What kind of game is Armageddon? What kind of game should it be?

[Brokkr]

I see it as a collaborative, but not cooperative, storytelling exercise about characters being in competitive conflict with one another.

[Windstorm]

It's clearly a diverse game with a lot of different ways to play it, with a lot of different players who have differing visions and playstyles. Players - not just PCs - wind up in conflict I think on an OOC level because a lot of those visions sort of conflict.

* Roleplaying people want you to emote and think more and play out an interesting narrative. They get really invested in their PCs and create stories and emotions.

* Combatty competitive people want you to let them spar, increase their skills, and accept it when you die. They move onto the next PC easily. "Who cares, it's just pixels?!"

* Wilderness people want a harsh environment and deadly creatures and stuff that's going to challenge them in the gameworld.

Meeting in the middle somewhere between the people we most enjoy playing with mostly creates fun experiences, but maybe the most fun experiences are had when people in the same range of expectations get together and cooperate or even compete with that sort of understanding, whether it's flowery-emoting roleplayers dueling via political means, Rinthis stalking each other around, or hunters bringing down a mek in the wilderness.

A lot of people are really entrenched wherever they lie in this spectrum. It's inevitable no one really unified vision emerges. We all just have to find ways to sort of make it fun for each other wherever in the middle we wind up meeting.

[Seeker]

I see it as a collaborative, but not cooperative, storytelling exercise about characters being in competitive conflict with one another.

This is a really pretty good terse summation.  I'll try this modest adjustment.

I see it as a collaborative, but not necessarily cooperative, storytelling exercise about characters being in a conflict for survival in social, political and environmental theatres.

[Yelinak]

I see it as a collaborative, but not cooperative, storytelling exercise about characters being in competitive conflict with one another.

It has not manifested in any tangible way for quite a few years. It has failed to be what you describe, thanks to a lack of effort to maintain what you describe.

It has, instead, been a boring wankfest where nothing mattered and nobody had any real conflict with anybody, because the game itself failed to uphold any such thing.

It should not be difficult to ensure that most clans have goals that conflict with some other clan's, but it has felt like nobody cared to make it so that this was the case.

As a consequence, this game has been incredibly boring for a very long time.

[Jimpka_Moss]

Hey Yelinak, I was hoping you could clarify/qualify what you mean if at all possible without changing your meaning? The way the 'you' comes across there feels like, only seems like so far, like it's calling out one specific person for the end result instead of something more broad. I think it's merely because of the quote that it seems directed at anyone specific, but if that's how you intended it, I couldn't suggest a better way to be clearer than you have. (disclaimer: I get I'm asking you to change your words, but what I hope for is clarity, not a change in opinion. Thanks in advance.)

[najdorf]

Is there a rule that prohibits players from sharing who they play? If you want it, you can already do it. Or do you want to enforce it to others, too?

[Pariah]

Is there a rule that prohibits players from sharing who they play? If you want it, you can already do it. Or do you want to enforce it to others, too?

Can’t share IC information until 1 year has passed.  Who you play is definitely IC info, so yes there is a rule against it.

[Calamari]

Is there a rule that prohibits players from sharing who they play? If you want it, you can already do it. Or do you want to enforce it to others, too?

No such rule. Unless someone has a particularly warped sense of what IC and OOC mean, who is played by what player is OOC information. It's not in-game information in any way and cannot be learned through any IC means (obviously). As long as you're not organizing IC happenings OOC (exception for playtimes), the rules as written are clear.

[Aruven]

I used to enjoy the game when there was more anonymity. It was much clearer that it was a collaborative game that could go sideways for you based on the other players at any moment.

I don't know what the game is now.

I don't and never understood the transposing of cultural waves in the west being fixated in-game beyond sexual consent/protection parameters. And likewise I was never running rape scenes and arcs so I never really understood that either but just assumed there was more than sadistic intent in the background for a character going through it IC. All of a sudden I wasn't allowed to use swear words or discuss topics because on the GDB people were making analogies to their past experiences in life and being mentally impaired by in game overlays. The characters became less real, and even the villains had to become 'gentle villains' for risk of angering players OOC through offense. This was laid on by a weird control of the storyline narrative by the staff through a time period where everything floated in stasis until they were ready to trigger their next agreed upon plotline and player choice had 0 impact on the outcome, and the draw up to a game closure for sequel launch and drawback of that didn't help.

