Mul Birthing = Death ?

[ShaLeah]

In any case, it's likely a very risky proposition, breeding a mul, and the process is likely to kill the female parent (dwarven or otherwise), if she is not also recieving expert treatment from a physician (or a Vivaduan?) at the time of the birth (and probably at times before, and after it), and is likely to be equally perilous for the newborn mul-child, also. Because of this, mul-births almost -never- (read: NEVER, for RP purposes) occur successfully outside of the slaving houses.

I don't get this.  In game, several times, I have heard people refer to mul breeders (i.e. females who push out mulglets) as dying during the birth.  Now, realistically, if Zalanthan biology is anything like modern day biology, there is no reason at all that a human mother (or dwarven for that matter) can not successfully breed a mulglet.  They don't have claws or razor-sharp tails, heck, they're bald and stocky.  Granted girth may be a hinderance but women, rl, petite, 4'8" women who weigh 90 lbs have 10 lbs babies (and up) all the time, is there some sort of documentation (i.e. the books the mud is modelled after) that states mulglet having as so lethal that only robust females can have them?  Is the story supposed to scare stubbies away from mixing with humans so that they don't have a shit load of baby mulglets and become filthy rich in selling them?  Keeping it a mystery maybe?

Thoughts? Comments? Prescriptions for Valium?

[gfair]

Blank

[Angela Christine]

Perhaps mul babies weigh 20 pounds when they are born?  It seems unlikely, but it could be that as feotuses the cross-breeding makes them weaker, or makes their resperatory system take longer to develop.

A human premie will often have health problems throughout childhood, and may be weaker even as an adult.  If you are born 3 months early, 3 months in an incubator won't make you equivilent to the other babies that were also concieved 9 months ago but stayed in the womb for the full 9 months.  Sometimes a premie has to stay in hospital for a year or more, much of that time in an incubator with breathing tubes and all sorts of unpleasantness.  What would happen to normal babies if they didn't come out at 9 months, if for some reason they stayed in for 12 months would they come out as far ahead of those born at 9 months and the 9 monthers come out ahead of the 6 monthers?  Probably not, who knows?

But suppose that with muls, extra time does help.  Suppose that a "full-term" mul would be frail, their unbalanced musculature snapping their tiny bones or crushing their tiny lungs.  A full-term mul that survived would still be stronger and healthier than the average human, but not much, not enough to compensate for their downsides.  But if you seal the cervix or vaginal canal so that the mul can not be born when the mother's body believes it is time.  Instead the mul can be kept in the life-giving womb for extra time, say an extra 30%.  Spending more time in nature's incubater makes these infants exceptionally robust, and that good health stays with them for the rest of their lives.  Unfortunately when the vagina is unsealed and the 20 pound infant is born ... well, things don't turn out so well for mom.

In this case the closely guarded secret isn't dwarf viagra, it is the forced gestation.  It could be done through magickal or mundane means, but you can definately see how healing magick would make the process more successful.  Even if some freakish dwarf/human couple formed naturally, their children would be the weaker "premie" muls, because the mother's body would naturally expel the baby too early.  

In effect, all or almost all mul babies would be expeled as miscarriages or spontanious second term abortions, and very few are able to survive under those conditions.  Human and dwarven women simply are not designed to carry these freaks of nature.  If you somehow prevent premie birth you get a normal mul, but almost certainly kill the mother because a "normal" mul baby weighs 20+ pounds at birth.  

If they had sufficent medical technology they could create the embryos in vitro (test tube babies) and then implant the embryos in half-giant females.  A half-giant would have no trouble giving birth to a mul, or even a whole litter of muls.  But I guess that will have to wait.    


Well, that's one theory, anyway.  

AC

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

AC, I find that idea concerning the process of creating muls a rather intrepid one. Once more, you have broadened my scope of sight.

Thank you.

[X-D]

At one time I remember it being said that mul births tend to be rather violent, and even a mul baby is horribly strong.

[Lazloth]

Yep, my mental image is that of the mul infant clawing its way through the host's innards.

[ShaLeah]

Yep, my mental image is that of the mul infant clawing its way through the host's innards.

I think -that- is pretty much impossible, since the hosting area becomes quite cramped at about 7 months along in a human body.  The fetus can stretch and turn but extending their arms enough to claw is pretty improbably, not to mention they don't have claws but normal hands.  If it clawed its way out it also risks tearing not only the placenta (which I assume is still there to feed a mulglet like it feeds a regular glet) but the countless other insides which essentially have to remain intact in order for the mulglet to come out okay.  

Does anyone else get a mental image of that one movie where the baby is a monster and comes out tearing the throats off the doctors and the only person it doesn't kill instantly is it's mother?  Sheesh... what is the name of that?

