Ideas to make life in the wilds more wild

[nauta]

I'm not saying make life in the wilds icly easier, but what follows are some ideas I had to make it less oocly onerous, as well as ideas to generate conditions for expanded and different kinds of RP outside the gates.  Also, all of this is with blindness of code accepted, although I like to think the ideas put forward aim to be the least code intensive.  Some of this is old news, but I figure there's a lot of bright minds out there.

Motivation: I'd love to play a feral child of the wilds, or a real nomad, who has a small tent set up between two rocks, filled with bone bits, furs, a few buckets of fetid water.

1. Tent Save Rooms.  First, fix that tent bug that makes tents useless for saving things.  I wouldn't want tents to be big in coded capacity, but a change of clothes, a bucket of water, etc. would be good.  Many small-capacity tents rather than one big-capacity tent, or different kinds of tents (see below).

2. Tent Quit Rooms.  Just as your mount quits with you, so too your tent and its contents would quit with you.  (This is meant to be the solution to the problem of PCs clearing out your tent while you are logged off.)

3. Mount Tents.  Having played a desert elf, I can tell you that waiting around to regen that stamina is very boring.  Fortunately, I could crawl into a tent.  Mounts can't do that.  I think someone suggested it before, but: a tent, or tarp, that would allow your mount to restore quicker -- it'd weigh a suitable amount to offset the advantage, of course, just as a d-elf can decide to go light and forgo the tent or go heavy and carry the tent.

4. Bury Persist.  Perhaps have it decay after 1 IG year, but at present things only last buried until the next reboot.

5. Campfires.  Making a campfire is IMHO oocly onerous.  Perhaps the raw ingredients for the initial craft command (at present branches and poop iirc from the help file) could be made to be more common (scraps of cloth, pech grass, bits of chalton bone).  Basic thesis: campfires should be much much easier to make.

6. Animal Noises.  Most animals could make some sort of noise -before- they attack and destroy your tent, giving you time to defend it.  Perhaps: if you have the listen skill (or even without) and you haven't moved rooms in 10 minutes RL, there'd be echoes about, say, "The constant chirping of desert booboos quiets."  Or "A soft skittering noise is heard in the distance." -- if an aggressive mob enters the adjacent rooms.  I think this is one of my biggest peeves, and let me try to draw a distinction: if I'm wandering around in the wilds, swords out, looking or hunting: I want that rush of danger from a potential blindsided ambush.  But if I'm sitting back at camp, roleplaying and emoting things out, I'd like to sheath my weapons and assume the game world would be 'considerate' enough to give me a moment to react.

7. Tent Destruction.  It could just be me, but I've lost a lot of tents.  A lot.  It seems like animals target them over people.  Perhaps change that, and allow 'guard tent' to be better.

8. Tent Repair.  Is this a thing?

9. Different Kinds of Tents.  You could have a Storage Tent, which is bulky, heavy, but can store things in it; and a Travel Tent, lighter, which can't store as much.  (Idea here: someone comes on a tent in the game now and it's yoinksville, I'll take that!  But if it's a storage tent, they'll need a mount or something dedicated to the yoink.)  Also more low-end tents: maybe make them not restore stamina.

10. Close Tent Flap.  This would give would-be raiders pause before they assume a tent is empty, enter it, take the stuff, and leave.

11. Give rangers tentmaking (at least for low-end tents)?

Ok, those are some ideas.  I think I had others.

[Jihelu]

Making camp fires is stupid as hell.
"Oh you need exactly three BLANK and one BLANK to make a fire!"
but why
You could just make 1 kindling 1 burnable thing make a 'base' for the fire and then you chuck kindling and wood in to get the fire bigger.
I'd like that better.

[SuchDragonWow]

I would love to see more unique things in the wild to draw in the unwary or foolhardy.  The promise of wild treasure, like giant silt pearls, funny colored silkworms or glowing this or thats.  I'm not sure that's what the OP wants, though.  Maybe this is the wrong thread.

