Author Topic: How do you deal with meta-gaming?  (Read 982 times)

Ulga

  • Posts: 41
How do you deal with meta-gaming?
« on: February 21, 2021, 03:54:40 AM »
Sooo, sometimes, I run into PCs who are blatantly meta-gaming, and it is pretty irritating. If we were around the table, it would be as simple as to say "Uhh... Yeah, how would your character /know/ that, exactly?" Or the DM to put a stop to meta-gamey behavior in an instant. I dont want to say anything IG about it when it happens, because I dont want to ruin immersion, so I'm at a loss on what to do about it.
Any tips from veterans?

Maso

  • Posts: 4045
Re: How do you deal with meta-gaming?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2021, 05:32:32 AM »
Honestly, it depends a lot on the context.

It's fine and dandy for a player to use certain gained knowledge to roll a character with a certain amount of knowledge. E.g. a player knows a lot about different herbs and cures, they can roll a character with a background that involves an upbringing by a skilled, tribal alchemist who brought them along foraging and taught them a lot about plants etc.

If you feel like someone is being meta in this way, then your character can always poke and prod at them IC'ly, if it's appropriate to do so. Asking a character how they know something or where they learned something at least challenges them into coming up with some appropriate and possibly entertaining RP to justify it.

If we are talking more like...they know personal information about certain people or plots with their freshly rolled newb grebber...then that's another story and it probably wouldn't hurt to send a request in about it. Additionally, if said use of information is about to lead to your very untimely death, perhaps a wish up wouldn't hurt. Although, I would always consider that you may not have all the information, and there's always a chance that your accused metagamer may not be metagaming at all - hence why passing it to the staff (our DMs) to resolve is probably the best course.
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triste

  • Posts: 959
Re: How do you deal with meta-gaming?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2021, 09:46:43 AM »
Just a quick note as a player known metagamers love to fuck with: do whatever you can to be invisible. Make a clan specific account. Don't get on any of the Armageddon discord servers. Your best defense against those who are going to cheat in this way is to just be invisible, totally extricate yourself from OOC and focus on the roleplay.

I hate the gendered turn of phrase here but IMO your only option is to "be the better man." Metagamers delight in the ease of denying accusations so you just have to go high when they go low. That's how I handle it anyway.
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triste

  • Posts: 959
Re: How do you deal with meta-gaming?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2021, 09:56:45 AM »
And yes I said Armageddon servers to be cheeky. There is one official Armageddon server. There are unofficial servers full of metagamers. I think I've seen two, reported the one full of clowns who seemed less likely to ruin my life in retaliation and it got shut down. Yes I am a "snitch" and if anything this anecdote shows my cowardly true neutral alignment. I made a cost benefit analysis of how many "friends" I wanted to lose for the sake of the game

TLDR If you do uncover metagaming / unofficial Armageddon servers / group chats where rule breaking is happening consider reporting it. But all of these people are connected and they will start calling you a "snitch" and shit if you do.
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Narf

  • Posts: 1019
Re: How do you deal with meta-gaming?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2021, 10:56:50 AM »
If someone knows something that would seem odd for my character, then I do a quick couple IC pokes to mention that it's odd and then leave it be.

If I can't mention it without breaking immersion, then I just ignore the person. Don't worry about being the RP police, it's not your job. If it's persistent then file a very polite player complaint, assuming the player doesn't know any better.  For little things that are hard to point out IC I find you're usually better off just ignoring them.

Fernandezj

  • Posts: 148
Re: How do you deal with meta-gaming?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2021, 12:16:44 PM »
Asking people ICly "how", or prodding a bit deeper, can also help break people out of meta-gaming behavior.

For example, if someone seems to be going somewhere they'dve never been before, like knowing how to get to Tuluk if they are from the 'Rinth or something, you might be able to ask them how they know where they're going, or who told them, or how they learned. This can sometimes shock them out of it. Since a lot of players sometimes don't think to build out those nuances over and over and over again, its sometimes more oversight than intentional.

If you mean more meta-gaming about PC knowledge... i.e. being contacted by someone shortly after you murder someone, or an entire group of players knowing stuff because they are friends outside the game, this is a problem that has been in the game for years and years and years and will never go away.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 02:44:13 PM by Fernandezj »

Dar

  • Posts: 1672
Re: How do you deal with meta-gaming?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2021, 02:14:34 PM »
In all honesty, I would advice filing a character complaint. Often enough people grow lax (speaking from experience) and allow the knowledge of their past characters trickle in. It's just a matter of getting a

Someone tells you,"Hello. I've been watching some of your scenes lately and have been wondering on the sources of your information."

And boom. The player tightens up his game. Uh huh, yup yup. No notes on the account. Everyone benefits.

If you are wrong. You'd get a reply something like, "Your character might find it odd that the person knows this. But we looked in and it's all kosher on our end."

Ulga

  • Posts: 41
Re: How do you deal with meta-gaming?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2021, 08:39:31 PM »
Thanks for the advice, everyone!

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Halcyon

  • Posts: 333
Re: How do you deal with meta-gaming?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2021, 06:54:38 AM »
I'll be the dissenting voice.

This game requires a certain amount of meta play.   If you walk out of the gates and go X rooms in Y direction, Z mob will kill any 0 day starting character.   Do you play without any map or recipe lists?  Based on this, I'm really not surprised there is a slippery slope on how much characters know.

I agree every character shouldnt know every secret, but as long as there is a karma regen timer, I think its safe to expect any karma role to be played as safely as possible.   Other mechanics and traditions reinforce this, I think.
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Riev

  • Posts: 5824
Re: How do you deal with meta-gaming?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2021, 09:22:43 AM »
Honestly, it depends a lot on the context.

