways.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I like a lot of these ideas. I might also suggest that during Magefall, a few elves gained the "trust" of some prestigious Highborn employer, maybe even because they participated in the defense of or the murder of said mages, and now have limited access to further opportunities, much like mages.

Gameplay wise, I in particular like the night-vision idea, and the idle-stam gain. I dunno about perfect sight, but low-light, like storm-vision, where you see the heights and weights of shapes and maybe know the room's name, but still need to type exits to know where to go.

I wouldn't make most elves shift, but I'd make "rogue" elves possible. If every elven PC is a rogue elf, right on, but most elves would still be the traditional elf. Most NPC interactions with elves would involve traditional elves, and that might be interesting for tribeless elven PCs, typically viewed by the NPC population as false elves, or traitors.

[Dresan]

Code Select Expand

Country roads, take me home
to the place I belong.
Yay, a road!

I would still recommend that staff consider removing the troublesome thief and loyalty elements from their documentation and/or code, bringing them a bit more in line with the other races and allowing them to integrate better into existing groups and clans. Again this doesn't have to be recon, some good ideas above how to achieve this with no impact or re-writes to the world.

I want to also note that in the past classes like infiltrator have skills to compliment city elves race coded skills but since classes should eventually get revamped at some point in the far future it would be best make these changes now. Frankly, peek on infiltrator makes no sense. 

[shadeoux]

Similar to desert elves hide sneak skills in the desert give
City Elves the same (if they don't already get it, My city elves
guild always had started with both). Also give them
palm/plant/steal automagically too if they are to stay in line
with current documentation.