Author Topic: The Allanak Problem  (Read 31365 times)

Spiceoflife

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Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2020, 06:42:39 PM »
I still think the Tuluk fort should be given a Templar to recruit a unit of Sun Legion and wipe out the horrible gicks hiding in the north and maybe running Morins.. Or even a Tuluki noble house governor in Morins with a unit of witch/undesirable hunters.. (Lyksae?)

triste

  • Posts: 1048
Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2020, 07:10:50 PM »
I still think the Tuluk fort should be given a Templar to recruit a unit of Sun Legion and wipe out the horrible gicks hiding in the north and maybe running Morins.. Or even a Tuluki noble house governor in Morins with a unit of witch/undesirable hunters.. (Lyksae?)

I love this idea and it's variants whenever it comes up. The other variant is open Jihaeans and 1-3 Tuluki Houses. It would be all you need to have enough of a "presence." Even your idea of having just one unit would be fun as a sort of "one shot campaign" similar to what some folks here are asking for.
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Brokkr

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Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2020, 07:42:36 PM »
If you want to play a Tuluki, nothing is preventing you from playing a Tuluki (born in Morins, if less than 40-something years old).

Also, all the Templars outside of Tuluk are really old at this point, if you've been paying attention to the math.

Hauwke

  • Posts: 2308
Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #53 on: August 19, 2020, 08:10:34 PM »
If you want to play a Tuluki, nothing is preventing you from playing a Tuluki (born in Morins, if less than 40-something years old).

Also, all the Templars outside of Tuluk are really old at this point, if you've been paying attention to the math.

But that's not playing a real Tuluki citizen though, is it? That's playing a citizen of Morins who has a Tuluk tattoo.

Also, why can't anything be done to fix the issue of them all being old? I can't imagine they would do absolutely nothing and just die out of old age.

Barsook

  • Posts: 8693
Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #54 on: August 19, 2020, 08:37:58 PM »
Somewhere in the thread, the "big baddie" was brought up and I kind of wish it was either (or even both) the Sandlord (who could turn out to be a lady) or Luir's himself. I would want go back to when there was undead baddies from what I heard.

Aruven

  • Posts: 2617
Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #55 on: August 19, 2020, 10:42:52 PM »
If you want to play a Tuluki, nothing is preventing you from playing a Tuluki (born in Morins, if less than 40-something years old).

Also, all the Templars outside of Tuluk are really old at this point, if you've been paying attention to the math.

Yes, you are free to play a (explicitly staff stated) indy northerner with no staff support whatsoever. (Maybe this has changed as a policy?)

Did you play when Tuluk was part of the game? I think most of what people miss in Tuluk is when the game had a large focus on the story, over the mechanics. It gave the world a massive scope compared to what it is, it really did.

 I remember when A southern Templar and a northern Templar conducted a whole formal alliance to fight dragon sworn. Shit like that really captivates and drives player attention and participation.

I don't know why, but it just seems like you guys are super intent on not listening to player input about this issue. I mean the amount of people who have brought up and longed for tuluk even on these boards is overwhelming--But what they get is an administrator trying to persuade them that they must be mistaken. I don't understand. I also play in bursts and don't put near as much time in anymore, so maybe i'm just missing all the excitement that started this thread in the first place.

Code additions? They've been amazing. Super high quality of life stuff, genuinely.

My input comes from a place of actually REALLY coming to like allanak in the consolidation. I would hate to see you guys continue stripping allanak of playable clans and such, especially physical rooms.

Spiceoflife

  • Posts: 103
Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #56 on: August 19, 2020, 11:26:00 PM »
So Tuluk is there and shouldn't be ignored. but "the Templars outside are all old". So do we ignore them since templars are not coming out to protect their lands?

Brokkr

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Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2020, 11:43:37 PM »
If you want to play a Tuluki, nothing is preventing you from playing a Tuluki (born in Morins, if less than 40-something years old).

Also, all the Templars outside of Tuluk are really old at this point, if you've been paying attention to the math.

But that's not playing a real Tuluki citizen though, is it? That's playing a citizen of Morins who has a Tuluk tattoo.

Also, why can't anything be done to fix the issue of them all being old? I can't imagine they would do absolutely nothing and just die out of old age.

There is no such thing as a citizen of Morins.  Morins before the fall was mostly rented to Kadius, but it was always Tuluk property, with Tuluk citizens, outside of the foreign workers associated with Kadius.

