Gab of the Week: Dwarves

[Kavrick]

So, just to preface this, I wanted to make a weekly-sorta thread where I bring up different themes and such of the game and see what people think. I usually put my own opinion in these posts, but for these I'll wait until other people post their opinions before I post my own, just to get a more unbias response. Of course, I expect everyone to remember not to talk about current details and such, this is mostly for the general opinion on x, y, z rather than specific opinions on said things during recent events.

With that said, I want to ask a few, simple questions to get the discussion going.

What do you like about dwarves?:

What do you dislike about dwarves?:

If there was something you'd change about dwarves, what would it be? And if you want, how would you change it?:

What do you think the current 'purpose' of dwarves is in the game? (both meta-ly and icly):

[Lizzie]

I like them because they are an integral part of the game world that I've been playing for the past 20+ years. They belong, they're part of Zalanthan culture from an in-character perspective. They fit.  They provide "other" that isn't either singularly stupid (half-giants), singularly criminal (elves), or singularly bi-polar (half-elves).  They add dimension to game play.  There's nothing I'd change about the race as it's written for the game.

I would absolutely bump them up to a 2-karma-required race and have a higher standard over their focus and perhaps add a blurb to chargen reminding a player who picks dwarf that the focus is IMPORTANT and is REQUIRED to be followed, but that's because of players, not because of the fictional race. I'd also require that the player submit a blurb every other week at minimum, giving staff an idea of the things the PC has been doing in an attempt to succeed with their focus. Just a paragraph, or even a short 5-item list.

[Riev]

I like their structure. Focus -> Goal(s) - Sub-goals - projects to accomplish subgoals

I once had a dwarf who wanted to carve a statue of his mother. Needed the right stone, the right shade, to work for Kadius to LEARN stones, to work with grebbers to find out where to FIND stone

And sure, people might ask him to chop down a tree but only because he'd ask to use the sap to color alabaster, or whatever.



What I don't like is how they feel like all effort no return now that the combat changes have come in.

[GreenTransient]

What do you like about dwarves?:  They have great stats. 

What do you dislike about dwarves?:  From personal experience, 1 in 10 dwarves isn't some focus as an excuse to PK for the sake of PKing stump looking to cause problems without seeming to add much besides.  That said, I really enjoy that 1 in 10 dwarf, the other 9 though blegh.

If there was something you'd change about dwarves, what would it be? And if you want, how would you change it?:  I would try to enforce their docs more.  Especially "Very few dwarves are deceptive."  and "infinite patience and determination when it comes to their focus."  Honestly, I think either their docs need to be changed or there needs to be some re-education.  It's pretty clear on "dwarven roleplay" push come to shove, karma lock it.

What do you think the current 'purpose' of dwarves is in the game? (both meta-ly and icly): IC Revenge PK's (not me yet) it seems.  Or PK's (not me yet).  Meta-ly: Muls gotta come from somewhere. 

[Kavrick]

What I don't like is how they feel like all effort no return now that the combat changes have come in.

I do agree that strength/endurance races such as the mul, dwarf and half giant were hit pretty hard by the changes. Not because strength is particularly bad per-say, but agility-wisdom races such as elves and breeds both have good damage, good defence and good skilling speeds because of wisdom.

[askaran]

Used to love playing dwarves, just don't really anymore. But I see enough well-played dwarves to still enjoy having them around. Most of the dwarves that aren't crimson wind, who as a clan I detest anyway so I'm definitely biased there. Seem to be craftsman and merchants of late and usually pretty interesting.

[Coda]

It's definitely been a slight adjustment from when mul/dwarf/half-giant were the power races, but they're still plenty strong.  I played a mul post-changes that was an absolute terror, you just can't dumpstat agility and hope to underflow the combat round thing into attacking constantly anymore.

As for dwarves, I like them because they're a vital part of the game world, and represent a diasporic race with no clear history.  They feel like a living version of the ruins you can find around the Known that hint at a very different past.  I also like the gritty clinging-to-survival aspect that a lot of them have.  I also enjoy their unique and inhuman psychology, one of the things I love about Arm is getting into the heads of an actively inhuman being.  In a lot of fantasy, things like elves and dwarves are basically just humans but with predilections. In Armageddon, they are absolutely not similar, and I find that really fun to explore.  Though it does cause confusion at times, because people try to attack them as a race by painting them with the brush of human mental illness.  I see them more as a remnant population whose evolution suited a world that is now long gone.  And there's something weirdly sad and kinda beautiful in viewing them through that lens.

