Discuss your feelings on the changes to the game

[Pariah]

Figured if I make this post with the intention of discussing feelings, maybe I could look through the Q&A thread without having to pass four posts of "My feelings are hurt." or pure saltyness.

Please post all your feelings posts here.

[Pariah]

I personally am torn, but not to the extent some of you are it appears.

I wish that they would just alter the game in real time, closing off some areas with landslides, earthquakes and all that shit.

I wish that lore was expanded and updated so it made more sense for the game now with 20-30 players on PT versus the 70ish we had when I started playing.

I wish the players didn't riddle the staff with pointless, frivolous shit to the point they don't wanna work here no more.

I wish a lot of things, I think the path they are taking is more manageable for the handful of staff they can keep, it's something that Halaster and Usiku are pumped for and pumped staff are good ones, after all they aren't going to code a bunch of shit if they aren't invested.

Most of all I wish everyone would stop doom and glooming every single change that's made to the game.

[CirclelessBard]

I think things will turn out okay in the end. I also think that leaders of the community - which is to say, staff and prominent, long-time players - take the playerbase way too much for granted when it comes to how willing players are to put up with upheaval and change they were not consulted on.

A lot of the sentiment I see that relates to players always being willing to come back after extended breaks and long-term change feels a bit presumptive. Everyone has a limit to how much inconvenience and setback they are willing to take before they decline. While something has to give, and I think this is generally the right direction, it feels jarring.

I just hope that we all understand why people have sore feelings about it and we don't treat them dismissively as calling it "doom and glooming every single change that's made to the game" would imply. This isn't just "any change". This is by far the biggest change to the game since Armageddon became an RPI.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I think this is better than watching the playerbase and staff bleed until the game is no more. Does that mean it will ultimately be successful? Not necessarily. But I'm heartened that we're trying something at least.

Honestly my biggest worry is the reaction of the playerbase, such as those ragequitting or announcing that the game will die. If you don't give Armageddon a chance, of course it's going to die. Are those long-lived characters that many of us never achieve anyway really so important to you? Is the idea of being able to play in multiple timestreams and locations not the least bit enticing?

Other than that, yeah. Some discussion would have been nice before implimenting something like this. I can't help but wonder if by talking it through, players and staff, we could have found a better way. Better as in more likely to succeed.

[DustMight]

I would have preferred an epic clash of dragons and armies and in the middle of all that someone hits the kill switch and ends it all. Clean deaths are the best. This feels like a long and drawn-out illness with no one wanting to talk about the inevitable.

[Triskelion]

Armageddon needs something like this if it's going to survive. I can't say I'm fully confident that it'll come to fruition - and if it doesn't, that's probably the end of the road for this old game - but if staff is as dedicated to it as they say, it just might. It doesn't have to go the way of Arm 2.0, which was clearly far too vast and unrealistically ambitious a task to ever be completed. This has a better chance of getting done.

It will take more of an effort than seems to have been made in recent times, though. I've long been disappointed in the near-total absence of any signs of staff presence in the game, and the stagnation and lack of building blocks for plots that resulted from this. If the burnout and apathy can be solved with a change of scenery, that's great. However, if this new project is approached with the same halfheartedness, it's hard to have much faith.

The game has been described by staff as 'circling the drain,' and that's true, but I feel like too much of the blame has been placed on the dwindling player numbers. I don't think that's the cause of the game's problems. That's a consequence of what's been wrong in recent years. There has been no meaningful story. There have been almost no events that can be used to build roleplay upon. Players have had nothing to work with.

Things like playing in a clan for months without ever seeing an animation, a staff echo, or any other indication that the clan's appointed storyteller is active at all. Countless mini-projects that are launched and then seemingly abandoned to fizzle out without ever having accomplished anything. Entire playable areas having had no story material from staff for so long it might as well have been never. These things have driven players away. The game has not become stagnant because players left. Players left because the game became stagnant. It didn't exactly start this year, or last year.

There's every possibility that this can change if the seasons bring renewed enthusiasm and inspiration from staff, but it's a change that does need to happen in order for it to work out. Players also need to become more willing to engage with the game as a whole, but players can only do as much as is possible with whatever they're given to work with, and if they're given nothing to work with - which has largely been the case in recent years - it's difficult to find inspiration for truly worthwhile roleplay.

[Lizzie]

I feel disappointed about the idea of prolonged downtime. I feel somewhat disappointed that the initial change will occur so close to the beginning of the new year. But the changes themselves, I think are really interesting and intriguing. I love that what I do in the current version of the game, can impact what the next version looks like, or even possibly become a catalyst for a season-theme change.

[Riev]

I am concerned that there was so much miscommunication in staff land that there were open rolecalls for pretty high-visibility and high content roles that now have 30days to "get it done or be wiped".

Combined with a historical inability to meet time goals, where we now must ask staff to help us finish out our own plots? It takes over a week for a simple report to be even ACKNOWLEDGED, and I have 4 weeks to finish my storyline.

Ouch.

[Kialae]

Damn guys, I know y'all wanted to force store me but this is going a bit too far don't you think?

