New sponsored role: Outside the walls looking in

Started by Dresan, June 27, 2016, 07:40:40 PM

First all, I'm really happy to see this new clan role being offered, mostly because I'm hoping it'll shine light on some areas of the game that I think are lacking, while at the same time providing some interesting role playing opportunity to players in and around Redstorm.

Some thoughts on the role though:

  • The area between allanak and luirs is well done, and the area between luirs and tuluk/morins is interesting as well. However, I've described the area just north of redstorm  clunky at best before and I don't think that has changed. Its not really just the distance or even the weather, though that doesn't help matters.
  • Despite the threads on spice in the past, it hasn't really received any quality of life changes that would make it worth while to use OOCly or ICly. This is just my opinion but not sure making it cheaper addressed any of those issues, especially I don't think anyone would have minded it being more expensive so long as it was more convenient and less crappy to use. Definitely feels a virtual vice at the moment.
 
These things don't really detract from the RP opportunities this sponsored role can offer, but again, I'm really hoping this clan will bring some attention to the areas I mentioned. :)

Quote from: Dresan on June 27, 2016, 07:40:40 PM
First all, I'm really happy to see this new clan role being offered, mostly because I'm hoping it'll shine light on some areas of the game that I think are lacking, while at the same time providing some interesting role playing opportunity to players in and around Redstorm.

Some thoughts on the role though:

  • The area between allanak and luirs is well done, and the area between luirs and tuluk/morins is interesting as well. However, I've described the area just north of redstorm  clunky at best before and I don't think that has changed. Its not really just the distance or even the weather, though that doesn't help matters.
  • Despite the threads on spice in the past, it hasn't really received any quality of life changes that would make it worth while to use OOCly or ICly. This is just my opinion but not sure making it cheaper addressed any of those issues, especially I don't think anyone would have minded it being more expensive so long as it was more convenient and less crappy to use. Definitely feels a virtual vice at the moment.
 
These things don't really detract from the RP opportunities this sponsored role can offer, but again, I'm really hoping this clan will bring some attention to the areas I mentioned. :)

Not sure what you mean by more convenient and less crappy to use. If you're in Allanak, it's not supposed to be convenient, because it's illegal. So having smugglers bring it in would make it more convenient. It'd probably be a whole lot more expensive than venturing to Luir's or Red Storm and buying it directly (or sifting for raw grains) yourself, but convenience comes with a price. As for crappy, no idea what you mean by that. Some have pretty significant coded benefits, some just have coded effects, without significant benefits. Each of them comes with a risk with regards to addiction/withdrawal. Again - there's a price for convenience - even coded benefits.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

I think what Dresan's getting at are that the benefits of spice use still do not outweigh the risks (addiction code, being caught, cost [though this is mitigated these days]). Unless you have terrible stats anyway, spice really isn't something that becomes a key part of keeping your character functional. It's a sometime luxury, not an all-the-time I-need-this-and-will-risk-death-to-procure thing.

Anyway. Dust Runners. Cool clan.


Quote from: BadSkeelz on June 27, 2016, 08:05:05 PM
I think what Dresan's getting at are that the benefits of spice use still do not outweigh the risks (addiction code, being caught, cost [though this is mitigated these days]). Unless you have terrible stats anyway, spice really isn't something that becomes a key part of keeping your character functional. It's a sometime luxury, not an all-the-time I-need-this-and-will-risk-death-to-procure thing.

Anyway. Dust Runners. Cool clan.

It shouldn't be a "key part" at keeping your character functional, unless you're already addicted to it. But it's certainly more useful than a mere fluff RP prop. Some of it isn't. Most of my characters never touched it, or smoked/snorted it very rarely - there used to be myths about what the different types could do/couldn't do, don't know if those are still mentioned IG anymore. Seems like these days, if it doesn't have a coded advantage, there's no point having it. Unless it's jewelry, which doesn't take up a precious armor-worn slot.