I'd prefer they end up as a karma race if only because Foci are difficult to do properly and the are enormously different than your standard fantasy world's Dwarf.  I see them played kinda dull a lot, though I've also seen some fantastic Dwarves.

One thing I'd like to say is that having a Focus doesn't mean that your Dwarf is necessarily stiff-necked and hidebound.  It is just as valid to be a wheeler and dealer savvy customer to achieve your goals as it is to punch things until they do what you want.  I'd love to see more socially competent Dwarves make an appearance.  It's happened in the past, but I think there's a rich vein to mine for fresh takes there.  No dwarf/mine pun intended.

[CirclelessBard]

I like dwarves a lot. For me, the challenge of dwarves is that your character's mindset is somewhat predefined. That goes for every other non-human race though, and my trick to dealing with it is to never play the same non-human race two characters in a row. It seems to have worked so far.

I would say that of the non-human mindsets, the dwarven focus and the tendency to be poor deceivers makes them the most compatible non-human race for collaborative storytelling efforts that involve other PCs and aren't necessarily hostile. While other races may hold their cards close to their chest, with dwarves you have a very easy excuse to "overshare" and get more people involved (for better or worse).

The most fun way to play a dwarf IMO is to "tell" people what your focus is without telling them. To pick a random example focus from the "dwarven roleplay" helpfile, if my dwarf's focus is to learn to predict the weather, they should be trying that regularly. They should get a theory in their head about the weather cycle (say, that a cool day always follows three extremely hot days), and when there are three extremely hot days, confidently tell everyone at the tavern that the next day will be cool. If you're right, great! If not, then come up with a new theory. It can be very easy to go overboard and try to work the weather into every conversation, but when you find that happy balance, it can be really fun for yourself and for everyone around you.

The thing about dwarves and non-human races in general is that their coded differences are largely combat-based, since stats differ between races and stats mainly inform combat. The main RP allure of a dwarf is that they have a focus that they will literally do and endure anything to complete, and will never abandon, which +strength/-wisdom doesn't really represent. For dwarves I wish there was some sort of mechanic that encouraged you to pursue your PC's focus, something like the inspiration mechanic in D&D 5e. It would have to be a quasi-mechanic since it would have to be granted by staff monitoring your roleplay, but I think it would be neat.

[Tuannon]

I find most dwarves who I have had interactions with in the past were kind of all crunch no fluff.

Red Meso was a template that a lot of folks have (seemingly) worked off down the years.

In my experience of late it has been rare to find a dwarf who isn't wierd in their grasp of the status quo or monosyllabic or some kind of degenerate. Sure this may be me looking for flaws in a race I have not had an enjoyable experience playing or playing around, but there you go.

[Armaddict]

Dwarves are a rare thing for me, but I have issues/qualms/interests in some of the elements of their play, the same way I did with elves before I worked them all out and became gung-ho pro-city elf.

For example:

The main 'element' of a dwarf is their focus, right?  Do you consider this to be a known objective of life, the way it was in Dark Sun?  Do you consider it something that they choose, then devote themselves towards it?  Or is it just this intrinsic part of their psychology where they aren't really aware of it AS a 'focus', but instead it's just their lifelong pursuit that they can't really pull their mind away from?

I see benefits and drawbacks for both viewpoints.  But one of them, the latter, I think makes the dwarf a deeper, more believable character.  It makes it less of a 'No, I know his focus and he wouldn't do that', and instead a long-term noticeable trend of priorities and behavior, where you would instead say the same thing, but without a mechanic involved: 'No.  You can't possibly convince me that that dwarf friend did that.  It's completely against their nature.'

Things like that.  I do think dwarven roleplay is largely untapped, sometimes well-played and immersive, and sometimes shallow just like the elven roleplay can be; I think you really have to deep dive it to get it to that point of where you make the scene FEEL the dwarfness of the character, rather than have you just throwing the mechanics at the wall for all to see.  I have a hard time with it.  I only play them VERY rarely...when I have something that I absolutely want a character die-hard focused on.