[MatisseOrOtherwise]

The whole 'get it done in a month or get wiped' thing is. Rough, considering I've been unable to find any of the 8 people (or even 3 of the 'types of people') I've been trying to find for two months now :V
I guess having staff willing to just. handwave and push things forward for me would be helpful
but then having that story immediately rendered pointless and forgotten to the winds is
rough, also.
But closure-and-forgetting is better than just. Being rendered invalid on IC *AND* OOC levels.

[Kavrick]

Sad.

I was really enjoying my character and had long-term plans. Now I'm just not playing because there's no point.

[Diesel]

I would rather have staff completely out of the game world, except for npc animations and admin stuff like roles and custom craft, leaving all plots to the players, maybe have role calls for specific plot characters who have secret plot directives. All up to the pc how to complete them. Then staff could just monitor and not have to expend a lot of energy. Leave it to the roleplayers to roleplay. Allow for higher ranked roles, from the sorcerer kings themselves on down. Add in automated systems to help with a smaller playerbase, like adding a hiring npc for GMHs and militias like they have for the Byn. A package delivery system, maybe a game mail system to pass messages to offline players that can be ic or ooc depending on needs. This would allow communication without knowing the ooc name of the player.

[Lotion]

I am not worried about changes ruining my enjoyment of the game. Some of the things I enjoy most about this game are so inherent to DIKU that I cannot foresee staff ever removing them, barring a full blown engine swap.

[slipshod]

I am concerned by how capricious and arbitrary the responsiveness to player feedback appears to be.  From the outset we're told "it is not a democracy" and given the impression that the decisions have been made, and while we can chat amongst ourselves for our own amusement, we will not be affecting staff decisions by doing so.  Then we talk amongst ourselves and now it looks like part of the new Seasons approach is going to be modeled on some Star Wars mud as a result.  Is that the best idea?  Maybe.  Who knows how many other ideas could have been put on the table if people didn't operate under the impression it would be pointless and/or unwelcome?  If staff was open to player feedback on this, it should have been invited from the beginning.  If staff was willing to take player feedback into account, it should not have been discouraged from the beginning. 

If anyone searches, you will see I have been consistent with this concern for years: seeing big changes come to the game as a result of a staff person reading a post that almost seems pulled at random from the crowd of posts.  It ends up feeling like a crap shoot and a matter of luck and timing, when we could have a more organized way to invite and capture feedback.

I just really wish that if our feedback was actually welcome, that could be made clear instead of this contradictory approach.

I'll just add:  my motivation has taken a hit because it feels like we're in 'sudden death' mode now, where my only chance at preserving not only my PC's legacy but that of the entire clan, is to survive until shut-down day.  If I typo or die to a random scrab now, that's the end - no time to start a new legacy.  It feels like the smart move is to hold the ball and run out the clock rather than try to make another play.

[Riev]

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

In an effort to reduce staff workload, staff are adding to their workload and making promises that historically have been difficult or impossible to keep.

In an effort to not write paragraphs, please excuse my blunt execution:

Staff as a whole do not have a good track record with providing entertaining RPTs, and when they run HRPTs there is very little player agency involved. Maybe this will change, but writing GDB posts about virtual events that players had no part in is NOT what we're here for.

[Pariah]

I have to say, as critical as I am of staff decisions from time to time, just talking shit about them over and over is probably not going to help anything.  At the end of the day they got the staff accounts that can do shit and make the decisions good or bad.

I mean, I'm optimistic that it's either gonna work or it's gonna crash and burn so spectacularly that it will at least be a nice explosion to witness. Like when you see a horrible car accident that you know people died in, but it's still interesting to see the carnage?

Nothing we say, no amount of textual crying or stamping our feet is gonna change what they wanna do.

[burble]

Feels like acceptance that things are not going to get better.

I still think the game has a lot to offer and my suggestions are to focus on making peace with the angry ex players (so reddit reviews can be an asset) and making sure the game is relevant with a younger generation (maybe less about rape/race hatred in the docs and more emphasis on elites vs poor). Also, make sure each code change is about making the game more FUN to play. Start out with a few maxed out (for the class/subclass) bread and butter skills like forage.

They could have brainstormed more - Make Stienal appear out of the sands and populate it with PC sorcs and mages or whatever. With, a common enemy to all civilization, Tuluk and Nak would have to bury the hatchet or perish. A plot twist could push players closer together and still retain the old world and customs. I mean a Nak pavilion in Tuluk and vice versa, tense.

I am not good at this game. I have a 10 days old pc (not played time) that still has some starting gear because I can't seem to make money. No point in continuing to struggle to get him useful now. With a time limit, grinding becomes more important, not less.

[Kaathe]

I have to say, as critical as I am of staff decisions from time to time, just talking shit about them over and over is probably not going to help anything.  At the end of the day they got the staff accounts that can do shit and make the decisions good or bad.

I mean, I'm optimistic that it's either gonna work or it's gonna crash and burn so spectacularly that it will at least be a nice explosion to witness. Like when you see a horrible car accident that you know people died in, but it's still interesting to see the carnage?

