Too Static World Setting

[Armaddict]

Just as a note:

i've always thought it's been to static, back the first time I played waaay back when I was a teen it felt more alive.
Not through staff but the players themselves, the way they added to it. You didn't have a lot of people hiding out in compounds, making things all day, you had people grabbing everyone to go out and explore. You had them getting into trouble, you had mean people that where showing you how much they disliked your sharp ears, or your partially sharp ears. You had raiders more then willing tor raid people, and then vanish for a little while as raiders do. Then you had staff coming along to really mess you up, and make you run for your lives.

Nowadays it just seems like for the most part you here about house x from the ig boards, because they seem to all be hiding away, training, training, training, and when a raider does sprout up, (pc raider, not the other kinds) Usually they end up being hunted and killed swiftly, which leads to noone wanting to play raiders, or lapses of time where an indie raider is training up skills to be able to raid people. So far my fav pc wasn't even one my toon liked, but a sharp ear raider, that was always causing trouble in one way or another.

and yes there are things going on, alooot of things ig that most people don't even see, know about, because they are hiding themselves away. or maybe it just seems that way to me. *goes back to hiding*

I played a burglar because people were complaining that burglars weren't viable.  I played a raider because people were complaining that raiders weren't viable.  I'm currently playing something that I'd wanted to play for awhile...but afterwards, I'll go back to giving you guys someone to hate IC, don't worry!

[Jihelu]

My experience with the Labrinth:
I met like 2 people out of a week of play maybe? Fell like 15 times, passed out like 10, no one actually found me to loot/kill me in those times, weird huh?
It was really boring. It was like a dungeon crawl without the dungeon and twice the crawl with half the experience.


I do think the world is a bit static and it might be why I stopped playing. I've been getting real urges to play D&D/games I can actually change/make a difference/do things in as opposed to this. This isn't a gut punch at the game and I don't want/still expect someone to reply with "WELL IF YOU DO X X AND X AND SPEND HALF YOUR LIFE DOING X YOU CAN CHANGE THE GAME" I'm just pointing out there is a huge difference between what you can accomplish in a session or life time in Arm than even a session, and of course, life time in D&D.



But how do you fix it? How does Grumpy Jihelu suggest fixing the problem?
I dunno.

I feel like people are for change but in game people are adamant about sticking to the status quo because change is bad in societies like this, and the people who aren't are just crazy or dwarves or breeds freaking out or dirty gickers.


"Because Tuluk is closed, the staff started to focus on the Tablelands, and again no news of what is happening is reaching other places of the Known.  I don't if the idea of news could help to create plots and even change the world in a larger scale."
I've never heard of anything about the Tablelands. I think I bothered to look at Luir's rumor board once and either there was something there that didn't catch my eye or maybe seeing something about the Mantis/Gith every ten minutes is just boring to me. :News flash: "Mantis raid on X few/many/none dead shocking news" isn't that shocking. It's just a spider event at that point with less legs.

[Chettaman]

Largely, I think, because your main method of antagonizing people in plots is going to be to go sit in the Gaj and be an ass. At least that's the most "plot" I've seen thus far.

You can't go set up a villainous lair and have your minions go do things for you. You can't set up a secret base because it's too far from the blasted tavern which is the only place you'll find people willing to roleplay.

One time... I turned a very ordinary sales person into a "wild" person, because they might of died because something they had no part in.
This same character was stalked by a secret plot-starter and was "forced" or was lead to join this secret plot-starter's group of plot-pawns. I imagine they did a great deal of things, but from what I managed to see what they were doing, my entire idea of armageddon was uh... expanded on.

Like I said once before, I usually play really ordinary mundane characters and even with this secret group, I was still doing really mundane things. It was comical, because everyone in the group was an ordinary person doing extraordinary things. And it was endearing to see them squatting to poop like me.