As far as being old, I mean, how would you fix it?

Did you play when Tuluk was part of the game?

Yes.  And I really liked playing there.  And then the Cataclysm came and burned it all down.  Filthy magickers.

Brokkr

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Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #58 on: August 19, 2020, 11:45:29 PM »
So Tuluk is there and shouldn't be ignored. but "the Templars outside are all old". So do we ignore them since templars are not coming out to protect their lands?

Maybe just don't ignore being a Tuluki when you are playing a Tuluki.

SodaDogARM

  • Posts: 83
Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #59 on: August 19, 2020, 11:53:38 PM »
Every conversation devolving into "reopen Tuluk" is annoying but a majority of the staff responses telling people that it can't open because of the IC reasons, or plain old saying players don't actually want Tuluk reopened, doesn't seem to help put the issue to bed. If staff created a locked or unlocked thread about "why Tuluk isn't being reopened now" that delved into the logistical reasons instead we might be able to maintain a discussion that doesn't touch upon it.

Hauwke

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Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #60 on: August 19, 2020, 11:56:55 PM »
If you want to play a Tuluki, nothing is preventing you from playing a Tuluki (born in Morins, if less than 40-something years old).

Also, all the Templars outside of Tuluk are really old at this point, if you've been paying attention to the math.

But that's not playing a real Tuluki citizen though, is it? That's playing a citizen of Morins who has a Tuluk tattoo.

Also, why can't anything be done to fix the issue of them all being old? I can't imagine they would do absolutely nothing and just die out of old age.

There is no such thing as a citizen of Morins.  Morins before the fall was mostly rented to Kadius, but it was always Tuluk property, with Tuluk citizens, outside of the foreign workers associated with Kadius.

As far as being old, I mean, how would you fix it?

Did you play when Tuluk was part of the game?

Yes.  And I really liked playing there.  And then the Cataclysm came and burned it all down.  Filthy magickers.

I would fix it by changing the docs to allow for younger ones to be present. It may not even require extensive change. Time passes, they now train new ones to take up the mantle and the old pass their power on.

People change over decades, Brokkr. They aren't stupid people, the Templars are some of the only educated people in the Known.

Kyviantre

  • Posts: 682
Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #61 on: August 20, 2020, 07:47:26 AM »
Also, all the Templars outside of Tuluk are really old at this point, if you've been paying attention to the math.
Also, why can't anything be done to fix the issue of them all being old? I can't imagine they would do absolutely nothing and just die out of old age.

As far as being old, I mean, how would you fix it?

...did they not have little Templary babies?
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Gentleboy

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Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #62 on: August 20, 2020, 07:59:10 AM »
I was going to post that I'd like to keep this thread about Allanak and not Tuluk, but I understand now that you cannot talk about Allanak without talking about Tuluk. Which sucks because I've never known Tuluk, seen it, experienced it and I'm supposed to just...hate it as a new player if I play in the South. Which feels silly. Cause how can I hate something I've never seen or truly know about? I guess it makes it real with xenophobia in a lot of causes..assuming the worst.. but- you get my point.

New players are told to stick to Allanak. We are told to join the Byn or a different clan. Okay, none of the merchants are in Nak. They're in Luir's a lot (who can blame them) which leaves crafters aimless or trying to get to Luir's. So- that drives one portion of players out. Then we are told to join the Byn where we aren't paid, can't go outside, and only advance combat skills. I've always been a fan of the Garrison because of 1. getting paid. 2. The gorgeous plans/schedule/formations made by a particular player. 3. The survival training and outside outpost training you are SUPPOSED to get.

In Allanak, new players are told to stay in the walls. Sometimes we're thrown a creature name from the North here and there that we don't know. Whatever.

I have a lot of issues with the timeline of Allanak too and how history is conveniently forgotten in a lot of cases. Nothing gets learnt. Borsail's whole mansion got burnt down at one point. Sewer wars. Dwarf uprisings. What else? History is hidden from new players till it's told to them oocly through discord. There is no history lessons, no storytellers you can pay in the city. Someone told me you can pay bards all over Tuluk to tell little tales. That's so cool. Vennat or whatever, the barkeeper in the Gaj is talking about Earthquakes still. I've never seen a fucking earthquake or felt one in Allanak.