Once upon a time, characters used to actually WANT to smoke spice, and there was a market for it in Allanak, and people in Tuluk smoked it often, as did people in Red Storm and Luir's, and in the Blackwing outpost. People used to sit around emoting the experience, smoke rings, funny shaped clouds, reactions to when it wore off, the whole shebang.

It'd be nice to see a return to more of that.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

I don't wear jewelry because it weighs down the PC (maybe). It is useful for throwing up chaff when a character looks at you, forcing them to spend precious seconds scrolling up to read your mdesc while you flee.

Quote from: Lizzie on June 27, 2016, 08:14:33 PM
It'd be nice to see a return to more of that.

Be the change?

"Keep a character functional" was probably a poor choice of words. But I've never had a character that I felt needed to use spice, even if it was just to maintain an advantage.

Well look at it from a roleplaying point of view.

Its ILLEGAL in ALLANAK. The highlord doesn't want you doing it. You may have a good job, kids, and family. Its not like our characters don't do spice once in a while. However, being an addict is a huge fault, which can be fun to play from time to time, but so is being drunk, being a active thief in a clan,etc etc etc. The PC demand isn't there like it is for armor, water, food, weapons or heck even furniture for our apartments.  


Not everyone is going to roll an addict. Sniffing it now and then for special events doesn't create much demand thus making it a virtual vice at best. 

The clan sounds amazingly fun!  It is true that for smugglers to have a job there needs to be a market for what they smuggle.  I suppose that will be part of what the clan has to create!  

Wonderful way to make the southlands more alive!
At your table, the XXXXXXXX templar says in sirihish, echoing:
     "Everyone is SAFE in His Walls."

Quote from: Norcal on June 27, 2016, 08:24:22 PM
The clan sounds amazingly fun!  It is true that for smugglers to have a job there needs to be a market for what they smuggle.  I suppose that will be part of what the clan has to create!  

Wonderful way to make the southlands more alive!

It's definitely a fun clan. It's also not really all that new. Just not very well known :)
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Deserves more press.

Quote from: Dresan on June 27, 2016, 08:23:54 PM
The PC demand isn't there like it is for armor, water, food, weapons or heck even furniture for our apartments. 


Not everyone is going to roll an addict. Sniffing it now and then for special events doesn't create much demand thus making it a virtual vice at best. 

Quote from: Norcal on June 27, 2016, 08:24:22 PM
The clan sounds amazingly fun!  It is true that for smugglers to have a job there needs to be a market for what they smuggle.  I suppose that will be part of what the clan has to create! 

Wonderful way to make the southlands more alive!

Solution:

Ban sandcloth in Allanak. Dust Runners gotta pivot!

Quote from: Lizzie on June 27, 2016, 08:26:40 PM
Quote from: Norcal on June 27, 2016, 08:24:22 PM
The clan sounds amazingly fun!  It is true that for smugglers to have a job there needs to be a market for what they smuggle.  I suppose that will be part of what the clan has to create!  

Wonderful way to make the southlands more alive!

It's definitely a fun clan. It's also not really all that new. Just not very well known :)


I highly recommend the Dust Runner clan.  The documentation is fantastic, the clan staff right now is amazingly responsive, and there's a load of stuff -- just awesome stuff -- associated with it.

RSV is easy enough to survive in.  Just don't do that one stupid thing we all do when bored.

Spice is fantastic.  We should all do spice.  ALL OF US.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

First player to overdose their current PC on spice gets +1 karma!

Quote from: BadSkeelz on June 27, 2016, 08:33:11 PM
First player to overdose their current PC on spice gets +1 karma!
ODing on spice is easy. Maintaining an addiction is the challenge.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Quote from: Lizzie on June 27, 2016, 08:34:22 PM
Quote from: BadSkeelz on June 27, 2016, 08:33:11 PM
First player to overdose their current PC on spice gets +1 karma!
ODing on spice is easy. Maintaining an addiction is the challenge.