It was once a world where two sorceror kings and some wannabe sorcerors were power playing while minions combed the board doing wild shit and creating great times. Out in the sands hardcore players were murdering the shit out of people. Players set the stage in the cities and the bloodshed inevitably followed to the sand or the streets. People got offended, people made friends, people died.

I'm being honest because I don't think being politically correct is helping anyone. I'm being honest because even though a great upswing in life has pulled me away, I don't miss logging in anymore.

I'd like to see less OOC. Please for the love of God, try to limit OOC use ICly.

Stop playing the long game. Also guilty of this from time to time. Give me 2 days played of amazing roleplay and IDGAF if my PC dies. The grind mentality is killing the game.

Trust each other as players. I know, I know. But it must be done for any enjoyment or hope.

We don't have a game world problem, we have a story problem in some ways, and i've been an advocate for letting staff write and continue the large arc while letting players shape it from within. Just don't be douchebags.

[Molten Heart]

Armageddon is the kind of game where if you put on a good show for your audience, you get rewarded with more roleplay opportunities (sometimes ICly in-game with invites to clans, given silly tasks/jobs that don't make sense IC but are fun so people keep you around, or OOCly with special roles, karma, and possibly becoming staff).

If your performance doesn't please your audience (staff and other players who aren't staff), you are punished either with a reduction of your roleplay opportunities (people avoid you and don't want to play around you). This may or may not be noticeable based on the level of dissatisfaction that you produce. You might become so isolated that it feels like a solo game, but at more extreme levels, you might face IC consequences from authority figures for what seems like no good reason. If staff are not pleased with your performance, you may suffer retaliation from the game world (VNPCs or NPCs reacting negatively, possibly in extreme or violent ways), where other players who have a more pleasing performance in the exact same circumstances wouldn't get a reaction or might get a positive reaction.

It's been said that playing ArmageddonMUD is a performance for the amusement of the staff.

[Synthesis]

Armageddon is the kind of game where if you put on a good show for your audience, you get rewarded with more roleplay opportunities (sometimes ICly in-game with invites to clans, given silly tasks/jobs that don't make sense IC but are fun so people keep you around, or OOCly with special roles, karma, and possibly becoming staff).

If your performance doesn't please your audience (staff and other players who aren't staff), you are punished either with a reduction of your roleplay opportunities (people avoid you and don't want to play around you). This may or may not be noticeable based on the level of dissatisfaction that you produce. You might become so isolated that it feels like a solo game, but at more extreme levels, you might face IC consequences from authority figures for what seems like no good reason. If staff are not pleased with your performance, you may suffer retaliation from the game world (VNPCs or NPCs reacting negatively, possibly in extreme or violent ways), where other players who have a more pleasing performance in the exact same circumstances wouldn't get a reaction or might get a positive reaction.

It's been said that playing ArmageddonMUD is a performance for the amusement of the staff.

This is a weird take.

If you are useful, and make yourself useful, other players will always give you something to do, no matter how boring you are.

And you have to be a serious dumbass for staff to give you a beatdown.

[Usiku]

you might face IC consequences from authority figures for what seems like no good reason. If staff are not pleased with your performance, you may suffer retaliation from the game world (VNPCs or NPCs reacting negatively, possibly in extreme or violent ways).

It's been said that playing ArmageddonMUD is a performance for the amusement of the staff.

This is a very unfortunate perspective and I am sad that your experience of the game has led you here. However, it is very far from the truth. Staff are here for the amusement of players and basically everything we do is with that in mind. We have no interest in punishing players. Yes, there is a requirement to RP because this is an RPI game. There is also documentation to follow and we will nudge players who are flouting the docs, because the docs reinforce the world and the theme so this is important for the enjoyment of all the players around you. We may have the world and NPCs and vNPCs act in ways that reinforce the documentation - this is not retaliation or punishment, this is the game that we bring alive. You do a thing, the world responds (hopefully).

But if players are trying to roleplay and are following documentation then they don't need to put on a performance that 'pleases' staff and staff will support any and every player they can with our time so long as they are trying to play the game and having fun, that includes players who might not be as 'good' at RP, whatever that might mean.

[Riev]

you might face IC consequences from authority figures for what seems like no good reason. If staff are not pleased with your performance, you may suffer retaliation from the game world (VNPCs or NPCs reacting negatively, possibly in extreme or violent ways).

