Bash -> Subdue?

[Miradus]

As for running away from or avoiding strange people in the wastes. I feel like it's kind of the logical thing to do. 

Like the time a naked half giant invited me into his tent.

I thought, "Would I do this in real life? No." and mounted up on my imaginary desert lizard and rode off swiftly.

[Riev]

I dunno. I'm not going to play the victim in someone's "Reservoir Dogs" roleplay session just because I happened to decide to rest alongside the road. And there seems to be an awful lot of complaining here regarding people who (like me) just ride away rather than talk to others in a potentially hostile situation.

This is one of those scenarios that people use to say "I don't want things forced on my character because what if..." that doesn't happen. For the most part, kidnappings and the like aren't fun for the person being kidnapped, and since you can't GUARANTEE that you will be on at the same time as your captors, it ends up being a quick scene or something anyway. If you're resting on the side of the road, outside of a city, I sure as shit hope someone grabs you and takes your gear.


I can see that there would need to maybe some -SOMETHING- to assist with a master at subdue just effectively ending combat at their whim and will. But subdue CAN still fail due to size/racial restrictions, and typically the subdued gets a couple chances to flee before something happens.

Bash -> Subdue, I suppose, would remove that capability. Maybe if raw defense score could be factored in?

[Warsong]

Sap and backstab take an incredible amount of work to get to higher levels. Subdue can be used reliably by any 0-day half-giant.

[RogueGunslinger]

Sap and backstab take an incredible amount of work to get to higher levels. Subdue can be used reliably by any 0-day half-giant.

Sap and backstab do not take incredible work to get higher levels. In fact they're some of the easier skills to advance in. Tack on skill-bumps and you can have maxed backstab in a couple RL weeks.

A half-giant requires 3 karma, backstab and sap don't.

[Riev]

I don't know, he makes a good point, RGS. Halfgiant are 3 karma but that didn't stop a slew of subdue->kill back in the day. Karma is a level of trust, but breaking that trust once to completely bang over someone else's role isn't unheard of.


I think it would be fine in height/weight didn't factor SO HEAVILY into subdue, to the point that a master subdue/master flee PC would have a hard time escaping a novice subdue halfgiant.

It WOULD be very annoying to be in the middle of combat, winning, and a halfgiant just picks you up. Though I sure would love to see someone bring 3 halfgiants to a spider fight, only to watch them pick up spiders with subdue, and throw them back into the nest.

[RogueGunslinger]

I don't even understand your point let alone his.

If someone bashes you, and follows up with subdue, instead of just murdering you ass I don't really understand how it can be considered over-powered when its purpose is to NOT kill someone. The instances where you'll be losing a fight and have to subdue someone to survive? Incredibly rare and that's only going to happen on a half-giant or someone who has master-subdue. Because fleeing will 100% be a better option than risking the chance of dropping your weapons mid-fight.

Comparing it to subdue-kill is sort of silly. Because the way it would be used 99.9% of the time is in situations you would have already won, or situations where you're trying your best NOT to kill your target, but simply incapacitate them. As it stands if you want to stop someone from going all murdery, your only option is to kill them or knock them out.

I also find it 100% realistic that a half-giant would be able to pick someone up who was attacking them mid-fight. Because all the fancy and flashy moves your maxed warrior can pull off shouldn't mean shit in the face of two thousand pounds of muscle and fury.

You're also neglecting the fact that to pull it off would take both a successful bash and a successful subdue.

[evilcabbage]

I don't even understand your point let alone his.

If someone bashes you, and follows up with subdue, instead of just murdering you ass I don't really understand how it can be considered over-powered when its purpose is to NOT kill someone. The instances where you'll be losing a fight and have to subdue someone to survive? Incredibly rare and that's only going to happen on a half-giant or someone who has master-subdue. Because fleeing will 100% be a better option than risking the chance of dropping your weapons mid-fight.

Comparing it to subdue-kill is sort of silly. Because the way it would be used 99.9% of the time is in situations you would have already won, or situations where you're trying your best NOT to kill your target, but simply incapacitate them. As it stands if you want to stop someone from going all murdery, your only option is to kill them or knock them out.

I also find it 100% realistic that a half-giant would be able to pick someone up who was attacking them mid-fight. Because all the fancy and flashy moves your maxed warrior can pull off shouldn't mean shit in the face of two thousand pounds of muscle and fury.

You're also neglecting the fact that to pull it off would take both a successful bash and a successful subdue.

half giants definitely do not weigh 1000 stone my friend.

[RogueGunslinger]

I don't even understand your point let alone his.

If someone bashes you, and follows up with subdue, instead of just murdering you ass I don't really understand how it can be considered over-powered when its purpose is to NOT kill someone. The instances where you'll be losing a fight and have to subdue someone to survive? Incredibly rare and that's only going to happen on a half-giant or someone who has master-subdue. Because fleeing will 100% be a better option than risking the chance of dropping your weapons mid-fight.

Comparing it to subdue-kill is sort of silly. Because the way it would be used 99.9% of the time is in situations you would have already won, or situations where you're trying your best NOT to kill your target, but simply incapacitate them. As it stands if you want to stop someone from going all murdery, your only option is to kill them or knock them out.

I also find it 100% realistic that a half-giant would be able to pick someone up who was attacking them mid-fight. Because all the fancy and flashy moves your maxed warrior can pull off shouldn't mean shit in the face of two thousand pounds of muscle and fury.

You're also neglecting the fact that to pull it off would take both a successful bash and a successful subdue.

half giants definitely do not weigh 1000 stone my friend.

What do they weigh?

[evilcabbage]

i think it was closer to 50-70 tenstone?

[RogueGunslinger]

Nope, it's 75-90.

Sorry I exaggerated 16 lbs.

[evilcabbage]

well.

round two:

whoops, i was wrong.

[RogueGunslinger]

Don't worry I didn't know for sure either, had to look up the last HG I made in my logs to find out.

[Armaddict]

In to note that subdue/kill is nowhere near as effective as it once was.  Unless you have a buddy.  Anecdotal evidence:  I tried when I played my last two half-giants.

[Patuk]

As a point of contrast, I saw someone subdued by a half-giant in an interrogation scene with a templar and a load of others.  She slipped from the grip with one flee, and just walked away from the scene, and made it all the way to Tuluk.

I feel slightly offended over you leaving out 'bare-chested' and 'supply-free' from this otherwise true account, sir.