Author Topic: For craft's sake!  (Read 1268 times)

Malken

  • Posts: 9223
Re: For craft's sake!
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2021, 01:17:46 PM »
Armageddon Remasteresurrected
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

Maso

  • Posts: 4045
Re: For craft's sake!
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2021, 01:25:34 PM »
Armageddon Remasteresurrected

Roll a character, you.  8)
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The7DeadlyVenomz

  • Posts: 9251
Re: For craft's sake!
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2021, 02:01:11 PM »
For a game that isn't showing any signs of stopping for the forseeable future, it's a shame that it would be a massive undertaking and way too much work to move the game to a more modern codebase so things aren't as limited as they are.
Well, it would be a massive project, but, the real problem last time came from building an entirely new world, honestly, while also building a custom mud code. If we used an established, more modern codebase, and transposed the world we have now onto that code, in theory, it would be much easier. And there are a ton of newer codebases out there, with a ton of various features.

I say in theory. I have built a MUD world before, completely from scratch, and basically by myself. I've done it twice. And while, granted, I didn't know how to code back then, and while the worlds were somewhat small, I know it's doable. Our game world is relatively large, but a month of copy and paste by dedicated builders will get the room descriptions done (and that's honestly probably longer than needed, just for descriptions and room names and setting room types and stuff). The next five months could be given to pushing the more complex stuff forward to a playable point, and feasibly, I bet we could do a halfway decent port of the game in 6 months.

Obviously, the game would be different. But I think nearly everything could be brought over and with far more innovation possible in the future because of the enhanced code base.

But there certainly is no doubt it's a massive project. I think the question, "Is it worth it in the long run?" is the actual caveat. I think it would be, perhaps with a year's timeframe in mind or something, so that you have enough time to check and double check things.
Wynning since October 25, 2008.

>craft newbie into good player

You accidentally snap newbie into useless pieces.


Discord:The7DeadlyVenomz#3870

Delirium

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  • Posts: 12122
Re: For craft's sake!
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2021, 02:18:05 PM »
Considering Arm 2.0 nearly killed Arm 1.0 ... I don't think it's worth it. My two cents.
"There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." - Schmendrick

triste

  • Posts: 959
Re: For craft's sake!
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2021, 02:39:21 PM »
I swear I will shut up but I think that's a solid opinion to have. Armageddon is an RPI above all, and people continue to talk about radical refactoring in the name of non-roleplay related features--now, I am not saying no new features ever, but we need to continue to run cost benefit analyses. I didn't see the Armageddon 2.0 drama first hand TBH but I appreciate this vet saying it nearly killed the game. "Game maybe dying" is definitely something to add to the cost column on the cost benefit analysis here. All arguments in favor need to be really damned well worth it if possible game death is in the other column. I also don't see "boon to roleplay" in the benefit column and I would like for anything that calls for tons of dev time to strengthen RP.
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message me if something there needs an update.

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Malken

  • Posts: 9223
Re: For craft's sake!
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2021, 03:54:57 PM »
Switching codebase means trusting the code to someone else and I don't think that's going to happen.

Is anyone even allowed to touch Armageddon's code aside from nessalin and Nathvaan?

You'd also need to find someone who understands both C and whatever the language of the new codebase is as well.
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

The7DeadlyVenomz

  • Posts: 9251
Re: For craft's sake!
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2021, 05:01:37 PM »
Considering Arm 2.0 nearly killed Arm 1.0 ... I don't think it's worth it. My two cents.
Yeah, that hurt a lot, but I feel like Arm 2.0 almost killed Arm 1.0 because of how different the setting was and because of trying to basically recreate the world in a different image. I think that if Arm 2.0 had been simply transplanting the existing world into a new, more robust codebase, it would have been way more well received, and we'd be playing in it now.

I swear I will shut up but I think that's a solid opinion to have. Armageddon is an RPI above all, and people continue to talk about radical refactoring in the name of non-roleplay related features--now, I am not saying no new features ever, but we need to continue to run cost benefit analyses. I didn't see the Armageddon 2.0 drama first hand TBH but I appreciate this vet saying it nearly killed the game. "Game maybe dying" is definitely something to add to the cost column on the cost benefit analysis here. All arguments in favor need to be really damned well worth it if possible game death is in the other column. I also don't see "boon to roleplay" in the benefit column and I would like for anything that calls for tons of dev time to strengthen RP.
What in God's name makes you think that anything we ever suggest is not for the sake of the roleplay in this game? I swear, you rant on and on about this  issue, but not a single thing I see suggested is intended to hinder roleplay. You keep acting as though this is a MUSH, and it's not. We need code to back roleplay. Everytime we suggest a code change, it's to iron out things about the code that hurt roleplay.
Wynning since October 25, 2008.

>craft newbie into good player

You accidentally snap newbie into useless pieces.


Discord:The7DeadlyVenomz#3870

creeper386

  • Posts: 2628
Re: For craft's sake!
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2021, 05:16:56 PM »
I'd imagine if it was planned out to transplant the world over ... Could possibly automate recreating new rooms and areas from current rooms and areas. I've poked into a few different MUD code and often a lot of the structure isn't drastically different.

I don't think the world needs to change in my opinion. At least in any drastic ways. But I do think the old code base limits development, either new features not being plausible or slows dev time(I try to make no assumptions of what our codebase is like, but with only a few devs and over this length of time I can't help but imagine there is problems). Although I think a switch to a new codebase would take time and resources to try and keep the same Arm feel, it might be worth it, but I'm not sure it'd be doable with just one or two devs either. So I doubt it'll ever be done.


BUT, I still strongly thing some things need to be looked at and although I do think crafting could use a face lift ... in the least there could be tools to make it more manageable.
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