It's been said that playing ArmageddonMUD is a performance for the amusement of the staff.

This is a very unfortunate perspective and I am sad that your experience of the game has led you here. However, it is very far from the truth. Staff are here for the amusement of players and basically everything we do is with that in mind. We have no interest in punishing players. Yes, there is a requirement to RP because this is an RPI game. There is also documentation to follow and we will nudge players who are flouting the docs, because the docs reinforce the world and the theme so this is important for the enjoyment of all the players around you. We may have the world and NPCs and vNPCs act in ways that reinforce the documentation - this is not retaliation or punishment, this is the game that we bring alive. You do a thing, the world responds (hopefully).

But if players are trying to roleplay and are following documentation then they don't need to put on a performance that 'pleases' staff and staff will support any and every player they can with our time so long as they are trying to play the game and having fun, that includes players who might not be as 'good' at RP, whatever that might mean.

If I may:

I think this comes from a long-standing unsaid tradition among staff that "Its more worthwhile for the Player if they hit a lot of roadblocks before accomplishing their goal" which has been leaned into pretty hard.

At some point, it became less about roleplaying and "following the docs" as it did "wait to see what roadblock staff will put in your way THIS time". All the while, certain other players would seem to get less or no roadblocks to their goals.

Hopefully that is changing, but that has been a part of the culture for a while. Roadblocks and tests are fine, but only if everyone gets tested. Being told "You can't do that because <x>" and then someone else does that DESPITE <x> still being in play is kind of demoralizing and leads to Molten's idea of "retaliation" if your RP is bad.

[Usiku]

Thanks Riev. I can honestly understand where it comes from, I just wanted to be clear that there is no judging people's RP chops and then punishing them for not being good enough some how, there is no retaliation for anything, that's just not something we do. Even when players ignore docs, break rules, cause (non harmful) chaos we are generally looking to give 2nd, 3rd, 4th, Nth chances.

I cannot speak to how things were before, but I do know that we try very hard to treat players fairly (revamping pclans was a big part of that). There may sometimes be a discrepancy between what different staff think about something which could lead to different players getting different outcomes or there may be other factors that might not be visible to an outside player. Someone may have overcome many challenges to achieve something, but they just weren't visible or obvious to the general playerbase. I hope that makes sense!

Anyway, I feel like I may be derailing the topic a bit here so I shall shh.

[Tuannon]

At some point, it became less about roleplaying and "following the docs" as it did "wait to see what roadblock staff will put in your way THIS time".

While staff have been trying to make sure communications are better and more frequent, old habits on both sides die hard, in my experience.

Also with a blackout on communication away from the game it makes it still very easy to suppose there are still 'haves' and 'have nots' when it comes to RP / storytelling opportunities.

On that note, shout out to Aesira for doing their bit to remove this old 'misconception'.

[BadSkeelz]

you might face IC consequences from authority figures for what seems like no good reason. If staff are not pleased with your performance, you may suffer retaliation from the game world (VNPCs or NPCs reacting negatively, possibly in extreme or violent ways).

It's been said that playing ArmageddonMUD is a performance for the amusement of the staff.

This is a very unfortunate perspective and I am sad that your experience of the game has led you here. However, it is very far from the truth. Staff are here for the amusement of players and basically everything we do is with that in mind. We have no interest in punishing players. Yes, there is a requirement to RP because this is an RPI game. There is also documentation to follow and we will nudge players who are flouting the docs, because the docs reinforce the world and the theme so this is important for the enjoyment of all the players around you. We may have the world and NPCs and vNPCs act in ways that reinforce the documentation - this is not retaliation or punishment, this is the game that we bring alive. You do a thing, the world responds (hopefully).

But if players are trying to roleplay and are following documentation then they don't need to put on a performance that 'pleases' staff and staff will support any and every player they can with our time so long as they are trying to play the game and having fun, that includes players who might not be as 'good' at RP, whatever that might mean.

Staff absolutely target some players with hostile animations, then cite nonexistent docs (or nonexistent player complaints) to back up their actions.

[Kavrick]

I can kinda agree, I've seen far, far more negative animations than I have seen positive ones. One thing which has kinda been on my mind is that the fastest way to get staff attention is to do something they dont like and see how fast they animate an npc to put that roadblock in front of you. Even though I haven't been playing for a particularly long amount of time, I've already had this happen to me a handful of times and it always just kinda sucks. Yet even when I ask for a quick one-two line animation for something fun, I usually never get it, or any sort of request requiring aid from the staff rather than punishment.