[nauta]

"Because Tuluk is closed, the staff started to focus on the Tablelands, and again no news of what is happening is reaching other places of the Known.  I don't if the idea of news could help to create plots and even change the world in a larger scale."
I've never heard of anything about the Tablelands. I think I bothered to look at Luir's rumor board once and either there was something there that didn't catch my eye or maybe seeing something about the Mantis/Gith every ten minutes is just boring to me. :News flash: "Mantis raid on X few/many/none dead shocking news" isn't that shocking. It's just a spider event at that point with less legs.

There was a lot going on with the tablelands plots, and the geography of the tablelands certainly DID change as a result -- but a lot of it didn't trickle outside of the tablelands and the clans involved there.  I think this could be said for a lot of the big plots that go on: they start inside a clan or set of clans and, fingers crossed, move out from there.

(ETA: I do think a universal plot is still missing.  I could be wrong, but in the last two months playing inside Allanak, other than some old rumor board posts, I haven't seen much evidence of a universal plot accessible to a common citizen, e.g., the classic Nak vs. Tuluk plot that ruled the roost when I first started playing.  Perhaps it's there in the AoD clan and they are playing their cards close to their chest.)

[Armaddict]

My big beef about the tablelands was not about not hearing about in Allanak or anything like that.  That's well and good.

Mine was that we basically closed Tuluk, closed a bunch of clans to military personel, and removed a bunch of content in the name of consolidation...then shifted a bunch of resources and a longstanding RPT-like scenario towards what is notoriously isolated and unfriendly to outsiders. 

I mean...we were hitting 100 players a lot of the time in Allanak, we had a running HRPT-like environment, we had chaos and intrigue and people packed together around conflict and more conflict...and then we split it off, ended the pro-Allanak arena of activity, and spread people back out into an even less interactive relationship than the north and south was.  Then we brought back the gith (which was cool), but focused them around that isolated environment.

It was not a very streamlined, focused approach to the stated goals, basically, and felt a lot more like what we're told it is: 'We don't ask people to do anything they don't want to.'  This is well and good, I'm not for time-rape, but sometimes, just having projects go according to enthusiasm makes for a very undirected feel to things, which ultimately, I think, takes away rather than promotes a non-static feel. (It should be noted that I am in favor of static aside from special circumstances.  A bunch of players being able to do anything they want to is a recipe for a golden age of advancement in the game and momentous game-world shifts, thus removing the gameworld that everyone knows and enjoys as is).

[Jihelu]

My big beef about the tablelands was not about not hearing about in Allanak or anything like that.  That's well and good.

Mine was that we basically closed Tuluk, closed a bunch of clans to military personel, and removed a bunch of content in the name of consolidation...then shifted a bunch of resources and a longstanding RPT-like scenario towards what is notoriously isolated and unfriendly to outsiders. 

I too share the same beef.

[BadSkeelz]

To give staff full credit, there were attempts to involve non-traditional actors in the Tablelands. Rather unsuccessfully, but not because of Staff. A perception of the Tablelands being isolated is a result of player actions more than anything else.

Edit: Players being risk-averse and/or incapable of swaying others to their risky viewpoint is a significant contributing factor to a static gameworld too, I suppose. Not dominant, but significant.

[Taven]

Guys, I don't know why you think that a large Tablelands plot suddenly means that there's no plots anywhere else. Every area has their own staff team. The Indie staff throwing a big RPT doesn't suddenly mean that other areas have less attention, because everywhere else still has the exact same amount of staff support.

If you're not in the Tablelands or actively seeking out information, then no, you might not hear about the plot there. I can tell you that Allanak did have minimal involvement in it, and kept an eye to see if it developed further. I can tell you that Luirs and multiple tribes were involved.

The plot itself had an interesting start. It had challenges, however. I believe that several staff were drawn away from RL. Likewise, the tribes had activity challenges. This meant that getting things moving was difficult. However, it did still have an impact, even if it wasn't what it might have been.

