Author Topic: Release Note discussion!  (Read 150157 times)

Erythil

  • Posts: 1265
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #600 on: May 31, 2018, 10:10:36 AM »
What if exotic weapons functioned as an 'ability' that some classes got, and worked off your base weapon skill for skill grinding purposes?  Tridents would work off of piercing, for instance.  Preserves them as a long-term goal and removes them as a secondary grind.

Riev

  • Posts: 5807
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #601 on: May 31, 2018, 10:24:36 AM »
What if exotic weapons functioned as an 'ability' that some classes got, and worked off your base weapon skill for skill grinding purposes?  Tridents would work off of piercing, for instance.  Preserves them as a long-term goal and removes them as a secondary grind.

I mean. They're going to be gone, and I don't see that changing. Not enough people were using them, and its too much of a pain to make them more inline with other skills.

I am still disappointed. It may be the morning's salt intake, but it sounds like it was "too much work" to bring this already-existing system in line with staff views, and it was "easier" to just give them to an incredibly small subset of players (gladiators) and focus instead on making sure each Base weapon skill has a "thing".

With a volunteer staff, it always comes down to the basic issue of "What is easier to do?" versus "How do I want to do it?"
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1956
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #602 on: May 31, 2018, 10:47:11 AM »
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« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 03:26:32 AM by Molten Heart »

Riev

  • Posts: 5807
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #603 on: May 31, 2018, 10:51:15 AM »
There are, Molten.

piercing weapons can backstab
bludgeoning can sap
chopping can hack
slashing can riposte


And that's it. Regardless of the Razor ability to destroy weapons/armor, or a knife-weapon's ability to bypass armor, these four main types have a "thing" associated with the now to make the choices more of a CHOICE than "I guess swords this time?"

"Exotic" weapons had things to them, moreso than just "other people don't have the skill." There was a SERIOUS ADVANTAGE if you could get skill up with them, but the way the game is coded, that wasn't easy without some twinking. So "nobody" was using them, and you'd never see how powerful they were.

Its easier to just remove them, than fix them. To fix them, a volunteer has to be interested and spend time on it, which right now none of the like 16 volunteers are interested in. So they're just being removed for now, and we get "Hack and Riposte" instead.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1956
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #604 on: May 31, 2018, 11:01:47 AM »
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« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 03:26:22 AM by Molten Heart »

Grapes

  • Posts: 451
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #605 on: May 31, 2018, 11:09:43 AM »
Wouldn't it be "easier" to filter the old advanced weapon types into their respective root-branch of weapons? Or possibly just the basic weapon type that makes sense? Possibly not, given I don't know if they'd still carry their (eta) -alleged- "perks" and somehow end up the most sought after weapons available.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 11:33:34 AM by Grapes »
Quote from: Is Friday
If you ever hassle me IC for not playing much that means that I'm going to play even less or I'll forever write you off as a neckbeard chained to his computer. So don't be a dick.

Riev

  • Posts: 5807
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #606 on: May 31, 2018, 11:34:46 AM »
Wouldn't it be "easier" to filter the old advanced weapon types into their respective root-branch of weapons? Or possibly just the basic weapon type that makes sense? Possibly not, given I don't know if they'd still carry their "perks" and somehow end up the most sought after weapons available.

For some of them, I wouldn't mind if the "Tridents" suddenly became a subset of piercing, like "stabbing" is. Or if a "pike" is a subset of Bludgeoning (whyyyyyyyyyyy) or whatever.

Of course I want to use razors for their coded ability, but damn would I like to be carrying around a glaive as a subset of slashing. Let me still have the ability/damage of a 2h slashing weapon, but let me determine what I want my slashing weapon to be.

Or give me back my Pike weapons for my mounted warriors.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Veselka

  • Posts: 1181
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #607 on: May 31, 2018, 11:46:02 AM »
I mean I’ve had a 50 day warrior who didn’t move past journeyman in weapons skills. Due to oblique code and a focus on RP I guess. Still kicked butt, but it sucks that you have to be X-D or never even dream of branching an advanced weapon. I’d rather that esoteric achievement be removed and a focus on things like combat stances and combat moves to really emphasize a difference between Scrub and Master. Combat between two master warriors is so unbelievably boring as it stands, so I’m glad Staff is adding some dynamics to different specialties to set them apart.

