Mounts Should Maybe Cost More

[Brytta Léofa]

Starting another thread to avoid a total derail:

You'd be hard-pressed to search history for an instance where medium-end shirts cost more than beasts of burden in the same time and location. The shirts are just one example. Beasts of burden, I think, are vastly underpriced. Their variation in price is also negligible.

Here are some ideas for improving the general Mount Economy. Many of these don't require any new coding.

[expensive]: Substantial price increase for all mounts.
[diverse]: More difference between basic and premium mounts.
[startable]: Add reduced-price mount tickets in the starter shops.
[sellable]: Add more NPCs who will buy mounts. (The script exists, but I only know of one place it's used.)
[markable]: Mark mounts with branding tattoos.
[stealable]: Let elves with the "steal" skill steal hitched mounts.

In more detail...

[expensive]: Let's take the maximum common mount price up to "couple pieces of silt-horror armor" level, so like, 4000-5000 sid. This makes a great mount a real object of desire, something people can actually plot around.

[diverse]: More price difference and quality difference between mounts. A simple approach would be: keep the current mounts but at $expensive prices; introduce degraded versions at about 2x current price.
  an old, swaybacked plains ox

Going further, we could gatekeep some of the combat utility by mount type. E.g.: you can't charge/trample with a basic mount...or you can, but you can't train or execute above journeyman level. Your basic mount is good for mobility but not the best for getting into a fight.

[startable]: Add mounts to the set of things that you can get discounts on in starter stops. This lets us jack up prices for basic mounts without ruining char gen economics.

[sellable]: If mounts are a premium commodity, there should be an actual market for them. My experience trying to make money as a mount seller is that you have to deal with bulk buyers: a Byn sarge, say. There's a reason we have NPC shopkeepers; even though dealing with PCs is preferable it's not always practical.

My real brain wave on this one is: have one NPC in Allanak and one in Luirs that do scheduled mount buys. Like, twice a RL week, you can go to one of two wagonyards in the known and sell a mount to an NPC there at 80% new price. What's great about this is that it creates a new interaction point for finding a lost/stolen mount, and actually improves the PC-to-PC market for mount buying (because you know folks will be there selling mounts).

[markable]: If you didn't know, the very first thing your mount thief does is retitle the critter...sorry. Add code to allow mount branding by players so you can identify your own mount MUCH more surely. Several options:
- Tweak tattoo code so that any tattooist in game can apply a tattoo to a mount. E.g.: "buy #5 mount" applies the tattoo to your hitched animal.
- Add mount branding NPCs like the tattooists.
- Create branding objects with a Javascript. Make sure these are custom-craftable. For simplicity, just make rebranding impossible.

[stealable]: damn those elves.

[Maso]

I basically love all of this.

I would just say the real top tier, expensive mounts would probably need some edge over the ones we have now (even if it's just cooler sdescs or rarer 'animals' but with the same stats)...just to take the sting out of it. The ones we have now could get upped a little bit in price...maybe nerfed a little bit in stats and then a lower tier brought in... As it would be a wee bit jarring for everything to just entirely change.

It could happen gradually, start introducing old/tired/worn out mounts first, then start sneaking in a couple of quality mounts here and there, maybe new breeds are revealed etc.

[Obeliskocism]

A thought I had while reading that original thread:

What if mounts still cost the same, but had dramatically reduced lifespans more in line with real world insects.

This would mean that starting warbeetle is still obtainable by a relatively new character, but if the character becomes long-lived they will need to be replacing that warbeetle periodically.  Many insects in the real world have lifespans on the order of days or weeks, and very few live for years on end.

Inix, sunbacks, oxen, gwoshi, etc. might have longer lifespans, and for that reason maybe the non-insect mounts go into a different price tier.

just a thought....

[Ulga]

Sounds solid, Brytta! All of it!

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'm so very behind all of this.

[Barsook]

I'm so very behind all of this.

[Shaydee]

I'm so very behind all of this.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

[stealable]: damn those elves.