[Desertman]

Nauta's List

1. Yes.
2. No. (Hire people to guard your tent when you are offline if you feel it deserves to be immune/better protected.)
3. I feel like someone could accomplish this IC if they chose to.
4. Yes.
5. Find this out IC. This already exists and actually isn't hard to find. I'm not just saying this. I have foraged kindling in the south a thousand times.
6. It does suck that things destroy your tent when you are in your tent. Then again, it's also very realistic. I'm torn on this one.
7. I don't have a problem with critters being forced to auto-target people and mounts before tents in a room with a tent. Makes sense. Yes.
8. Yes. I would like tent repair. Why not.
9. I know of three different types of tents coded differently now. Two fit what you are describing already. I'm not opposed to more though.

[nauta]

Re: #2 (Tents and Contents Quitting With You)

I can see arguments on both sides, but let me try to pitch one in its defense.  First, the idea here is that you are a feral hunter, who has a little tent pitched in some rocks, filled with a few trifles.  You'd leave that camp to go hunt, and return to it.  While you are logged in, there is a chance that someone will pinch it. While you are logged off, however, you are virtually there, but that's not represented, so it's 100% safe for someone to pinch your stuff while you are logged off, as a kind of meta thing.  Plus, tents are pretty expensive, and so there's almost 100% guarantee that someone will steal your tent.  Sure you can hire someone to keep an eye on your tent, which would create interaction, but this can still happen while you are logged in.

Frankly, I wouldn't mind 'tentmaking' added to the Ranger subguild, or at least the ability to make really tiny tents, crude ones that decay and require lots of repair.  This might alleviate the meta-thing of someone stealing your tent while you are logged out.

As with campfires, I just think that semi-permanent tents should be far more common than they are now, but certain OOC pressures I think make both pretty rare.  At least in my limited experience, tents are almost always used as follows:

Code Select Expand


mine hard; unpack bag beetle; get tent bag; drop tent; make tent; enter tent; rest; leave tent; roll tent; put tent bag; pack bag beetle;


Re #5 (Onerous Campfires)

5. Find this out IC. This already exists and actually isn't hard to find. I'm not just saying this. I have foraged kindling in the south a thousand times.

I haven't tried to make a campfire in a RL year, but my last experience with it was:

- It was oocly onerous to get the base materials together for the initial craft X X X into campfire command.
- It was a little annoying, since I often was surrounded by virtual ingredients that would've suited for a campfire.
- It was a little annoying, since the ingredients are heavy enough that it matters.
- It was a little annoying, since the campfire didn't last very long.
- It was a little annoying, since most recipes don't require a coded campfire anyway (so it was just a flavour prop).

There might be others, but tl/dr: I'd like to see MORE campfires out there -- it should be a staple in the wilds -- and I think that there are a lot of little things that make making a campfire kind of tedious.  You should be able to make them quickly and often.  As it is now (or was, and this is a bit of hyperbole) it was easier to make up a wardrobe and a bunch of chests and trunks on the fly than it was to make up a campfire.

Also,

added a 10th one by the way to the main post.

[RogueGunslinger]

I've straight up roleplayed virtual campfires and I had no regret doing so.

However with the way fire is being made as useful for crafting things and such I've been hesitant to keep doing it. I'd really love if building a fire was simpler. Then I wouldn't have to cook all my food with my torch. 

[Desertman]

5. Find this out IC. This already exists and actually isn't hard to find. I'm not just saying this. I have foraged kindling in the south a thousand times.

I haven't tried to make a campfire in a RL year, but my last experience with it was:

- It was oocly onerous to get the base materials together for the initial craft X X X into campfire command.
- It was a little annoying, since I often was surrounded by virtual ingredients that would've suited for a campfire.
- It was a little annoying, since the ingredients are heavy enough that it matters.
- It was a little annoying, since the campfire didn't last very long.
- It was a little annoying, since most recipes don't require a coded campfire anyway (so it was just a flavour prop).

There might be others, but tl/dr: I'd like to see MORE campfires out there -- it should be a staple in the wilds -- and I think that there are a lot of little things that make making a campfire kind of tedious.  You should be able to make them quickly and often.  As it is now (or was, and this is a bit of hyperbole) it was easier to make up a wardrobe and a bunch of chests and trunks on the fly than it was to make up a campfire.

Also,

added a 10th one by the way to the main post.

Hey I agree with you overall. I ALSO want to see more campfires and see them easier to make. I just thought you were upset there wasn't any readily available kindling in the southlands which is all I was touching on.

