Authorize/Allow

[Anonymous]

I can see a couple of uses for a command such as "authorize" or "allow."

The first would be if someone is passed out and has smelling salts in their pack..it's an OOC command that would "allow" the target of the command to remove and replace garments on the enactor, without having to resort to the steal skill. It could also be used to "allow" the target to pick up the enactor if they're badly hurt or, again, passed out - without having to worry about the subdue command and the ensuing crim-flag.

It would put the target at additional risk because he won't necessarily know who it is that's trying to get their stuff or their person, but I can see in desperate situations where it could be useful.

The second would be to target an NPC soldier to "authorize" specific people access to places that they're guarding. Such is the case for an Aide, who isn't part of the military, gaining access to their guarded apartment. As an Aide you wouldn't be clanned military, so the guard won't recognize your code to allow you to pass. But with "authorize" or "allow," the templar would do something like:

Authorize Joe-Aide East

And thus give any soldier guarding the east door permission to allow Joe-Aide through, at any time.

It could be toggled off if the Templar learns that Joe-Aide is really a sekrit spy, or if he learns that Joe-Aide has an unscrupulous brother named Joe-Aide who wants to get his hands on the templar's phat l3wt.

So before I idea it, what do you all think of this idea? What obstacles do you see in it that would make it a bad thing, or what other things do you think it could be used for?

[Quirk]

Firstly, you don't need the steal skill to remove things from someone who's unconscious. There's no need for an "allow" in that case. I don't know how subdue on an unconscious person works at present - it may well not raise a crim-flag. Not crim-flagging someone for subduing an unconscious person would be a simpler answer than adding an "allow" feature.

"Authorize" would be pretty awkward from a code perspective. Keeping a list for every single guard NPC and every door being guarded of PCs allowed to pass would lead to a hugely bloated file which would grow and grow as the "allowed" list filled up with dead PCs. If there's no unique PC-identifying string currently in place (name wouldn't work for obvious reasons) there would have to be a change to institute one... the sheer amount of work needed for the meagre pay-off seems to make this one unlikely to be implemented IMO.

Quirk

[Bestatte]

I imagine all characters have unique numerical identification tags. I know keys and other objects do...

The code would affect the room specifically, the NPC soldiers secondarily. It would only be effective if an exit is being guarded. The code would note that yes, it's an authorized person trying to get in.. and would then force *any* NPC soldier guarding it to let the person through.

Subdue just seems like an aggressive action, and if you're laying there half-dead, the last thing you want is some big nasty hulking halfgiant grabbing you by the shoulders and dragging you around like a side of beef. This would allow for a more "consentual" situation.

In addition, newbies who don't know about nosave (and people like me who don't figure it out til a character dies to lack of nosave) would have the option of allowing people to -gently- bring them somewhere, and not drag them off like the aforementioned side of beef.

[Angela Christine]

As others have said, some of the things you would allow are already possible.

As for the problem of not being able to pass a guard that you should be able to pass, I'd discuss the problem with your clan imms.  If they think that it makes sense for you to have that access, they can make you a member of the clan.  Many clans have a servant rank, usually the lowest "rank" in the clan except for slave, and even if yours does not the clan imms can create it if they think there is a need for it.

I'm not trying to shoot down your idea, but you may find there are less complex ways of dealing with these problems than a new command.

AC

[Gar]

I don't know how subdue on an unconscious person works at present - it may well not raise a crim-flag. Not crim-flagging someone for subduing an unconscious person would be a simpler answer than adding an "allow" feature.
Quirk

I learned the hard way that subduing an unconscious person WILL crim-flag you.  Can you say insta-death at the hands of guards?  I can.  Ouch!!  :cry:

[Carnage]

I don't know how subdue on an unconscious person works at present - it may well not raise a crim-flag. Not crim-flagging someone for subduing an unconscious person would be a simpler answer than adding an "allow" feature.
Quirk

I learned the hard way that subduing an unconscious person WILL crim-flag you.  Can you say insta-death at the hands of guards?  I can.  Ouch!!  :cry:

It's only if they have saves on. If someone has nosave on, you can subdue them even if they're awake or unconscious and won't be crimflagged.

[creeper386]

I've never had problems with subduing unconcious people... I think it's something like backstab or sap. Maybe just me, but I think subduing unconcious people most the time is safe... Otherwise it'd be pretty fucked up to knock someone out successfully, subdue them to drag them off and get slaughtered by some NPC soldiers that decided you were a criminal even though everything went off without a hook.