I will say, it's been a little better since I've started my most recent character, I did have one animation of a character just being racist towards my character and then deanimating (I don't have an issue with prejudice, but when the npc then goes on to deanimate, it kinda stops any response or follow-up rp) but I did also have a couple of more positive animations. I know staff are super busy and stuff, but characters animating honestly add a lot to the game, it makes it feel more alive and less like you're just playing a videogame.

[Usiku]

Staff absolutely target some players with hostile animations, then cite nonexistent docs (or nonexistent player complaints) to back up their actions.

Staff will animate appropriate world responses. You are still playing Armageddon, it is a hostile and harsh world. But it won't ever be with the goal or desire to punish players. I think that is key.

You can put your experiences in the past tense and see what things are like moving forward.

[Patuk]

We have Kavrick up there disagreeing with you vehemently, and agreeing with BadSkeelz very much.

[Tailong]

Well, there is a difference in staff animations you like, and ones you dislike. They are sometimes subjective, and you may not like them, especially if you are doing something wrong.

[Pariah]

I've had staff animate the world around me when I do crazy shit.

I once had a murderhobo in the Rinth, I was using their npcs like training dummies, someone animated a boss type guy, he came and beat the shit outta me, took my coin and then warned me that the rinth wasn't my sparring hall.  Lesson learned.

They have to animate the world in certain ways to keep unrealistic shit from happening.  I think that's normal and something I would do too in their place.

Now if you take every action as a horrible slight against you, not really sure what to say.

[Kavrick]

I've had staff animate the world around me when I do crazy shit.

I once had a murderhobo in the Rinth, I was using their npcs like training dummies, someone animated a boss type guy, he came and beat the shit outta me, took my coin and then warned me that the rinth wasn't my sparring hall.  Lesson learned.

They have to animate the world in certain ways to keep unrealistic shit from happening.  I think that's normal and something I would do too in their place.

Now if you take every action as a horrible slight against you, not really sure what to say.

For me it's less about 'i'm annoyed that any bad animation happened towards me' and more that the kinda ratio of the world reacting to things I do only ever in a negative way. I never get to have chats with the barkeeper, or have a chat with the npc members of my tribe to learn about them. I never get interesting animations like that but I will get animations about npcs being disgusted and avoiding my character.

Edit: Let me just appened this real quick, I do think staff have been better about animations as of late. It's not to the degree that I'd like to see, but staff are busy and it has 100% been an improvement.

[Aruven]

I typed up like a 3 page reply here and deleted it. I'm not sure why i'm in this thread again.

[Riev]

So is the game a collaborative storytelling game with permadeath and consequences, or is it a rogue-like with social interaction?

Armageddon used to bill itself out as a Roleplay Intensive MUD. Meaning, combat is coded and your actions have consequences in a world where if it isn't coded, staff members will assist in the world reacting the way it should.

Is that not Armageddon anymore? Recent events make me believe it is a Souls-like game where NPCs respawn and the social interaction is invite-only.

Just circling back to be on topic:

It seems lately that Arm is best described as a persistent world in which player interaction/socializing is key, but anything out of ordinary social interaction requires appointed staff members to make the world "come alive".

Yes it has Permadeath. Yes it has karma and high coded-capable roles. However, none of it matters if the interactions become stale, or so few and far between that its Skyrim with an occasional Dark Souls-esque invasion by another player.

[Wday]

Arma is a body count game with role play but small world fleshing out type game.  In the past (I still have playing PTSD lol) you log on and leave and some old staff WOULD throw unbeatable beast or load up npc elves to chase you down across the world and kill you or try.  Never giving time to flesh out a role in ways or building the role there.

Now days Arma is the players rushing to kill and get the body count with little to any fleshing out plot or reason.  Say this because lately with a under one day played pc he was hunted and killed by 3 full clans without one emote or icly known reason.  This was done almost fresh from the log in leaving the tavern and being hunted. Now could been a mix up maybe mistake but fact there was no rp just power pvp pk level action.

Arma is a harsh world yes but there is very little to harsh and more to the your character will die hahah why try feel in it lately.  Not saying arm and it's beast be on easy mode but maybe a bit playable more so if you start a character you may can build them into a story.  Not just survivor tales at the Gaj.