Rumors of what Advanced Weapons were capable of were sometimes patently obvious, and other times just as esoteric and unconfirmed. At least Staff is now putting it out there in a chart. Though playing a long lived PC now, excited to try out a new combat class for sure.
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

Delirium

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Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #608 on: May 31, 2018, 12:05:53 PM »
Or y'all could just, I don't know... play a gladiator? You can play them as secondary PCs. Instead of pretending you'll never ever get to play around with exotic weapons now. Sorry but this really seems like mountains out of molehills.
"There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." - Schmendrick

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 581
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #609 on: May 31, 2018, 12:11:45 PM »
I would just like to see the gladiators' exotic weapons actually be showmanlike. Stuff like whips, weird flails, multi-bladed weapons. Stuff that looks good but isn't really practical for someone outside the Arena. Not shit like "kniiiiiives."

Then we can move weapons that really are quite ordinary, such as polearms, into regular weapon categories, and continue to add interesting features associated with them like hack and riposte.

Riev

  • Posts: 5807
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #610 on: May 31, 2018, 12:16:58 PM »
Or y'all could just, I don't know... play a gladiator? You can play them as secondary PCs. Instead of pretending you'll never ever get to play around with exotic weapons now. Sorry but this really seems like mountains out of molehills.

The intended idea for my PC is to be someone who fights with knives. I do not get to play out that aspect as a Penned gladiator.
The intended goal for my new AoD PC is to become a Sergeant over a unit who fights exclusively with Pike Weapons.
I have an idea for a PC who utilizes razor weapons, while working for Salarr, to purposefully increasing their profits with destroyed armor.
I would like to play a Jihaen someday (hahahahh).

So. No, its not "play a penned". I don't miss the weapon skills because hurhurhruhru weapon skills, I miss them because they could be vital points to a goal or planned part of a character's progression. I cannot follow that progression as a penned gladiator.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Brokkr

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Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #611 on: May 31, 2018, 12:19:49 PM »
The only intended coded advantage I could find for the advanced weapon skills (which is none of the stuff you are talking about) was replicated to the normal weapon skills for the new classes.  Even the unintended advantage of razors was redesigned into the hack skill.

seidhr

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  • Posts: 581
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #612 on: May 31, 2018, 06:41:50 PM »
"Exotic" weapons had things to them, moreso than just "other people don't have the skill." There was a SERIOUS ADVANTAGE if you could get skill up with them

This is actually not true.  There was a side effect of razor weapons that was not intended, that they could destroy armor.  That was actually not a design decision and was because they weren't coded into some lookup table.  I think it may have even been fixed now.  None of the other weapon types did anything.  There is lots of conjecture out there that claims not-having-a-skill makes you worse at defending against that weapon type, but as Brokkr just said....  ^^

There is no advantage to any of them other than:  Hurrrrr durrrr I am very skilled warrior, I use "kniiiiiiife" weapons.

...so people OOCly may conclude that you are not to be trifled with - which is 100% silly.

MeTekillot

  • Posts: 10458
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #613 on: May 31, 2018, 06:51:12 PM »
Off topic but a good way to disguise the fact that you're a player AND a staff member when you post on your player forum account is to sometimes rabblerouse a little bit so you look like a loose cannon. This has been useful in my own experience in other games as a same-time player/staffer.
My thoughts.

A sex and torture survey upon character creation

Delirium

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Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #614 on: May 31, 2018, 06:55:18 PM »
After talking about it with Ender...

Roll up all "exotic weapons" into a single exotic weapon proficiency, and make them truly exotic. Weird dark sun-eqsue weapons that are impractical for day to day combat but just look really cool, which explains why gladiators use them.

Fix tridents, pikes, knives, etc to all fall under a sensible category, e.g. polearms/chopping, tridents/piercing, etc.