Not true in my experience.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

June 27, 2016, 09:49:48 PM #15 Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 09:51:47 PM by Reiloth
The addiction code currently makes your PC nigh unplayable. I had a PC who had to join Kurac and basically smoke every 10-20 RL minutes. While it was a cool plot twist, it completely changed his story, and made his focus spice or die. He eventually ODd on a brick he was supposed to sell.

I think it could be mitigated by having spice wear off while offline. Addiction code seems to kick in rather suddenly due to how it functions. It'd be nice if you could be an addict without it completely debilitating your PC.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done -- So therefore you may never know a life of peace."

~Jack Vance~

Quote from: Reiloth on June 27, 2016, 09:49:48 PM
The addiction code currently makes your PC nigh unplayable. I had a PC who had to join Kurac and basically smoke every 10-20 RL minutes. While it was a cool plot twist, it completely changed his story, and made his focus spice or die. He eventually ODd on a brick he was supposed to sell.

I think it could be mitigated by having spice wear off while offline. Addiction code seems to kick in rather suddenly due to how it functions. It'd be nice if you could be an addict without it completely debilitating your PC.

I can't help wonder if they all get as bad as the 1. I know that the one that's most like heroin... actually makes REAL HEROIN DETOX look like a vacation and gd disney land.

It was so bad I couldn't stand to play the character after they became addicted. What seemed like it 'might' have been a sort of addiction affect on a different type of spice was, I think, conversely too mild, though how long EITHER of them last was just way too much and I agree about having the addiction timer taking time into account without it just being time played but virtual time as well.
Quote from: Maester Aemon Targaryen
What is honor compared to a woman's love? ...Wind and words. Wind and words. We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy.

I can't help but feel about this sponsored role the way I felt about the previous Guild one.

So if there are people in this organization right now who are plotting to be the boss, you're just going to bypass all of them and bring in someone new, buff their skills, and give them that authority?

Gut punch to the ambition.

Quote from: Miradus on June 28, 2016, 09:23:20 AM
I can't help but feel about this sponsored role the way I felt about the previous Guild one.

So if there are people in this organization right now who are plotting to be the boss, you're just going to bypass all of them and bring in someone new, buff their skills, and give them that authority?

Gut punch to the ambition.
Just assassinate them and take over ?

Doesn't seem like that's a possibility or one of them would be the leader already and there would be no call for a sponsored role.


Quote from: Miradus on June 28, 2016, 09:23:20 AM
I can't help but feel about this sponsored role the way I felt about the previous Guild one.

So if there are people in this organization right now who are plotting to be the boss, you're just going to bypass all of them and bring in someone new, buff their skills, and give them that authority?

Gut punch to the ambition.

I don't want to speak out of turn, but staff is pretty good about not doing that.  I would suspect that the clan is void of PCs ATM, hence the role call.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

I'd hope that's the case. It's just never mentioned in these role calls.

"Hey, this clan is dead, so in an attempt to revive it, we're having a sponsored role call."


Quote from: Miradus on June 28, 2016, 09:32:35 AM
I'd hope that's the case. It's just never mentioned in these role calls.

"Hey, this clan is dead, so in an attempt to revive it, we're having a sponsored role call."



Because that sounds really really good.

Trust Staff. Don't assume. You'll be alright. They don't put out sponsored role calls unless there's a need to.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done -- So therefore you may never know a life of peace."

~Jack Vance~

Yeah in my experience its generally lack of Pc's, or, just a lack of Pc's who -want- to be in the role of leadership. Not everyone has the desire to be the 'boss'
there's been a couple times I was in a clan that had a good number of PC's when it's leader died, but no one really wanted to take over.
The Ooze is strong with this one

Quote from: 8bitgrandpa on June 28, 2016, 12:01:20 AM
You are our official hammer, Ooze.