[X-D]

Called It's alive...I think.

[Flaming Ocotillo]

I've always found the whole "a mul claws its way out of the mother because it's born of rage and instinct and great muscle!!" idea to be pretty silly.

I'm not sure how many instances in RL exist where a female is "cursed" with having to carry a baby, resulting in guaranteed death. I can't think of any, myself.

I'm of the opinion that the mul-kills-mother concept is based on some teenage hurt fantasy towards women, making the "coolness factor" of muls so much greater.

[Anonymous]

I heard Muls eat their way out of the host like in the movie "Aliens".

[Carnage]

It's called accepting the facts that are given to you. Obviously the process is extremely stressful and dangerous. The rest is most likely an IC secret. Do you think Borsail and Winrothol want you to run out and start breeding your own muls and undercutting their profits? Other than that there's not much more to say. It's a simple fact of the game that many parents are killed during those pregnancies, end of story.

[Angela Christine]

It could simply be that mul infants are a little larger at birth than human infants.  Even a 9 pound baby has an increased chance of birth injury, so they wouldn't have to be HUGE to increase the chance of either the mother or infant being dammaged during birth.  Here's a site that lists some common birth injuries and their causes: http://www.lpch.org/DiseaseHealthInfo/HealthLibrary/newborn/ncomnjry.html  Numerous lawfirm websites also insist that Cerebral Palsy is often  due to birth injuries, although the medical ones say a conjenital brain malformation is more commonly the cause.  :roll:  Obviously a mul slave that is injured at birth won't be worth as much, and some of those injuries may not be noticed until several years after birth.

Years ago when the civilizations of the known world were more advanced,  they may have developed cesarian section deliveries.  Muls are thought to have existed in the Empire of Man before the arrival of the Dragon, so this seems plausible to me.  A c-section would bring the mul child out intact, without the dangers of prolonged birth.  Unfortunately the medical technology in modern Zalanthas is primitive, so modern attempts at C-sections likely do not go well for the mother.  Getting the baby out intact is one thing, putting the mother back together properly is more difficult.  

Still, it could be worthwhile to risk losing the woman depending on how valuable she is.  If it were me, I'd want to use very strong, healty women to breed muls, to encourage the production of strong healthy mul beasts.  Ideally I would want a really buff woman with little commercial value.  Maimed female gladiators might be ideal.  A gladiator that is missing an arm or a leg isn't good for much, they can train younger gladiators but you only need so many trainers, they won't be much use as heavy labor but will probably be too dangerous (and ugly) to use as indoor slaves.  But if her overies are still kicking then she can be the perfect mul producer since she has the qualities you most want to see in your future mul slave, and if she is dammaged or dies as a result of birthing the mul, well, she wasn't good for much else anyway.  It's a win-win situation.

AC

[JollyGreenGiant]

Don't forget that any childbirth at all is dangerous in a low tech society like Zalanthas.  Factor in an abnormally-sized child, such a mul, a general lack of medical knowledge, and the fact that inevitably, the child is going to be seen as more valuable than the mother.  The mentality is always going to be "save the child at the expense of the mother" when it comes to muls; combined with what would be a normal mortality rate for the environment and technology and an abnormal childbirth, and I imagine the mother's survival rate is extremely low.

[creeper386]

Lets see... We are talking about a world with basically no medical science. We aren't talking about RL now of days. You see, back when RL had little medical science, unless you were rich there was a fair chance of mother or child dying in the birthing process. Fairly high chances as I understand it.

Add on an to the fact that they are giving birth to something thats most likely at least as large as a huge baby ... Well I at least can certainly see problems. I imagine mul babys being in the least alot wider and squat. I could see even their musculature structure being more solid. Perhaps they're heads don't squish as much as humans? Anyways, I figure if a normal birth could be difficult under such circumstances...


Creeper

[Anonymous]

My guess, they dont -always- die.  But the fatality rate is much higher.  Keep in mind, until recent history, many mother's did not survive giving birth to human normal children.  A mul would be much more a challenge.  Also, the process of breeding muls might be lethal to the mother.

[Petra]

It's probably not even because of the size of a mul infant (which very well could be the same size as a human infant).  My guess is it's the chemistry involved or some other bizarre, myserious, unknown-to-most explanation that causes the mother of a mul to die in child birth.

Like how I didn't need to say "Find out IC"?  

[gfair]

Perhaps the gestation period for Dwarves is quite long, and that carries over to Dwarf/Human inter-breeding, so the Mul's don't grow faster, they remain in the womb longer, and thus are bigger at birth because of that.  Or the Muls were not 10 pounds, but 12-14 and too broad for a normal birth, so the only alternative was a C-Section, for which there was no healing technique known to help the mother survive.