I would ALSO like to see having a campfire/firepit/other source of coded fire in the room be a requirement for cooking ALL things.

[Desertman]

10. Yes. Good idea. 

[nauta]

Yeah, shoulda been clearer.  I think what gets me about campfires is that's something I actually as a player know how to do IRL and it isn't that hard (as opposed to a lot of shit my characters do), and I'm like: Wait, I can't make a campfire?  Hehe.

Also ninja-edited a defense of Quit-Tents above!  Sorry!  

[Vositus]

6. Animal Noises.

It's been a very long time since I played someone that spends more than a day outside a city, but this sounds AWESOME!

If not to warn you of an attack, just to get a room echo of the kinds of things you'd hear at night would be incredibly immersive and really set the scene. (if they don't already exist in the game) If those sounds were linked to mobs moving around in adjacent rooms... even better!

[Chettaman]

Make mounts much more expensive.
This should encourage more people to leave the city without one. - and thus, make it much more terrifying without the ability to sneak or hide in the bushes.

either encourage more people to leave ... or encourage more people to stay inside like pansies. xD
well. I guess in the south being on foot is more annoying than scary due to how long it frick'n takes to regain stamina.

** Make stamina regen in the southern desert a little on-footable.
**** Mm... nah. You go out, find something to kill. Take a break. Maybe even eat something you kill and head back.

This will also encourage people to join groups because they have mounts and free stuff for days while the peasants must either go out on foot or work even harder to get what they want - which they'll have to do on foot anyway. Muahahaha! You want an erdlu that you're too tall to ride...? That'll be 1000 coins, suckuh!! Muahaha! Pfft... a sunback? 2000! Inix? 5000!!! Struggle, peasants! STRUGGLE!!

[valeria]

These all sound like ideas to civilize the wild, to me.

[manipura]

These all sound like ideas to civilize the wild, to me.

Your succinct statement sums up the gist of the long response I typed earlier in the day but didn't bother posting.

[Lizzie]

5. Find this out IC. This already exists and actually isn't hard to find. I'm not just saying this. I have foraged kindling in the south a thousand times.

I haven't tried to make a campfire in a RL year, but my last experience with it was:

- It was oocly onerous to get the base materials together for the initial craft X X X into campfire command.
- It was a little annoying, since I often was surrounded by virtual ingredients that would've suited for a campfire.
- It was a little annoying, since the ingredients are heavy enough that it matters.
- It was a little annoying, since the campfire didn't last very long.
- It was a little annoying, since most recipes don't require a coded campfire anyway (so it was just a flavour prop).

There might be others, but tl/dr: I'd like to see MORE campfires out there -- it should be a staple in the wilds -- and I think that there are a lot of little things that make making a campfire kind of tedious.  You should be able to make them quickly and often.  As it is now (or was, and this is a bit of hyperbole) it was easier to make up a wardrobe and a bunch of chests and trunks on the fly than it was to make up a campfire.

Also,

added a 10th one by the way to the main post.

Hey I agree with you overall. I ALSO want to see more campfires and see them easier to make. I just thought you were upset there wasn't any readily available kindling in the southlands which is all I was touching on.

I would ALSO like to see having a campfire/firepit/other source of coded fire in the room be a requirement for cooking ALL things.

Why? According to the weather helpfile, it can get upward to 140 degrees (f) in the mid-day sun in certain locations. Hell I've actually roleplayed out with full emotes, setting raw meat out on a flat stone heated by the desert sun, to sear my meat into a fair rendition of steak tartar. All you need is a flat hot surface to cook MOST things, and it doesn't have to be fueled from underneath if the heat above is hot enough.

Get a lump of glass and you could probably hold it up over the meat, which is sitting on a convex stone, with some beans and a sliced kalan fruit, and make yourself a nice roasted brisket without ever seeing a single flame.

[valeria]

Just think of all those big, flat obsidian stones lying around.  And think of how hot pavement gets under direct sun in the summer.  And use your imagination. 

[RogueGunslinger]

I'd love to see someone make raptor-nuggets with only the power of the sun.

Why I don't like the docs on heat: "well above 140 degrees" = you're dead. There would be no starving masses. There would only be bodies. The highest Earth gets, in the hottest spots = 134 F. Those places are incredibly deadly. Without an abundance of water... just, no way.