Malachi 2:3

Quote[spice] hasn't really received any quality of life changes that would make it worth while to use OOCly or ICly

The effects of spice are completely separate from the role of being a smuggler. If we only had GMH clan roles open because their goods and services provided a coded net benefit to characters, the Guild and House Kadius would be closed. Seems pretty silly to do that.

QuoteThe addiction code currently makes your PC nigh unplayable

Addiction is never permanently crippling (see 'help spice', it's been updated somewhat recently).

Quoteif there are people in this organization right now who are plotting to be the boss, you're just going to bypass all of them and bring in someone new

Yeah, that would be pretty stupid. Good thing we're not doing that.
  

Yeah, if there is a character in game that could fit as the leader when there is none, I would rather have that as the leader and will typically promote such.  I typically do this all IC though, looking at what the NPCs would want and need.  If someone doesn't fit the NPC criteria, they likely won't get promoted.  Please don't go straight for the negative outlook.
Ourla:  You're like the oil paint on the canvas of evil.

Man, I really need to make some time for Arm again, that clan looks awesome :)
"When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse's feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back."

Damn sponsored roles!



I can attest that Ath is a rad dude and that Red Storm is also rad. Possibly irradiated. Also you can live in a windmill.

Quote from: Ath on June 28, 2016, 10:56:09 AM
Yeah, if there is a character in game that could fit as the leader when there is none, I would rather have that as the leader and will typically promote such.  I typically do this all IC though, looking at what the NPCs would want and need.  If someone doesn't fit the NPC criteria, they likely won't get promoted.  Please don't go straight for the negative outlook.

I live in the negative.

But good to hear that it was looked at internally first.

Quote from: Yam on June 28, 2016, 11:18:18 AM
Also you can live in a windmill.

Yeah but can you fight it??
"When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse's feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back."

June 28, 2016, 12:40:48 PM #30 Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 12:44:33 PM by Norcal
Sadly....no.



Quote from: Miradus on June 28, 2016, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: Ath on June 28, 2016, 10:56:09 AM
Yeah, if there is a character in game that could fit as the leader when there is none, I would rather have that as the leader and will typically promote such.  I typically do this all IC though, looking at what the NPCs would want and need.  If someone doesn't fit the NPC criteria, they likely won't get promoted.  Please don't go straight for the negative outlook.

I live in the negative.

But good to hear that it was looked at internally first.

I have within the last month seen Ath do exactly what he just said he would do. So no worries.  Also, this is an awesome thing, so why so much negativity?  Try it and you will have FUN!
At your table, the XXXXXXXX templar says in sirihish, echoing:
     "Everyone is SAFE in His Walls."

Guys, it's a silo.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Quote from: nauta on June 28, 2016, 12:43:23 PM
Guys, it's a silo.


YOU SHUT YOUR LIE HOLE!  IT IS A GORRAM WINDMILL!
Yes. Read the thread if you want, or skip to page 7 and be dismissive.
-Reiloth

Words I repeat every time I start a post:
Quote from: Rathustra on June 23, 2016, 03:29:08 PM
Stop being shitty to each other.

Can I point out that the role call explicitly indicated that the person would have to be cool with building the clan back up?  If that isn't a stronger indicator that there are few to no characters willing or able to fill the spot, I'm not sure what is.
Former player as of 2/27/23, sending love.

This looks like another cool opportunity.  Why have so many been popping up while I'm on a character I enjoy ?

First that Elf family, Then The Bondmate, now this.   :'(  Cruel..cruel GDB.
The Ooze is strong with this one

Quote from: 8bitgrandpa on June 28, 2016, 12:01:20 AM
You are our official hammer, Ooze.

Malachi 2:3

Quote from: valeria on June 28, 2016, 01:52:09 PM
Can I point out that the role call explicitly indicated that the person would have to be cool with building the clan back up?  If that isn't a stronger indicator that there are few to no characters willing or able to fill the spot, I'm not sure what is.

Y'all sure know how to dogpile on someone.

Way to go, HELPER.