This is the only thing I disagree with. While I don't dislike the idea behind it, I don't like it in terms of how hitch works. So I'd throw this caveat in - let them steal the mount if the hitchee is not in the room. But if I'm in the room with the hitched mount, I think it's too much. Usually, it means I'm standing there holding the reins.

So ... uh ... other than that, yes to it all.

[Shaydee]

[stealable]: damn those elves.

This is the only thing I disagree with. While I don't dislike the idea behind it, I don't like it in terms of how hitch works. So I'd throw this caveat in - let them steal the mount if the hitchee is not in the room. But if I'm in the room with the hitched mount, I think it's too much. Usually, it means I'm standing there holding the reins.

So ... uh ... other than that, yes to it all.

+1

I hadn't thought ot that but now that it is said, yes.

[Brytta Léofa]

But if I'm in the room with the hitched mount, I think it's too much. Usually, it means I'm standing there holding the reins.

Hah, this one was a stretch. The more general version is: right now, "hitched mount in the same room as me" gives 100% protection against theft. Maybe that should be more like 70% for some optimal combination of: thief stealth, thief ride skill, mount type, victim perception, thief willingness to risk various combat dangers vs. rider or vs.  mount...

Moving like a shadow--less than a shadow--in the twilight, the wily half-elf slips under the fence rail of the exercise yard.
Closer-- closer-- with a spring of powerful legs, the wily half-elf snatches a lead rope right out of the rugged, stubble-bearded templar's hand and vaults onto the mount.

> mount bronze steal
The wily half-elf tugs a muscular, bronze-shelled inix's lead rope out of the rugged, stubble-bearded templar's hand!
The wily half-elf narrowly avoids a muscular, bronze-shelled inix's charge.
The wily half-elf swings up into the saddle of a muscular, bronze-shelled inix.

The wily half-elf shouts, in stacatto-accented sirihish,
  "lol u guys suck bite me amos"
The wily half-elf says, out of character:
  "...samos"
Hell for leather, the wily half-elf runs south, riding a muscular, bronze-shelled inix.

Snatching a hitched mount with hitchee in another room is already possible in at least some cases.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

But if I'm in the room with the hitched mount, I think it's too much. Usually, it means I'm standing there holding the reins.

Hah, this one was a stretch. The more general version is: right now, "hitched mount in the same room as me" gives 100% protection against theft. Maybe that should be more like 70% for some optimal combination of: thief stealth, thief ride skill, mount type, victim perception, thief willingness to risk various combat dangers vs. rider or vs.  mount...

Moving like a shadow--less than a shadow--in the twilight, the wily half-elf slips under the fence rail of the exercise yard.
Closer-- closer-- with a spring of powerful legs, the wily half-elf snatches a lead rope right out of the rugged, stubble-bearded templar's hand and vaults onto the mount.

> mount bronze steal
The wily half-elf tugs a muscular, bronze-shelled inix's lead rope out of the rugged, stubble-bearded templar's hand!
The wily half-elf narrowly avoids a muscular, bronze-shelled inix's charge.
The wily half-elf swings up into the saddle of a muscular, bronze-shelled inix.

The wily half-elf shouts, in stacatto-accented sirihish,
  "lol u guys suck bite me amos"
The wily half-elf says, out of character:
  "...samos"
Hell for leather, the wily half-elf runs south, riding a muscular, bronze-shelled inix.

Snatching a hitched mount with hitchee in another room is already possible in at least some cases.

Oh ... mmm, I like this. This, or some variation of this, I'll back.

[Wedi]

But if I'm in the room with the hitched mount, I think it's too much. Usually, it means I'm standing there holding the reins.

Hah, this one was a stretch. The more general version is: right now, "hitched mount in the same room as me" gives 100% protection against theft. Maybe that should be more like 70% for some optimal combination of: thief stealth, thief ride skill, mount type, victim perception, thief willingness to risk various combat dangers vs. rider or vs.  mount...