Put myself at the mercy of someone I just knocked out to type in nosave? Rather funny idea. Perhaps your character just REALLY sucked at subduing.


Creeper

[spawnloser]

Actually, creeper, it has been mentioned before that 'nosave' is required on the part of the subduee for the subduer not to get crim-flagged.

[creeper386]

Well, if it does, it should be changed.

Why would the person OOCily have control over rather or not someone subduing them when their character is unconcious.

Lets say I knock you out. Your immediately turn nosave off so you can't be subdued without the person getting crimflagged. I subdue you and now I'm crimflagged... It makes no sense.

And I don't see why it would be coded that way. Also every I've ever subdued or seen subdued in public must have always had nosave on, as I've let to see someone get crimflagged for subduing an unconcious person.


Creeper

[Anonymous]

Also every I've ever subdued or seen subdued in public must have always had nosave on, as I've let to see someone get crimflagged for subduing an unconcious person.

You've been lucky.  Believe me, it crim-flags you.  I have the corpse to prove it.

[flurry]

Putting the code aside and focussing on realism...

How do the city soldiers differentiate between an unconscious person who consents to being dragged around (nosave on) and one who doesn't (no save off)?    A soldier sees you subdue your friend and thinks "Yep, that one looks like he doesn't mind - oh, look over there, that one doesn't!"  

I understand if you're conscious, but if you're unconscious, how could the soldiers tell the difference?

Is this just a case with playability trumps realism?  Because I can't wrap my head around the idea of an unconscious person somehow indicating that they don't mind being subdued.

[JollyGreenGiant]

Subdue on unconscious people occasionally encompasses a bit more than just dragging someone around in a chokehold.  Let's say your pal passes out in a tavern, and you want to haul him back to the compound to sleep it off, whether he had too much to drink or passed out from the Way.  You can't "get" an unconscious person, so in order to sling them over your shoulder, you use the "subdue" command.  Now the NPC militia doesn't stop and ask you things like, "Hey, why do you have that guy slung over your shoulder?" or look at the fact that you're in the same military organization.  They only account for your crimflag, or lack thereof.

All that just to say, you can't "put the code aside and focus on realism", because the nature of code is that it is limited in what it is capable of reasonably accounting for.

[Angela Christine]

Like Creeper, I must have been lucky.  Or maybe there are different catagories of unconciousness, and people that is stunned, near death, or merely sleeping are treated differently?  

I hate seeing soldiers lying around the gates half dead.  It just seems really odd that the rest of the soldiers would go back inside the city and leave their buddy lying there outside the gate to get savaged by scavengers.  So, being a good citizen, I've subdued one of the poor bastards and dragged 'em back into a "safe" place in the city.  I assume NPC soldiers wouldn't have nosave on, since that would make them more vulnerable to certain attacks.  Yet they just stand there watching me drag Private Bob around town.

Go figure.

AC

[Gar]

Like Creeper, I must have been lucky.  Or maybe there are different catagories of unconciousness, and people that is stunned, near death, or merely sleeping are treated differently?  

I hate seeing soldiers lying around the gates half dead.  It just seems really odd that the rest of the soldiers would go back inside the city and leave their buddy lying there outside the gate to get savaged by scavengers.  So, being a good citizen, I've subdued one of the poor bastards and dragged 'em back into a "safe" place in the city.  I assume NPC soldiers wouldn't have nosave on, since that would make them more vulnerable to certain attacks.  Yet they just stand there watching me drag Private Bob around town.

Go figure.

AC

In your example I think you did the subduing outside the city, thus no crim-flag.  Then you brought the soldier inside the city.  You only get checked on the initial subdue for the crim-flag.  So, you could drag the poor sap around all day if you could manage.  If you dropped him and then went to subdue him again, this time inside the city, you'd have been whacked.

[Dan]

Your wrong Gar.

You -can- subdue an unconscious person inside a city. I have done it numerous times with no ill consequences. Perhaps the person was sleeping when you tried to subdue them, which would call a wanted flag down onto you. Right in the traders, I subdued someone who passed out and dragged them out of the way of all the fancy nobles.

[Xygax]

This is controlled only by the nosave flag (though I haven't checked the code, I'm pretty confident of this statement).  A lot of people wander the cities with nosave on always.  Now that you can OOC with unconscious people, you might ask them to nosave for you, before you go dragging them around.