It's fine and dandy for a player to use certain gained knowledge to roll a character with a certain amount of knowledge. E.g. a player knows a lot about different herbs and cures, they can roll a character with a background that involves an upbringing by a skilled, tribal alchemist who brought them along foraging and taught them a lot about plants etc.

Quoting for the best answer in the thread. Not every PC is a 20 year old farmboy that has never held a sword in his life. Sometimes, you're playing a grizzled veteran who knows a bunch of stuff, but his skills leave a bit to be desired. Sometimes, you're playing someone who lived with a bard-like storyteller and know some of the massive world events in more detail.

World/Coded knowledge is something that can vary from PC to PC. Personal knowledge of other PCs is often wildly off base, and this extends to "I know how Oashis treat their mages" from a character who is not Oashi, nor is a gemmed.

If it seems wildly out there, send in a complaint. I have one on my record, because I played a PC who learned a lot about the Tuluki Legions, because their father was a Legionnaire. The background got through, but eventually someone decided that I shouldn't know names or anything because the virtual father was in a different unit. I hadn't thought of it that way, and it helped for someone to poke at me.
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valeria

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Re: How do you deal with meta-gaming?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2021, 12:04:42 PM »
Any tips from veterans?

If it's negatively affecting your experience, toss in a player complaint and let staff look at it.

Me personally, I tend to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.  Do they deserve it?  Doubtful.  But I'm personally a lot happier when I don't let little shit get to me, and this is recreation, it's all about whether I'm enjoying myself.  It's not like anyone bending or breaking rules in a not particularly balanced free desert bone sword simulator is cheating me out of anything that matters.  Then again, I grew up with younger siblings, so I have an extensive background in people around me doing sketchy shit and me not wanting to bother unless it's directly wrecking my day.
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Veselka

  • Posts: 1226
Re: How do you deal with meta-gaming?
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2021, 10:48:08 PM »
Considering you are rarely (if ever) informed of the outcome of a player complaint, I would advise filing one if you feel that someone is acting in an incredibly meta fashion.

Let Staff make a ruling, and don't worry about it. It's far better (IMHO) than the IC prodding approach. I would treat OOC Meta Gaming Knowledge as entirely OOC.

In the example given further above of a 'rinther somehow knowing the way to Tuluk, that may arouse some level of IC Prodding / disbelief. But I wouldn't go out of my way to poke and prod, I'd leave that to Staff to judge. For all I know, that 'rinther used to go to Tuluk on the daily because they're a mad Whiran on a quest for kumquats.

The meta-game that gets me down is the insta-knowing where Kryl/Peraine poison is, going on buddy adventures to go get it, having all the cures, knowing all the secret spots, etc. I find that kind of stuff lame. I typically go a few months between playing outdoorsy characters just so I forget all that shit and can start from scratch.
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The7DeadlyVenomz

  • Posts: 9251
Re: How do you deal with meta-gaming?
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2021, 10:57:33 PM »
Any tips from veterans?

If it's negatively affecting your experience, toss in a player complaint and let staff look at it.

Me personally, I tend to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.  Do they deserve it?  Doubtful.  But I'm personally a lot happier when I don't let little shit get to me, and this is recreation, it's all about whether I'm enjoying myself.  It's not like anyone bending or breaking rules in a not particularly balanced free desert bone sword simulator is cheating me out of anything that matters.  Then again, I grew up with younger siblings, so I have an extensive background in people around me doing sketchy shit and me not wanting to bother unless it's directly wrecking my day.
Honestly, this is a prefect summation of my own feelings about meta-gaming. It just doesn't matter to me. Sometimes it's needed, and sometimes it's out of line. Sometimes I meta-game, when it involves things I should know, and sometimes I don't, when it involves some things I shouldn't know. Sometimes, I meta-game in order to be dumber IC.

And in the end, I don't care which one someone else is engaged in, as long as at the end of the day, I can have myself some roleplay.
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Lizzie

  • Posts: 8366
Re: How do you deal with meta-gaming?
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2021, 09:08:40 PM »
I'll be the dissenting voice.

This game requires a certain amount of meta play.   If you walk out of the gates and go X rooms in Y direction, Z mob will kill any 0 day starting character.   Do you play without any map or recipe lists?  Based on this, I'm really not surprised there is a slippery slope on how much characters know.

I agree every character shouldnt know every secret, but as long as there is a karma regen timer, I think its safe to expect any karma role to be played as safely as possible.   Other mechanics and traditions reinforce this, I think.

It really doesn't require that though.  When I started playing I didn't have a map, or recipes, I didn't know about the prompt or infobar. I didn't know I needed to keep an eye on my stamina or stun points. I didn't know the guy who brought my character into a shady clan was a sorcerer or whiran (I don't remember which it was). I didn't know what a mekillot was, or a jozhal.

And here's a biggie: I had no idea the GDB existed, until a couple of months after I started playing.

 I was playing a burglar and didn't know how to get a lockpick.  I ended up a templar's aide while being in the shady clan and spying on behalf of an oash noble. The templar got killed or stored or something and I went to Oash, being a double-agent for the shady clan and the noble house. I got assassinated gloriously by the shady clan boss because some -other- person put out a hit on me.

I got into all kinds of shenanegans for months, that I was mostly oblivious about, naive, and had a blast the whole time. I know I'm not the only one who started with no info.
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Inks

  • Posts: 1425
Re: How do you deal with meta-gaming?
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2021, 11:01:11 PM »
Oh gawd. I too remember that new player lockpick nightmare.

Regarding subject. My four stages I progress through depending.


1. Benefit of doubt

2. Call out ridiculous play IC

3. Question/Request asking about discrepencies.

4. Complaint
« Last Edit: February 26, 2021, 11:03:52 PM by Inks »
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