[Krath]

One of my favorite interactions and depictions of a dwarf was when I was in the byn. I went to recruit this dwarf and he said, If I join will we be able to slay great beast? And that was that. Every single interaction the player brought up their need to slay a great beast. It was a great build up because the first great beast was a scorpion, then a scrab, and so on and so on. My PC that recruited him had died and he eventually lived on continuing to slay great beast. I heard that he eventually died trying to solo a great beast. To this day I think about that PC and how dedicated they were to the focus and I try to emulate any dwarf I play with the same "focus" to their focus that player had.

[Sugarpuff]

One of my favorite interactions and depictions of a dwarf was when I was in the byn. I went to recruit this dwarf and he said, If I join will we be able to slay great beast? And that was that. Every single interaction the player brought up their need to slay a great beast. It was a great build up because the first great beast was a scorpion, then a scrab, and so on and so on. My PC that recruited him had died and he eventually lived on continuing to slay great beast. I heard that he eventually died trying to solo a great beast. To this day I think about that PC and how dedicated they were to the focus and I try to emulate any dwarf I play with the same "focus" to their focus that player had.

He was one of my favourite characters I experienced, absolutely awesome. I'm not a huge fan of how most dwarves are depicted but he was absolutely fabulous. He never lost that attention to his focus did he!

[lostinspace]

I like dwarves because their focus is a guiding light for RP. Odd or confusing scenes or scenarios can be simplified and understood through the lens of their all consuming focus. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it gets you killed, but it does regularly drive my dwarf characters out of their comfort zone.

I've been executed for breaking into apartments on a dwarf before, their focus was 'Explore and scrutinize the world' and I didn't steal a thing, I just had to know what was behind those doors. I sat quietly and let my clan leader beat me to death, because I agreed not to steal, and I hadn't, but from their perspective, someone saw me sneaking into an apartment.

If not for dwarven focus, I likely never would have tried setting up my own player clan, or spent the time and effort learning how to skim and exploring the silt looking for a necessity of my focus.

[undoubtedly]

I always said I disliked them and wouldn't ever play one. I've seen only a couple I really loved in the world. Recently, my play stype seems to have shifted a little though and I'm actually finding myself planning one to play next.

[Lotion]

If I want to do some specific coded stuff that I don't think could be easily justified on another race I will make a dwarf with an oddly specific focus. Some examples
* Hopp was for me to figure out how branching magick works
* Shroom was for me to map the sewers zone

[Inks]

I love dwarves for the RP, the focus you pick shapes the whole personality. The only weakness of dwarves is the social aspect, I haven't played one since Karathath or whatever (Founder of the Red Union).

He had a focus of awakening the Undergod, a snake god of Ruk, who would cast down all false gods. The lore I made was very fun and funny, after snakes, dwarves were the second most holy because they were closest to the ground, therefore the Undergod.

Shortness was a blessing etc. Anyway, good times. The Red Union were cultist/freedom fighter terrorists posing as a Storm trade group. They are the reason the Yaroch fields have vnpc guards at night now after we managed to torch the Yaroch fields to cause famine and riots in Allanak. I never expected/intended the group to outlive my PC, but it lasted for another RL year or something. Think he even had a Sorcerer underling at one point. Fun times!

Other foci have been "find the most succulent meat" on a cannibal CW fatty called Dokkar.

And "stop the turaal conspiracy from taking over the known" on a Kuraci Fist Raalshanker. He didn't so much kill turaals himself as put a sizable bounty on their pelts and look for their agents working against him (anyone who tried to protect the turaals or convince him there was no turaal conspiracy was a turaal agent).

I think my last sorcerer minion PC was a dwarf who had the focus of "learn the secrets of the old known." A dwarf historian type PC. They are just so autistic about their focus.

Dwarves are fun. Even craft/find/steal the "perfect" x foci completely shape the PC. I should play another one some day!

[LindseyBalboa]

i suppose what i like most about dwarves is that people seem to enjoy playing them.

[whengravityfails]

I don't play them, I don't like them, and I don't like seeing them. But, they're not going anywhere.

Oh well.