Moving like a shadow--less than a shadow--in the twilight, the wily half-elf slips under the fence rail of the exercise yard.
Closer-- closer-- with a spring of powerful legs, the wily half-elf snatches a lead rope right out of the rugged, stubble-bearded templar's hand and vaults onto the mount.

> mount bronze steal
The wily half-elf tugs a muscular, bronze-shelled inix's lead rope out of the rugged, stubble-bearded templar's hand!
The wily half-elf narrowly avoids a muscular, bronze-shelled inix's charge.
The wily half-elf swings up into the saddle of a muscular, bronze-shelled inix.

The wily half-elf shouts, in stacatto-accented sirihish,
  "lol u guys suck bite me amos"
The wily half-elf says, out of character:
  "...samos"
Hell for leather, the wily half-elf runs south, riding a muscular, bronze-shelled inix.

Snatching a hitched mount with hitchee in another room is already possible in at least some cases.

This would be awesome.

[Ulga]

The thief's steal skill vs the hitcher's ride skill, then upon success, the mount charges, and the thief makes a dex saving throw? Thats how I'd roll it on tabletop, to steal such a large, valuable, living object.

[Narf]

The thief's steal skill vs the hitcher's ride skill, then upon success, the mount charges, and the thief makes a dex saving throw? Thats how I'd roll it on tabletop, to steal such a large, valuable, living object.

The thief's sap skill versus the target's endurance.

The thief's backstab skill versus the target's dodge.

The thief's "Gimme yer stuff or I'll kill you, mate" skill versus the target's common sense.

[williamson]

You can steal hitched mounts now. However,  you use the sap skill instead of the steal skill.

[WarriorPoet]

Gets my vote.

Solid mounts should be status symbols. The peasants cane ride lame, half-dead old kanks.

#Kanks4Ev

[Brytta Léofa]

Obviously this is all just cover for me wanting to ride into town on a phat mount while the haters watch.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Obviously this is all just cover for me wanting to ride into town on a phat mount while the haters watch.

I mean, you're setting yourself up to have it stolen from you too, so I'm alright with that being your driving desire.

[LindseyBalboa]

This is an effective moneysink that doesn't make life harder for anyone but allows people to spend money on flashier items - that may or may not be better beyond value. 100% approve.

[Veselka]

Beyond flashy new mounts of varying stamina grades (which I imagine is all that would be possible, beyond money spends for custom cool descs):

ARMOR AND WEAPONS NEED TO FUCKING BREAK. ALL THE TIME.

Like, all the time.

I work in the craft industry, and modern materials break down all the time. We're talking about pot metal, factory manufactured metal objects.

Bone. Obsidian. Glass.

Break please.

Thank you.

Brought to you by Make Zalanthas Poor Again. This message has been approved by Tektolnes.

[Lotion]

as long as equipment degradation doesn't lead to gameplay that doesn't feel like busywork it probably wouldn't be so bad

[Hauwke]

as long as equipment degradation doesn't lead to gameplay that doesn't feel like busywork it probably wouldn't be so bad

It would lead to busywork in the sense that you would need to spend some time getting new gear every so often.

It would also lead to an actual use to carrying multiple weapons.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

as long as equipment degradation doesn't lead to gameplay that doesn't feel like busywork it probably wouldn't be so bad

It would lead to busywork in the sense that you would need to spend some time getting new gear every so often.

It would also lead to an actual use to carrying multiple weapons.

Very much all of this. Look, we complain money is too easy to get. I can't imagine degrading weapons or mounts that die would be a game-breaking change.

[Wedi]

Beyond flashy new mounts of varying stamina grades (which I imagine is all that would be possible, beyond money spends for custom cool descs):

ARMOR AND WEAPONS NEED TO FUCKING BREAK. ALL THE TIME.

Like, all the time.

I work in the craft industry, and modern materials break down all the time. We're talking about pot metal, factory manufactured metal objects.

Bone. Obsidian. Glass.

Break please.

Thank you.

Brought to you by Make Zalanthas Poor Again. This message has been approved by Tektolnes.

I am alright with his as long as there is a repair shop for weapons like there is for armor.