Allanak is supposed to be an oasis from the hard outside. It has shade, food, water, materials, medicine. But so does everywhere else now. Red Storm (my favorite place) can take care of you easily after two days of skilling up forage. Luir's- people just throw shit at you for free.  Cause free-thinking people tend to head to Luir's or stay in the wastes and then use Luir's as their hub cause the North has plenty to explore and no Templars or milita to interrogate you every time you come back from killing a single chalton. I love templar interaction, but, I don't care for instantly being labeled a criminal because a templar hasn't seen me before and I'm an assumed outsider .

I'm trying to think about other issues I also have with Allanak, a place I will gladly choose second under Red Storm.

I dunno, maybe the fact that after I amount some coin, I have no place safe to put the things my character cherishes like gifts. Even if you become like a big merchant or independent, you will get your apartment not just stolen from, but clean out, entirely. And that's not cool or very elf of you. We are told if you want safety, make coin. But there is nowhere safe to stash the things your character loves. It doesn't even need to be rare! It can be as stupid as some drums or like...a linen shirt or I dunno just an awl. Hide your tools cause apparently, these miscreant classes need awls and tools so badly, they will take them over and over.

Allanak doesn't feel like a believable place to live too at times. It feels more like a place to work and people can commute to...from the Gaj. I guess. Cause, for a big city with hundreds and thousands of people about, everyone either is a "well, I guueeeeesss I'll dedicate my life to the highlord" or "I'm just doing my year here before actually doing what I want." Allanak is a hurdle for many that we need to get through and yeah, that won't make me love a city. It makes me resent it and talk shit about it as soon as I leave it.

Barsook

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Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #63 on: August 20, 2020, 08:10:03 AM »
The lack of history keeping is one the other main issues that I have work Allanak also. I love to explore the lore of the game more than the environment. Aside from House Sath not having an estate, I think that clan needs to be opened work a noble and an Allanaki lore keepers. In the flip side, do we need another open clan?

Gentleboy

  • Posts: 281
Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #64 on: August 20, 2020, 08:11:09 AM »
I still think the Tuluk fort should be given a Templar to recruit a unit of Sun Legion and wipe out the horrible gicks hiding in the north and maybe running Morins.. Or even a Tuluki noble house governor in Morins with a unit of witch/undesirable hunters.. (Lyksae?)

Also, yo, this idea is gooooood. I'm imagining the inquisitor from Pathologic 2.

triste

  • Posts: 1048
Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2020, 08:31:43 AM »
The lack of history keeping is one the other main issues that I have work Allanak also. I love to explore the lore of the game more than the environment. Aside from House Sath not having an estate, I think that clan needs to be opened work a noble and an Allanaki lore keepers. In the flip side, do we need another open clan?

Anyone with literacy or an interest in lore could be a lore keeper. I always kudos characters who share lore IG, and Gentleboy's comment about "only learning history OOCly" makes me 100% satisfied with my decision to ignore Discord [which is well established to be nothing but a canker sore that oozes pus and OOC information].


I always joke that if I ever get a GMH role [which will never happen but I'll keep applying!] that I'd basically just write and read books all day because I am also hungry for that lore and would try to chronicle as much history as possible, because agreed, this does not happen enough in game. I was excited for two entire seconds when the Atrium opened figuring it would be wonderful for teaching lore, but of course it's so exclusive as not to meaningfully change much culturally.
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triste

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Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #66 on: August 20, 2020, 09:18:00 AM »
Here's a dumb random idea for making Allanak suck less.

Bring back more Arena events and Gladiator alt PCs. First, when I say this, I don't want to come across as once again criticizing staff, and I actually want to thank Caverin and other staff members who helped run the arena recently.

It gets back to the whole public versus private idea. Public arena events necessarily involve a ton of players. The bell mechanism ensures everyone can knows exactly when the event is happening.

For whatever reason one of the RPTs I thought about recently IRL? A scene from an Arena fight. Some of you all are great roleplayers and I adore good combat roleplay.

I also loved the way you could have a gladiator alt character because, of course, they are locked in the pens and thus safely separated from your full time PC, thus allowing you to have two PCs. More options for roleplay like that intrinsically rocks. If anything I think it would be wild and TONS of fun if EVERYONE could have a gladiator alt character and Arena events were automated and almost daily or weekly. I personally found gladiator alt characters extremely gratifying just because they would break up the ennui you might experience on your main character. I'd probably dump and rotate characters less frequently if I could reliably have a gladiator alt.