[Armaddict]

That wasn't what was said, Taven, but I'm sure you realize that.

It was a move involving unpopular decisions in the name of consolidation (well, some unpopular ones.  Pro-allanakis were pretty happy ).  Which worked.  We were consolidated, we had big events going down.  But then we split it back up, to a less popular area than before for an undetermined reason.  It ended up working out poorly.

Likewise, it's not 'They're getting attention and we're not', it's 'Why'd we consolidate only to separate again and split up resources again?  Why'd we do it to a less popular area?'  It's less 'OHHH, TABLELANDS SUCKS AND FAILED!' and more about 'What exactly are we trying to accomplish, because we seem to be fighting our own stated path of progression'.

Edit:  Er, which is not to be argumentative and derail.  I just think you misread what the point was and had a good response to...what wasn't being said.  I was just saying that when we make our projects and progress in this way, it can indeed feel like things aren't really moving forward in any way.

[Majikal]

Likewise, it's not 'They're getting attention and we're not', it's 'Why'd we consolidate only to separate again and split up resources again?  Why'd we do it to a less popular area?'  It's less 'OHHH, TABLELANDS SUCKS AND FAILED!' and more about 'What exactly are we trying to accomplish, because we seem to be fighting our own stated path of progression'.

Fun fact, since pretty much forever 'resources have been split up' in Armageddon. It helps keep things balanced, consistent, and let's the storytellers focus on their teams as opposed to everyone dancing on eggshells around everyone's shit while they try to make everyone happy. Teams being divided was something mostly born from players who got upset when things felt... unbalanced or inconsistent.

[Miradus]

Because I'm curious, are new areas still being added to the game world?

On a regular basis, that is.

[Armaddict]

Well I know -that-, of course.  Though more fun fact, there used to be teams for each clan, with each team member involved in multiple clans not associated with each other (i.e. Team member in Tor, Winrothol, and the Guild), with storytellers setting up to one or two 'prime staff members' on each team who had to approve anything momentous.  The rest of the team was for communication, plots, and animations/making things react.

I brought that in the same way you did.  Neither one really contributes to me saying that we sometimes appear to fight our own stated goals.

[Taven]

That wasn't what was said, Taven, but I'm sure you realize that.

It wasn't in direct response to your post at all.

Instead, it was a response various posts/sentiments in the overall thread. There's been a reoccurring theme, across multiple posts, that if staff is focusing on the tablelands, they're not focusing elsewhere.

It was a move involving unpopular decisions in the name of consolidation (well, some unpopular ones.  Pro-allanakis were pretty happy ).  Which worked.  We were consolidated, we had big events going down.  But then we split it back up, to a less popular area than before for an undetermined reason.  It ended up working out poorly.

Likewise, it's not 'They're getting attention and we're not', it's 'Why'd we consolidate only to separate again and split up resources again?  Why'd we do it to a less popular area?'  It's less 'OHHH, TABLELANDS SUCKS AND FAILED!' and more about 'What exactly are we trying to accomplish, because we seem to be fighting our own stated path of progression'.

Edit:  Er, which is not to be argumentative and derail.  I just think you misread what the point was and had a good response to...what wasn't being said.  I was just saying that when we make our projects and progress in this way, it can indeed feel like things aren't really moving forward in any way.

I understand what you're trying to get it, I'm just not sure the Tablelands is a good example. The Tablelands has long been a playable area, so continuing to give support to a playable area wouldn't be against the stated goals. There's still no north, so other areas get more attention. Theoretically, the Tablelands and Luirs area helps with player cycling. You can't alternate play between north and south now, but you can alternate play between south and Luirs/tribals.

I think we really need to look at the idea of "consolidation" in general. Our player numbers have been dropping progressively lower since the decision to close Tuluk was made. Basically, a huge portion of the game was yanked out of existence from a play perspective, cutting off opportunities for interaction and exploring a culture very different from Allanak.

