Author Topic: Search, as it exists now is bad  (Read 702 times)

Lotion

  • Posts: 273
Search, as it exists now is bad
« on: April 16, 2021, 10:51:37 AM »
I haven't used search but everyone I've talked to says that it's a pain in the kank to use to any effect.

In my perfect Armageddon here is how search works:

1) You type search
2) You do the before search delay
3) You get an echo that gives you some useful information and you think "Wow, I'm glad I used the search skill".

Right now step 3 rarely happens.

There should be four echoes you can get upon doing a search check: (these echoes are meant to convey the idea, not be the real ones)
* You find a thing. (success)
* You don't find a thing, but you think there might be one. (fail)
* You don't find a thing, but you can't tell if there is one. (fail)
* You don't find a thing, but you can tell there isn't one. (success)

I think to make the search skill accessible and not awful to use it should more often give useful information and never give incorrect information. Something that is also very important is give true negatives. You don't find anything is not very helpful as a baseline thing and the only reliable way to find out there's nothing to find is to search a lot of times and hope that you don't get astronomically unlucky AND have the skill to find something if it's there.
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The7DeadlyVenomz

  • Posts: 9251
Re: Search, as it exists now is bad
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2021, 11:38:27 AM »
Well, I think the utter fail is useful, in the long run, in keeping secret doors secret(ish), until they're found (and of course, we need more of these searchable exits and stash spots). Either that, or, have hidden doors move each reset. I hate the idea of every Sarge taking their troop to room x because they know a door is there.

On the other hand, if there is buried stuff in the room, then yes, I'd like to see an utter fail still let you know if continuing to search is worth it.

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Maso

  • Posts: 4045
Re: Search, as it exists now is bad
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2021, 11:47:35 AM »
Maybe just:

* You find a thing. (success)
* You don't find a thing (fail)
* You don't find a thing, but you can tell there isn't one. (success)
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Brytta Léofa

  • Posts: 835
Re: Search, as it exists now is bad
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2021, 12:36:58 PM »
Well, I think the utter fail is useful, in the long run, in keeping secret doors secret(ish), until they're found (and of course, we need more of these searchable exits and stash spots). Either that, or, have hidden doors move each reset. I hate the idea of every Sarge taking their troop to room x because they know a door is there.

I feel like you shouldn't be able to use hidden exits unless you have the search skill or are following someone who has it.

Once that's done, make search more useful as per OP. The game is no longer completely spilling the beans for all your future PCs.
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betweenford

  • Posts: 131
Re: Search, as it exists now is bad
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2021, 05:52:13 PM »
Haha... search sucks.

But what if...... Scouts (and stalkers) had search skill? Just throwing that out there. Strange that a hole in the sand that may or may not exist requires either a very specific guild/subguild combo, or bringing a city-born sneak to a cave/ruin/hole-in-the-ground.

Shaydee

  • Posts: 316
Re: Search, as it exists now is bad
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2021, 06:54:08 PM »
Haha... search sucks.

But what if...... Scouts (and stalkers) had search skill? Just throwing that out there. Strange that a hole in the sand that may or may not exist requires either a very specific guild/subguild combo, or bringing a city-born sneak to a cave/ruin/hole-in-the-ground.

+1
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LindseyBalboa

  • Posts: 297
Re: Search, as it exists now is bad
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2021, 07:51:45 PM »
The only change I want is for scout/stalker to have search. It doesn't make sense they wouldn't have it. There are hidden exits outdoors.
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Lotion

  • Posts: 273
Re: Search, as it exists now is bad
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2021, 08:00:25 PM »
Maybe just:

* You find a thing. (success)
* You don't find a thing (fail)
* You don't find a thing, but you can tell there isn't one. (success)
This would be good, too imo

+2 to betweenford's good idea of stalker and scout getting search
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Maso

  • Posts: 4045
Re: Search, as it exists now is bad
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2021, 01:30:22 AM »
You got to bring your local Adventurer along!
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SpyGuy

  • Posts: 1435
Re: Search, as it exists now is bad
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2021, 01:33:41 AM »
I feel like stalker already gets everything under the sun but outdoor classes need more access to search.   It’s an important skill for people to find all the cool stuff out in the wastes, otherwise a lot of that goes unused.  +1 adding it to stalker/scout


What subclasses get search?  If memory serves correctly it’s not many

betweenford

  • Posts: 131
Re: Search, as it exists now is bad
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2021, 08:31:08 AM »
What subclasses get search?  If memory serves correctly it’s not many
Grebber, and nobody else.

X-D

  • Posts: 5789
Re: Search, as it exists now is bad
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2021, 03:03:26 PM »
Stalker is such an anemic class I have no issue with adding search to them. Bit more utility for the poor things.
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Inks

  • Posts: 1425
Re: Search, as it exists now is bad
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2021, 10:56:52 PM »
Stalker is a great class. And search is cool.
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  • Posts: 5789
Re: Search, as it exists now is bad
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2021, 01:15:04 AM »
Lame...Stalker...will work for less then lame.
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Patuk

  • Posts: 4183
Re: Search, as it exists now is bad
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2021, 01:30:07 AM »
Stalker is a fantastic class, search or no.
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Fernandezj

  • Posts: 148
Re: Search, as it exists now is bad
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2021, 11:43:50 PM »
Just add wilderness/city variations like most other perception skills.

Lotion

  • Posts: 273
Re: Search, as it exists now is bad
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2021, 06:56:07 AM »
Just add wilderness/city variations like most other perception skills.
I would like to see it be more akin to scan/hide/sneak where you have the skill and then a flag for city/wild/both.

It's also really disheartening that listen is split like this for some reason =[
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