Also why I don't like cookin in the sun: Storms, you going to roleplay around it when you get hungry, or you going to let yourself starve? Cooking meat, even at 140 degrees in the sun, fuck even at 165 degrees in the sun, would absolutely require that magnifying glass, as well as an obsidian surface to sit on. And even still, it would take all day to cook anything thicker than a steak (all earth day, remember, zalanthas' are shorter days, so less time to cook). Even with constant 200 degrees in an oven it takes me like 5 hours to get my meat to about 130 internal temp(rare).

Also why waste all that time when you can just whip out your torch and cook it on that.

[hyzhenhok]

Using torches for lighting is already dumb enough, but at least it's an established fantasy trope. Using a torch for cooking....

[nauta]

I just eat raw meat -- like in the scene from the Revenant.

[lostinspace]

I'm against all of these except bury persisting and closing tent flaps.

[RogueGunslinger]

Using torches for lighting is already dumb enough, but at least it's an established fantasy trope. Using a torch for cooking....

I'm just pointing out the struggle to suspend disbelief and make sense of, say; emerging from a cave, tucking away your torch, and then proceeding to try and cook your scrab-steak on a slab of obsidian in the sun.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I would ALSO like to see having a campfire/firepit/other source of coded fire in the room be a requirement for cooking ALL things.

+1 Well, not ALL things, but anything requiring heat.

[Lizzie]

Using torches for lighting is already dumb enough, but at least it's an established fantasy trope. Using a torch for cooking....

I'm just pointing out the struggle to suspend disbelief and make sense of, say; emerging from a cave, tucking away your torch, and then proceeding to try and cook your scrab-steak on a slab of obsidian in the sun.

I've done that. In fact when I want to cook "out in the wilds" I will *usually* cook on a flat stone surface in mid-day. Why? Because the flat stone surface will absorb the heat of the sun's rays beating down, and will typically be much hotter than the air. If the zalanthan desert in the canyon of wastes is around 140, then the flat slab of dark-colored stone could very well be 160 or more. That's enough to sear or slow-cook a steak, and enough to fry just about anything if it's thin enough. No flame necessary; just enough heat, and protection from blowing sand and from high wind.

[valeria]

Nevermind that for a decent solar cooker, all you need is a black pot and an inverted glass bowl, both things which are readily available on Zalanthas.  Also with how little fuel there is and how much sun there is, you'd think that solar coolers would be prevalent, but yes, they do take a while.

[nauta]

These all sound like ideas to civilize the wild, to me.

Yeah, the title is a bit deceptive.  Let me roll a motivation for the ideas.  Basically, I'd like to brainstorm ideas for opening up new and different opportunities for RP and lifestyle outside the gates.  I don't want to make the wilds ICly easier, but OOCly less onerous, but at root I want to allow for roles like a nomad or a wild child living outside the gates.  At present, in my view, your options for living outside the gates (minus desert elves and coded human tribes) are limited to:

1. Adventurer/Explorer.  Someone who carries all their stuff with them.

2. City-based Hunter. Someone who rents an apartment/tent inside the gates, and goes outside the gates to hunt, then returns inside the gates.

I'd like to see:

3. Wilds-based Hunter.  Someone who lives outside and only comes inside the gate to trade.

(3) is possible now, but it requires some ooc inconveniences.  For instance, you can't actually store anything outside -- not because of raiders but because game crashes / reboots.  Allowing people to store a few things outside would would encourage more players to roll up wilds-based characters, and, as a result, encourage raiders to raid them!  I also tended to only see types (1) and (2) out in the wilds -- I saw some great concepts for (3) -- wild woodsmen, feral children, nomads, etc. but they all ended up going with (2) or (1) and just pretending to have a camp outside the gates presumably because of the OOC inconvenience of actually making a coded camp (not because it was ICly any more dangerous).

Likewise with campfires, although here the code is in two places since only some items require campfires, but I remember once I was out running with my elves, and we wanted to make a certain meat that required a campfire. Since campfires were such an OOC pain to make, we decided we'd run halfway across the known to Morin's to cook the meat there.

[Desertman]

Most of these actually seem geared mainly towards making desert elf life easier since that is who would likely utilize most of this on a regular basis.