I don't think that other areas (tribals, Luirs, Storm) have significantly benefited from Tuluk's close, player population wise. With, of course, the exception that Red Storm has a new clan to play in.

[Taven]

Because I'm curious, are new areas still being added to the game world?

On a regular basis, that is.

I believe that it's more that areas that already exist have had some expansion and added rooms.

If you look through the announcements, you'll also see that a lot of things have been added to fix or expand options, not in terms of exploring rooms, but in terms of adding depth and functionality to what's already there.

[Armaddict]

It wasn't in direct response to your post at all

Mm, it was talking about enough things close to mine that I thought it was.  My mistake then!

I don't think that other areas (tribals, Luirs, Storm) have significantly benefited from Tuluk's close, player population wise. With, of course, the exception that Red Storm has a new clan to play in.

I agree with this, much as I don't want to.  When I heard the announcement I thought of Rebellion-era northlands.  In the current form, there seems to be too little substance in the northlands to bring about much of that particular feel unless we have a bunch of players who...start raiding for no reason, to make it into the badlands-battle-royale for rich hunting grounds that it was.

[Taven]

I don't think that other areas (tribals, Luirs, Storm) have significantly benefited from Tuluk's close, player population wise. With, of course, the exception that Red Storm has a new clan to play in.

I agree with this, much as I don't want to.  When I heard the announcement I thought of Rebellion-era northlands.  In the current form, there seems to be too little substance in the northlands to bring about much of that particular feel unless we have a bunch of players who...start raiding for no reason, to make it into the badlands-battle-royale for rich hunting grounds that it was.

The north, as it stands, isn't designed to have players. Morin's has minimal concessions for the die-hards that want to stay there, put in about a RL year ago. There are no apartments. Morin's is largely designed for short visits. You buy things, and then you leave.

The entire Gol exists as a place where people have trouble even responding ICly, because we don't know what the IC is. Does Tuluk regularly virtually patrol? Or are they all in the city occupied? This uncertainty of the IC status has largely turned the north into a glorified hunting preserve. Staff aren't around to animate often and there's no PC presence. No patrolling soldiers, no noble House partisans or employees in the scrub. By in large, the most common individual in the north isn't a northerner, it's a southerner who wants wood.

[BadSkeelz]

I got their northie wood right here.

[Miradus]

I got their northie wood right here.

use axe

[Chettaman]

Ya know... I ran into another pretty unbelievable plot once before too. I tried sharing it and sounded like a crazy person in game and rightly so, but uh... If I'm not wrong it's still brewing somewhere.  Trust me, when it happens everyone will know.

but uh... I can't even tip-toe around this one without getting in trouble. My character stumbled into it completely by chance ... I think.

Back to the idea of how to make the world less static - I think when I said that we should improve the 'rinth, which I meant, I also meant to compare it to the rest of allanak. While the down trodden certainly exist in the labyrinth, they certainly exist south of the narrows. The only difference is law enforcement, right?
I also said that I have little to no experience so I can't really give advice, but I just feel like people don't notice the similarities of both worlds. The "law" as you might say, is just different in these lands. ... what was my point?
I think I started babbling and none of that has to do with making the world less static.

[Norcal]

There are plots happening in Allanak and in other spots. They are not the big HRPT things that the tribal staff ran a few months back, yet they are there.

There are certain PCs in game now who,  from my perspective, are doing their best to get the plots out of the backroom and into the lap of the average player.

WE NEED MORE OF THESE TYPES OF LEADERS.

Then the little plot suddenly becomes much bigger. Push becomes shove becomes...fill in the blank.

I think some staff and certainly some leadership players are extremely conservative. Plots are often too hush hush and folks don't want to take the risks of conflict. Or staff might not want to support it. On that point I am only speculating.

Another problem at the present moment is that it is summer and some staff are off having lives. Only some though. Which means there are not enough hands for the work and things kind of slow down.  And we still do not know what they already have up their sleeves and is coming soon.

