But the point is that it's generally more effective to just forgo the backstab entirely, prepare well, and then straight up 'kill' or 'bash' someone.
That is what you said that I responded to, Yam. That is, through context, saying something is not really viable. And I went into my whole speech about it. That is not a strawman argument; a strawman is setting up an argument that was never made and fighting that argument. I'm making a direct response to what you've said here.
Quote from: Armaddict on Today at 07:33:09 AM
In the case you haven't been watching people much: scan
In the case they are standing still waiting to quit: wish all I've hunted this person to this room and am now searching it methodically.
In the case they succeed in quitting: player complaint: I think this person logged out specifically to avoid having to sleep their health back after I tried to kill them, can you investigate?
These aren't reliable ways to make someone dead.
These are just as reliable as any other class in the game, particularly when it comes to you pointing out a mechanic that is blatantly discussed as ooc abuse. This is a reliable way of pointing out the case used as an example would be a case where you can set things up to react realistically, or insure that staff is aware of that situation. Bash, charge, and a buddy with subdue are the only things more reliable than this, as noted in a variety of other threads, they are also unreliable. So pointing this out as a failure of this particular skill is not really a good argument to make.
Quote
In the case they keep running: hunt;hunt;hunt;emote smirks at the very evident blood trail
They can run to a clan compound, or indoors public place, or just keep spamwalking indefinitely until they can log out, or...
Again, evading just long enough to log out and thus escape death is frowned upon, and always has been, and is actually one of the first staff-emails I have, is investigation of such an instance. People can indeed run into clan compounds. That happens with any guild using any of their opening moves. Kill delay is long enough for someone to instantly flee and spam walk to safety as well. So making this a problem with backstab is really your problem with delay in its entirety, not with a skill. Same with public indoors places, though the assassin has the advantage of being able to continue to stalk at this point in relative safety. Again, you seem to be equating this skill as the only one worth having the expectation of no escape; Every other class has to deal with people running away as well. It mostly comes to planning and circumstance and luck, just like...ta-da! Backstab.
Quote
In the case you have real poisons: All of the above becomes unnecessary because tablets either don't exist or are a death sentence themselves.
If you have serious poisons you're probably better off just using the kill command, which is one of the points at issue here.
Untrue, due to normal hits having a good chance of landing, particularly if they're unarmed, but backstab having an almost no-fail probability of delivering poison. If you land the backstab, the poison is pretty much landing, and when you're good at it, you're getting the two immediate attacks after anyway. This being one of the points at issue here is part of the entire reason why I'm arguing with you; I agreed, long ago, that many skills, including backstab, could do with fleshing out and making more neato. But the constant drone of 'This skill is useless' is entirely untrue, which is really what you're repeatedly bringing up despite your falling back to that same point we agreed on (we can change backstab), then reasserting the same thing (...because backstab doesn't work well.)
Quote
In the case you are patient: think I'll try again at this other place where I've been watching them hang out.
In the case you play an assassin: think Ha, I knew I'd find them here. They've fallen into my trap.
Irrelevant
Not irrelevant, because it's pointing out that the scenarios you've given are pointedly ignoring the trademark of the assassin, which is planning and execution. These are not random brawls you're getting into where you just -decide- to backstab someone for whatever reason. In any case where you've done any sort of planning and looked ahead, you'll find things going your way a lot more of the time...again, much like every other class in the game. Comparing assassin skills without implementing the gameplay that puts them to best use is directly trying to sway the data into the favor of 'warriors are better'.
If you want to play the warrior slipknife because you are more free to brawl, then play the warrior slipknife. But don't assert that just because you don't like stalking, hunting, and playing the role, that the role, or its skills, is not functioning well. I've been having plenty of success with it for a good long time, and you just aren't going to make much headway telling me that a multitude of years using these methods are untrue because you disagree. I've seen the results, and I'm plenty pleased with them.
Again, I think more of the problem lies in the state of poisons in the game than this particular skill. There is no reason to bar development on it, but there's no reason to try and convince everyone they shouldn't be using this, either.
Edit: Meh, I suck at GDB functions. Sue me.