H-Giants and Zweihanders

[Teleri]

If half-giants are what their name implies, I assume that they should be generally immensely physically powerful, and have the strength of two or more Zalanthan men.  Additionally, I assume that their hands would be quite large in comparison to those of most other races.  So, given that, I believe that half-giant characters should have the ability to wield some weapons that require two hands for smaller races in one hand.  To me, this is just common sense, because of the sheer power of the half-giants and their great size.

Two-handed swords, long spears, some big axes, and some big blunt weapons are the types of arms which I think half-giants should be capable of wielding in one hand.  If a strong human is able to effectively use a two-handed sword in both hands, I believe that a half-giant (who are, I believe, at least twice as large as the average human) should be able to use it as a bastard sword or one-handed blade.  After all, the half-giant probably has as much, if not more, strength in his or her one arm as that human has in both.  That, and their hands are probably twice as large or more.

Polearms (such as halberds, bardiches, voulges, glaives, ect....), and probably quite a few solid stone (ie, granite) weapons should probably still require two half-giant hands to use properly.  This is mostly in the interests of a slightly more balanced approached to this tweak of the code, as a half-giant wielding two halberds at once would be kind of silly and unbalanced, in my opinion.  

Now, it could be that I'm just grossly overestimating the capabilities of a half-giant, but I think that this change is quite logical.  After all, if half-giants can carry huge boulders around and act like carts (or pull them), I think they can handle a two-handed sword in just one hand.  Also, I could be mistaken in my assumption that standard weapons in the game are  NOT automatically sized for the race buying it.  If the weapons were sized and selected for different races, then a h-giant's dagger would be something like a sword to an average human.

So...does anyone think that this is a good, and even a possible tweak to the coding of some weapons?  Maybe a flag or a variable could be added to some of them, so that when the code detects a h-giant using the weapon, it can be wielded in just one hand.

[creeper386]

I really think it's already coded this way. Or at least in part.

I've seen heavy weapons that are wielded in one hand with a strong character and having to wield the same weapon in two hands with a weaker character.

Maybe some weapons are hardcoded to what they can be but I think alot of it is already dependant on strength. I could always be completely wrong though.

Creeper

[John]

IMO some polearms SHOULD be able to be used in one hand for a Half-Giant. It's a simple case of sizes and styles. A human wielding a quarter staff (not sure if there are quarter staves in game or not, but for the sake of this post...) wields it with both hands and as such would use both ends. However a Half-Giant using a quarter-staff wouldn't be able to hold it in both hands like a human does, simply because of size. A Half-Giant is about double the size of the average Human. Simple logistics dictates that a Half-Giant cannot use a quarter staff in the same way a human does. They can use it as a club, but I personally think it would shatter (if made of wood) within moments.

However, a quarter-staff built for a Half-Giant's size would need to e-two it I don't know what voulges and glaiver's are, so I can only comment on quarter-staffs.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Though your raise some good point, I simply must ask...

If you're going to allow half-giants to swing around two zweihanders, than will they still be allowed to use daggers? I, personally, think a half-giant's hands would be to large to wield and use a small, complex weapon like a dagger effectively.

Not bashing your ideas, just saying if you want to revamp the wielding code, you might as well cover all your bases, so to speak.

[Teleri]

FDM wrote:

If you're going to allow half-giants to swing around two zweihanders, than will they still be allowed to use daggers?

I hadn't thought about that before, but I suppose since some weapons are so small in comparison to a half-giants hands (like a dagger, shortsword, etc), then the half-giants should not be able to wield them.  That, or they should suffer major penalties to speed when using them, and have a much higher chance to break them upon impact.  A half-giant's inability to use such smaller weapons effectively would also probably even out their abilities with smaller races, because then they would have less weapons to be able to use well.  If a half-giant wanted a dagger, they could always have one made for them, as well as other such weapons.  

creeper wrote:

I really think it's already coded this way. Or at least in part.

In my experience, yes, there is already some coding in place which allows characters with higher strengths to use some "smaller" two-handed weapons in just one hand.  However, this does not seem to apply to all weapons, and I think you're right in that some objects are hard-coded to be used in two hands.  To rectify this, the two-handed requirement for such weapons should be removed for half-giants.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I like your train of thought, Terli. Here is my stance.

I think that all weapons should be coded e-two, ep and es. They should all have a coded size and weight as well. I think that your character's size and strength should play a factor in how that weapon can be used by you specifically.

While I can see a half-giant using a dagger, I do not see speed being reduced. In fact, in the hands of a half-giant, a dagger should be useless, and would be just as fast as a half-giant swinging his fists. I mean, literally. A half-giant would punch easier than he would use any sort of dagger. A longknife could serve a half-giant as a decent dagger.

By the same token, a child should be able to use a knife in both hands. A child of 13 that is about 3'5" tall and 80 pounds will be able to use a dagger almost like a sword. By the same token, a child that age will have to use a shortsword with both hands unless the weapon is designed soley for him.

The coded size and weight system would also not allow very powerful short races, for example the mul, to use every two-handed weapon with one hand, because the weapon is too large for them to use effectively, though it is not too heavy.

If the ep, es , and etwo flags are swapped out, and a system for weight and size is implemented, I think that the weapons situation will be rectified.

On this same note, one should be able to attack while using two shields. There is no reason that they should not be able to.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Let me just clarify some things and hope that I'm not revealing too much IC information.

Teleri, you aren't overestimating the size and strength of a half-giant, you are underestimating it.  Anybody that takes a good look at a half-giant should be able to realize that while they are only about twice as tall as a human, they weigh approximately TEN TIMES AS MUCH.  A half-giants hand is about the size of a humans chest.  Their physical power is nothing short of ungodly.

The second point is in regards to half-giants using daggers.  What I imagine, is that a half-giant would be completely incapable of using any human sized weapon, due to the size of their hands and their size in general.  Now, there are a handful of weapons coded specifically for half-giants to use, but I think, just as a half-giant needs to have armor his size, weapons need to be his size as well.  So in other words, if a half-giant has a dagger, then it is a weapon as long as your arm and as thick at the base as your shoulders are wide.  Getting backstabbed by a half-giant would be like getting impaled on a mekillot's tooth.

[jhunter(notlogged)]

I don't even think a half-giant should be able to wield human-sized polearms, yes a HG would be able to hold it in one hand and swing it easily, but I don't think the shaft would be able to withstand the force a half-giant could produce with that swing.
Think about it, a human-sized polearm's shaft would be almost like a long tooth-pick to a half-giant, a HG could probably easily snap it between it's fingers.
IMO, there should only be certain human-sized weapons a half-giant could use and very few of those.

[EvilRoeSlade]

As I said...

Since there is no code for the size of a weapon, it should be assumed that if a half-giant is carrying a weapon, that weapon has been created to be used by a half-giant.

[Anonymous]

I'd rather see more half-giant sized weapons than see them using under-sized humanoid weapons.

A couple big HG stores in the two cities?  I just don't see a lot of HG gear, and when you are twice the height, human-size weapons are half the size, meaning they are less effective at Half-Giant height than would be weapons made for giants.