Because let's be honest, the current exotic weapons aren't really exotic, and truly exotic weapons are exotic because they're impractical to use in everyday combat.
"There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." - Schmendrick

Grapes

  • Posts: 451
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #615 on: May 31, 2018, 07:18:00 PM »
Dual nunchaku! Three-section-staff! Kusarigama (actually surprisingly effective but still weird enough)! Meteor hammer! Vanilla pudding! Oh, and those nets Mhyrmidons or whatever they're called use. Teacup!
Quote from: Is Friday
If you ever hassle me IC for not playing much that means that I'm going to play even less or I'll forever write you off as a neckbeard chained to his computer. So don't be a dick.

Vox

  • Posts: 477
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #616 on: June 01, 2018, 01:37:30 AM »
After talking about it with Ender...

Roll up all "exotic weapons" into a single exotic weapon proficiency, and make them truly exotic. Weird dark sun-eqsue weapons that are impractical for day to day combat but just look really cool, which explains why gladiators use them.

Fix tridents, pikes, knives, etc to all fall under a sensible category, e.g. polearms/chopping, tridents/piercing, etc.

Because let's be honest, the current exotic weapons aren't really exotic, and truly exotic weapons are exotic because they're impractical to use in everyday combat.

100% this.

stoicreader

  • Posts: 135
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #617 on: June 01, 2018, 07:03:04 PM »
I don't think people even remember that we actually have fire arrows now.

what? Please. Point. To. Help. File. Omg.
Meh

Nathvaan

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  • Posts: 425
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #618 on: June 01, 2018, 10:59:50 PM »
I don't think people even remember that we actually have fire arrows now.

what? Please. Point. To. Help. File. Omg.

https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,49825.msg958295.html#msg958295

"-Arrows can now be lit off of torches and campfires, increasing their damage nominally for a short period of time.  When the first goes out the arrow will be blackened, resulting in it doing slightly less damage, and preventing it from being lit again."

Cind

  • Posts: 1862
    • Tales of the Tan Muark, stealers of children.
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #619 on: June 02, 2018, 03:39:59 AM »
Maybe move all exotic weapons into an 'exotic' or 'gladatorial' category that is just like any normal weapons category, which gladiators start off as being slightly proficient in (apprentice) or moderately proficient in (journeyman) so long as they choose a 'gladiator' subguild.
https://armageddon.org/help/view/Inappropriate%20vernacular
gorgio: someone who is not romani, not a gypsy.
kumpania: a family of story tellers.
vardo: a horse-drawn wagon used by British Romani as their home. always well-crafted, often painted and gilded

Armaddict

  • Posts: 6299
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #620 on: June 10, 2018, 12:59:33 PM »
As a genuine question...

How much utility is there for listen_wilds?
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Delirium

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  • Posts: 12106
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #621 on: June 10, 2018, 01:17:12 PM »
Listen isn't just for overhearing conversations.
"There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." - Schmendrick

Krath

  • Posts: 2631
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #622 on: June 10, 2018, 01:22:33 PM »
While I agree with Delirium's response, what is the main point of separating them? What Problem is the staff trying to solve? Hide and Sneak makes complete sense, but this..I think is overkill.

Here is the Helpfile:

Listen                                                            (Detection)

   While appearing to do little at all, effective use of this skill in fact
begins a time period during which conversations in other rooms may be
heard. Conversations at tables can be overheard, and if the skill level is
great enough, doors can be listened through.

Syntax:
   listen [on|off|status]

Notes:
      Listen has some effect on the detection of stealthy activities that can
make noise.

   Listening takes concentration, and so while in use your maximum stun is
decreased based on how good you are at listening.


Delay:

After
Armageddon is best when it's actually harsh and brutal, not when we're only pretending that it is.

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1956
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #623 on: June 10, 2018, 01:29:10 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 03:25:59 AM by Molten Heart »

stoicreader

  • Posts: 135
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #624 on: June 10, 2018, 01:42:27 PM »
Sounds like now it will be almost impossible to branch certain ranger things from listen.
Meh