The lovely side effect of all of this; bringing more players to Allanak, if only by allowing someone with a rogue half-elven northern gick as their main PC to also play their gladiator alt character.

Wow, the first and only idea that irrefutably would bring more players to Allanak if only as a matter of a statistical fact.

Just a random idea. You might want some restrictions around it, like you can only log into your alt gladiator 2 hours a day + as long as events last. But it seems like a win-win-win idea. It also restores part of the documented setting that a lot of players enjoy playing out.
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Shaydee

  • Posts: 316
Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #67 on: August 20, 2020, 09:24:07 AM »
Here's a dumb random idea for making Allanak suck less.

Bring back more Arena events and Gladiator alt PCs. First, when I say this, I don't want to come across as once again criticizing staff, and I actually want to thank Caverin and other staff members who helped run the arena recently.

It gets back to the whole public versus private idea. Public arena events necessarily involve a ton of players. The bell mechanism ensures everyone can knows exactly when the event is happening.

For whatever reason one of the RPTs I thought about recently IRL? A scene from an Arena fight. Some of you all are great roleplayers and I adore good combat roleplay.

I also loved the way you could have a gladiator alt character because, of course, they are locked in the pens and thus safely separated from your full time PC, thus allowing you to have two PCs. More options for roleplay like that intrinsically rocks. If anything I think it would be wild and TONS of fun if EVERYONE could have a gladiator alt character and Arena events were automated and almost daily or weekly. I personally found gladiator alt characters extremely gratifying just because they would break up the ennui you might experience on your main character. I'd probably dump and rotate characters less frequently if I could reliably have a gladiator alt.

The lovely side effect of all of this; bringing more players to Allanak, if only by allowing someone with a rogue half-elven northern gick as their main PC to also play their gladiator alt character.

Wow, the first and only idea that irrefutably would bring more players to Allanak if only as a matter of a statistical fact.

Just a random idea. You might want some restrictions around it, like you can only log into your alt gladiator 2 hours a day + as long as events last. But it seems like a win-win-win idea. It also restores part of the documented setting that a lot of players enjoy playing out.

Oooh I like this! I never really got to experience/witness any gladiator arena events!
(I think maybe one time but that was about a year ago and a half ago and it was brief as I was still newish and really nervous about RP where there is a lot of people)
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triste

  • Posts: 1048
Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #68 on: August 20, 2020, 09:25:23 AM »
Oooh I like this! I never really got to experience/witness any gladiator arena events!
(I think maybe one time but that was about a year ago and a half ago and it was brief as I was still newish and really nervous about RP where there is a lot of people)

Let me assure you it's a heckin' blast. And things in the gladiator pens can get very... interesting.

Edit/extraneous brain farts on why this is good:
- All the activity in the stands is good for trade and commerce as commoners necessarily rub elbows with merchants, and Templars rub elbows with nobility.
- Not everyone has to or wants to make a gladiator, of course, but letting our new players experience the existing mechanisms for the Arena and Gladiator alts would be lovely.
- Gives something for all those new AoD to do. Arena events can notoriously get a little... out of hand, and Militia help is often needed in the stands. And of course, they often participate in events directly [as do other military clans if they wish].

Downsides:
- Possibly boring to seasoned vets, but if we automate it and make it less of a special-app based affair, that would make it spicier and nice to have as an option.
- Taxing for staff to manage manually, or implement at first, but if automated hopefully not bad long term.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 09:49:02 AM by triste »
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Brokkr

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Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #69 on: August 20, 2020, 10:53:06 AM »
Also, all the Templars outside of Tuluk are really old at this point, if you've been paying attention to the math.
Also, why can't anything be done to fix the issue of them all being old? I can't imagine they would do absolutely nothing and just die out of old age.

As far as being old, I mean, how would you fix it?

...did they not have little Templary babies?

Traditionally, no.

Fredd

  • Posts: 1827
Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #70 on: August 20, 2020, 11:00:52 AM »
Also, all the Templars outside of Tuluk are really old at this point, if you've been paying attention to the math.
Also, why can't anything be done to fix the issue of them all being old? I can't imagine they would do absolutely nothing and just die out of old age.

As far as being old, I mean, how would you fix it?

...did they not have little Templary babies?

Traditionally, no.