Quote from: Rathustra on June 28, 2016, 02:46:46 PM
Yo I heard there was a dogpile?

You're too late for your big fat producer knees in my back.

Get to the dogpile early or you don't get in at all.


Quote from: valeria on June 28, 2016, 01:52:09 PM
Can I point out that the role call explicitly indicated that the person would have to be cool with building the clan back up?  If that isn't a stronger indicator that there are few to no characters willing or able to fill the spot, I'm not sure what is.

SHHHHHH!!!  It's not supposed to be that obvious!   :-X  (Though seriously, the Dust Runners are going to need some help, but I already have some help for the person that gets the role lined up.  I will not plop someone down and go... "Good luck!" then leave them.)

And thank you for the kind words.  I try to be helpful, I may not be super active, but I try to make the fun happen.
Ourla:  You're like the oil paint on the canvas of evil.

Someone needs to change my forum title to ANGRY FORUM WOMAN asap, so that I'm reminded never to post anything tongue-in-cheek without smileys.

;) ;) ;D ;) :-*
Former player as of 2/27/23, sending love.

I do hope, and this is assumed, that the person in charge of the roll can equally fuck up the clan as well as fix it. If they act a fool and get mega stomped by Nak/Raiders/whatever I really hope I don't see another sponsored roll/they just get fixed ooc by staff.
Though I'm not saying they should be completely wiped out because of that.
But I am saying It would be nice.



I'm not using my Ranger/slipknife this time I swear for the last time I'm NOT hunting sponsored rolls guys pls

Quote from: Nergal on June 28, 2016, 10:13:29 AM
Quote[spice] hasn't really received any quality of life changes that would make it worth while to use OOCly or ICly
The effects of spice are completely separate from the role of being a smuggler.

Quote from: Dresan on June 27, 2016, 07:40:40 PM
These things don't really detract from the RP opportunities this sponsored role can offer, but again, I'm really hoping this clan will bring some attention to the areas I mentioned. :)

Yup, we seem to agree on that.  :)

Quote from: Jihelu on June 28, 2016, 07:35:41 PM
I do hope, and this is assumed, that the person in charge of the roll can equally fuck up the clan as well as fix it. If they act a fool and get mega stomped by Nak/Raiders/whatever I really hope I don't see another sponsored roll/they just get fixed ooc by staff.
Though I'm not saying they should be completely wiped out because of that.
But I am saying It would be nice.



I'm not using my Ranger/slipknife this time I swear for the last time I'm NOT hunting sponsored rolls guys pls

Why does that make any sense? One 'Sponsored Role' is a cog in the virtual machine of the clan. Should Salarr close if there are no current PCs in the clan?

Clans come and go. I think Staff keeps an eye on what's working and what isn't. But just because some PC dies (probably in a stupid way) doesn't mean they should arbitrarily close a clan. I'm sure there is more that goes into it than that.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done -- So therefore you may never know a life of peace."

~Jack Vance~

Quote from: Reiloth on June 28, 2016, 08:09:10 PM
Quote from: Jihelu on June 28, 2016, 07:35:41 PM
I do hope, and this is assumed, that the person in charge of the roll can equally fuck up the clan as well as fix it. If they act a fool and get mega stomped by Nak/Raiders/whatever I really hope I don't see another sponsored roll/they just get fixed ooc by staff.
Though I'm not saying they should be completely wiped out because of that.
But I am saying It would be nice.



I'm not using my Ranger/slipknife this time I swear for the last time I'm NOT hunting sponsored rolls guys pls

Why does that make any sense? One 'Sponsored Role' is a cog in the virtual machine of the clan. Should Salarr close if there are no current PCs in the clan?

Clans come and go. I think Staff keeps an eye on what's working and what isn't. But just because some PC dies (probably in a stupid way) doesn't mean they should arbitrarily close a clan. I'm sure there is more that goes into it than that.

less static werld dudez

Honestly, shitty leaders make for shitty clan play and a shitty game 99% of the time.