So in the mean time..it falls to the playerbase to spice things up. Get spicin'!

[Patuk]

Plots are often too hush hush and folks don't want to take the risks of conflict. Or staff might not want to support it. On that point I am only speculating.

I rather well remember that at one point, Jingo was ICly told off for using whisper rather than psi to tell someone something. So, it happens.

[Majikal]

Why I think the world feels static to some players.

I think the single, biggest problem with the playerbase at large is their unwillingness to take risks. Be willing to walk your pc into conflict, sometimes your enemies have the upper hand, allow your pc to lose and feel awesome that their story came to a close with intrigue, murder, betrayal, corruption. Hanging on and eventually getting murdered by Rantarri #742 is not the endings I remember most, I remember being betrayed by my closest friends, lovers, my employer. I remember a psionic obsessing over my pc and twisting my thoughts into a weird obsession about something that eventually led me into their trap. I remember conflict and epic stories of betrayal, I remember conflict.

Take risks, let the story go, have your pc's make bad decisions and watch something interesting become of it. The world feels much less static then. I think I only ever missed one hrpt in the past, I remember small snapshots from them and cool moments, but by far the things that have made the world come alive to me are the interesting conflicts driven by players. So stop being boring. 

[Miradus]

I get fed a plot stringer and I'm all like, "Oooo! I get to do something!" and within 24 hours EVERYTIME I've beetled, or ran into a mekillot, or lost link in bahamet territory to log back on stunned.

Mama says plots are the devil.

[valeria]

Take risks, let the story go, have your pc's make bad decisions and watch something interesting become of it. The world feels much less static then. I think I only ever missed one hrpt in the past, I remember small snapshots from them and cool moments, but by far the things that have made the world come alive to me are the interesting conflicts driven by players. So stop being boring. 

This.  It can be really hard to let your character be manipulated or to take risks generally, but many of the very fun times I've had in the game (and some of the best deaths I've had) have come from letting someone use my character's flaws to my disadvantage.

[Dresan]

I don't want to go into too much detail, but I can assure people that allanak was getting alot of information about what was going on in the tablelands. Could that information have been slightly more open to the general public, on IC boards, yes, but for those interested, they only needed to travel to luirs to get all the information they wanted. This isn't even mentioning how much effort was being put to attract people to get involved ICly and OOCly, and for good reason because the allanak leadership had no reason to care at all.


In fact much of the leadership in allanak had a good idea of all the events that were going on. But again, they didn't care, and why would they care? They already won.  The irony here is this highlights one of the biggest 'issues' with the game. And thats with the current state of Allanak. Its been said this before, allanak is at the peak of decadence. It is the current state of this last untouchable city that makes the entire world feel static.


ICly allanak has won. There are no threats it needs to give a shit about currently. A castle full of monsters is nothing more than a boring chore left to disposable people. High society in allanak gives more of a shit about what colour of shoes to wear tomorrow then finding long lost treasure or resources outside the city.  I remember I was trying to offer a noble information, goods, rare resources in exchange for some protection...not interested in the least.

Tuluk(and its nobles and leadership) had reason to be interested in what was going on around it: resources, stronger allies, new technology, or new information. They would have gotten involved, if only for a slimer of a chance to remain a step ahead of their mortal enemy allanak, who could attack at any moment with strong army and magicks. Allanak has no such fears, it barely did when Tuluk was around. Now with tuluk fighting itself, its got everything it needs. Anything involving allanak just feels petty in the grand scheme of things because it is petty. There is no need to be ambitious.

Although i think some of the changes will hopefully begin to set the stage for more dynamics within allanak, ultimately allanak needs to pay for its arrogance and decadence. Once allanak doesn't feel completely untouchable anymore, many of the things that are happening in and around allanak won't feel so petty anymore, and maybe then the leadership can focus on something other than throwing another party.