Lirathans were female psychics, and for the most part, not even noble.
Not a clue what was up with the kung-fu masters, and how they got chosen.

However they would have found a way to continue this. You aren't just going to give up your entire system of government. Not in an authoritarian monarchy like that. Maybe house Winrothol started breeding psychics, and now there's an army of Muls and Mindworms getting ready to march on Luirs?
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Dar

  • Posts: 1682
Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #71 on: August 20, 2020, 11:08:04 AM »
If I recall correctly, the reason why gladiatorial apps got shut down was due to lack of interest. People weren't apping. They scraped the barrel once, they scraped the barrel twice and then if there's no interest, then there is no interest.


Not too dissimilar to Tuluk truly. There was a small number of people who loved Tuluk thoroughly. But a vast majority disliked it immensely. And lack of players willing to be part of Tuluki society tended to prevent clans from functioning right. Although I do think that due to some innovations from staff, the last few months of Tuluk were incredibly awesome. Dont really know why it culminated into a shut down.

My point though is try to realize what exactly you're missing. You want Tuluk back, but what exactly about Tuluk that you want to return? You want gladiators to return, but what is it you're missing about them? Because if it returns and results in a sudden uptick of interest, which will fade and dissapear in six months. What then? I guess gladiators you can shut down again, but you cant 'reclose' Tuluk. And you cant completely leave it unstaffed, as people will start using it for hunting grounds and whatever else.

And if you open Tuluk with it being exactly the same as it was, it would be a loss of such a great opportunity to revamp it into something so different and awesome. You can only reopen that city once. Personally, I'd prefer to wait ... maybe years, but to make that absence 'worth' it. Then to have it reopen, observe the interest raise ... and wane, and be back to same ol' same ol'.

I'm sorry, but if you dont count the last few months of Tuluk (When the city had the most creative and energetic staffers working it up), Tuluk itself ... sucked butt. Many people who have lately been saying how much they miss Tuluk, or how awesome it was, were making posts at how shitty it was when it was open. How the society didnt work, how it's various cultural aspects killed roleplay, instead of encouraging it.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 11:11:10 AM by Dar »

Brokkr

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Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #72 on: August 20, 2020, 11:27:55 AM »
Also, all the Templars outside of Tuluk are really old at this point, if you've been paying attention to the math.
Also, why can't anything be done to fix the issue of them all being old? I can't imagine they would do absolutely nothing and just die out of old age.

As far as being old, I mean, how would you fix it?

...did they not have little Templary babies?

Traditionally, no.

Lirathans were female psychics, and for the most part, not even noble.
Not a clue what was up with the kung-fu masters, and how they got chosen.

However they would have found a way to continue this. You aren't just going to give up your entire system of government. Not in an authoritarian monarchy like that. Maybe house Winrothol started breeding psychics, and now there's an army of Muls and Mindworms getting ready to march on Luirs?

Are you taking into account what is inside of closed Tuluk, and what is outside?  Because as soon as you throw out Winrothol, it seems more like maybe not.

Shaydee

  • Posts: 316
Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #73 on: August 20, 2020, 11:34:19 AM »
Somewhere in the thread, the "big baddie" was brought up and I kind of wish it was either (or even both) the Sandlord (who could turn out to be a lady) or Luir's himself. I would want go back to when there was undead baddies from what I heard.

Coming back to say I also think this sounds super cool, but not sure how that would bring more to playing in Allanak.

I would want go back to when there was undead baddies from what I heard.

Also what? Undead baddies?
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triste

  • Posts: 1048
Re: The Allanak Problem
« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2020, 11:37:02 AM »
If I recall correctly, the reason why gladiatorial apps got shut down was due to lack of interest. People weren't apping. They scraped the barrel once, they scraped the barrel twice and then if there's no interest, then there is no interest.

What kind of metric is a "lack of interest." Someone just said they were interested in gladiators. All evidence indicates there is interest, so you can get out of here until you have metrics instead of generalities.

[edit] Sorry that came off too adversarial, but someone just posted the same argument as me here, but more longwinded -- why do people keep telling people what they want? Mindworms don't exist in real life, get over your power and omniscience complexes. Gladiators were closed right when I was itching to play one, and IIRC the message when it closed more had to do with Staff capacity, which I empathize with as someone who is also busy and doing stuff like posting during work.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 11:48:00 AM by triste »
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