I've only ever been in one clan but they had good leadership and it was all-around fun to be a part of.

Except for the whole "nobody else plays at the same time you do" thing.

Seems like a clan like this one would be more open to a bunch of lone wolves wandering around, loosely organized around themes and roles.

Quote from: Miradus on June 28, 2016, 08:17:13 PM
I've only ever been in one clan but they had good leadership and it was all-around fun to be a part of.

Except for the whole "nobody else plays at the same time you do" thing.

Seems like a clan like this one would be more open to a bunch of lone wolves wandering around, loosely organized around themes and roles.

I would recommend: play the game for longer and join more, different clans. It isn't the 'clan' that makes it fun, it's the people in it.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done -- So therefore you may never know a life of peace."

~Jack Vance~

Quote from: Miradus on June 28, 2016, 08:17:13 PM
Seems like a clan like this one would be more open to a bunch of lone wolves wandering around, loosely organized around themes and roles.

Oh heck no... lone wolves die too damn easy.  I highly do not suggest that sort of mentality.
Ourla:  You're like the oil paint on the canvas of evil.

So it would be like other clans where you're not allowed to leave the safety of the walls except in a group?


Quote from: Miradus on June 29, 2016, 10:34:47 AM
So it would be like other clans where you're not allowed to leave the safety of the walls except in a group?



Never said that at all.  That's up to the person leading the crew to decided.  The Dust Runners do require a lot of independence in a way, they have to be able to do things on their own, but at the same point, being a lone wolf all the time can easily get you killed.
Ourla:  You're like the oil paint on the canvas of evil.

I've been in a clan or two that had a rule that was something akin to "Don't be absolutely useless/stupid and you can go outside if you want"


That being said I'm sometimes both of those but people sometimes trust your character for some reason.



Ironically my characters that don't play in clans are slightly less useless.

Quote from: BadSkeelz on June 28, 2016, 08:12:52 PM
Quote from: Reiloth on June 28, 2016, 08:09:10 PM
Quote from: Jihelu on June 28, 2016, 07:35:41 PM
I do hope, and this is assumed, that the person in charge of the roll can equally fuck up the clan as well as fix it. If they act a fool and get mega stomped by Nak/Raiders/whatever I really hope I don't see another sponsored roll/they just get fixed ooc by staff.
Though I'm not saying they should be completely wiped out because of that.
But I am saying It would be nice.



I'm not using my Ranger/slipknife this time I swear for the last time I'm NOT hunting sponsored rolls guys pls

Why does that make any sense? One 'Sponsored Role' is a cog in the virtual machine of the clan. Should Salarr close if there are no current PCs in the clan?

Clans come and go. I think Staff keeps an eye on what's working and what isn't. But just because some PC dies (probably in a stupid way) doesn't mean they should arbitrarily close a clan. I'm sure there is more that goes into it than that.

less static werld dudez

Honestly, shitty leaders make for shitty clan play and a shitty game 99% of the time.

I think what you are looking for is Player Clans then, which are intended to live and die with their leader, mostly.


so want toooo, but like the char I have... oh wait like all my chars, except those one that just peetered out, for some  reason... Stupid char's going all dormant on me, whyyyy.
Sweet chaos let it unfold upon the land.
Guided forever by my adoring loving hand.
It is I the nightmare that sleeps but shall wake.

Some characters I get sick of their limited skillsets. Sometimes I get sick of their roleplay.

Sometimes I'm loving them and then INSTADEATH has arrived from the west.

Quote from: Miradus on June 29, 2016, 05:25:12 PM
Some characters I get sick of their limited skillsets. Sometimes I get sick of their roleplay.

Sometimes I'm loving them and then INSTADEATH has arrived from the west.


yep, know that feeling.
Sweet chaos let it unfold upon the land.
Guided forever by my adoring loving hand.
It is I the nightmare that sleeps but shall wake.