Nothing we say, no amount of textual crying or stamping our feet is gonna change what they wanna do.

OP starts a thread to talk about our feelings and then tells us expressing them is meaningless.

I mean yeah, everything ends in the heat death of the universe. My feelings still happened and you wanted to talk about them. 

Anyway I feel schadenfreude but at myself.  Is that weird?

[papertiger]

I mean, I'm optimistic that it's either gonna work or it's gonna crash and burn so spectacularly that it will at least be a nice explosion to witness. Like when you see a horrible car accident that you know people died in, but it's still interesting to see the carnage?

You're a joy and a delight. *eyes roll out of head*


I think it's nice they're attempting to bring people closer together, but sad others are feeling like their stories are being cut off or that they'll be unable to engage with the parts of the game they love. I hope that they feel the community here is worth returning for. I like the RP better than everywhere else I've tried and I'm a bit gutted people are giving up on it. I understand it, but I selfishly want them to stay so I can continue to write stories (however insignificant) with all of them.

I think a several-month-long shut down will dwindle the amount of people interested in returning to a very small number. Or that the staff will decide we're not worth it and just bin the entire thing and close down the game forever. It's difficult not to be a little fatalistic toward some definite end since people repeatedly bring up "muds are dying" in the discussions.

TLDR: I like the changes, but I'm fearful people will leave.

I would like to know where people plan to rp in the interim if anywhere so that I can cling relentlessly to their heels, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to ask and worried that asking will encourage people to just peace out forever. I'm a little dramatic like that.

[Cowboy]

I've played for around 22 years and have not had a character for a day or two, at the most, in that time.  So... any length of shutdown is a shit show for me.  I have tried to log into my current character but just haven't had the heart to play.  I hope I will still be interested in Armageddon when it resurfaces but I just don't know.  I need to find some other outlet, to take up my time, now. 

[Dar]

Whoa.  This is hardcore.


So, I'm not actually playing the game. In truth, I haven't for years. For different reasons.

I'll admit, I will create a character in the next season. Maybe even 3-5 characters if lifespans are short. 

And after that, if experience proves meh, I won't ever return.  Which isnt a big difference to now as I don't even really play anyway. But Armageddon will always be in my heart.  The new season will either reignite the passion, or be my final closure.  Both possibilities are positives to be honest.

Its a giant risk. Its basically swim, or die hail Mary for Armageddon.


There are positives to this change. Individual characters ilicit less passion. People will be attached less to their alter personas and yet eager to weave the story.  Because the story might survive the season change, while the character won't.

There are negatives as well. Less passion, means less interest. People refrained from starting characters until their cgp regenerated. Imagine dying a month away from season end and choosing not to begin new PC.

A diffeent mindset would be needed for a game like that. Less focused on character and their personal stories and more focused on the story of the entire season, in which each player is a part of, but not the main show.

Staff better be able to provide closure at seasons end. Summarize and reveal plots and stories thats been done by players. Total reveal in a way that builds the story and makes the players feel like their participation mattered

Players would need to change too. Less focus on leaving a coded impact  (I want to build a hut!) And more focus on leaving a good story that entertains and amazes other players at the seasons end.


Or we could all fumble it tremendously. By staff failing to maintain the burden they are foolishly placing onto themselves or players refusing to leave their comfortable, slowly dying, sand pit that they've been gradually decaying in the last few years.

In my view. I would definitely return to the game and do my best to make the gameplay awesome. For myself and other players. But if the game fails to maintain my interest, it would be the cure that helps me move past Armageddon forever.  For there will no longer be the ol' routine I can return to for some mindless fun.

I wish Armageddon, it's staff, and the players good luck. This will either turn things around wondrously, or be the game's last page.

[Master Color]

I think all the howling from players is hard to take seriously. Many of these players gleefully enjoyed ending another character's story in ways that are wholly callous and arbitrary. And then they complain the loudest when their story needs to end? Give me a break. The hypocrisy is unreal.

The changes coming are arbitrary and risky. I also don't have complete confidence in the staff implementing them. But I think they should try. It's not like anyone is actually dying for real.

[MarshallDFX]

OP starts a thread to talk about our feelings and then tells us expressing them is meaningless.

Yes.. I'd like to divert this thread to a safe space to grieve the game as it was known please.

As well as celebrate any future possibilities

[Dracul]

OP starts a thread to talk about our feelings and then tells us expressing them is meaningless.

Yes.. I'd like to divert this thread to a safe space to grieve the game as it was known please.

As well as celebrate any future possibilities

Absolutely ingenuine way to start a thread.

Organizing the threads between questions and complaints/resistance is one thing but the language used in the OP is clearly condescending.

Although it fits with the tone of the conversation. Seasons could be great, but the way it was handled was consistent with a disregard fo the players.

[slipshod]

Seasons could be great, but the way it was handled was consistent with a disregard fo the players.

Just to reiterate, I agree with the reasoning behind these changes and think the changes could be good.  My issues are with how it has been rolled out.