Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo

Started by Nyr, August 09, 2015, 12:10:19 PM

After a week of feedback/testing/etc, here's the preview for tomorrow's code release.  We'll announce separately at that point/crosspost here when it is actually live.




Withdrawal transaction fee changed to deposit transaction fee.

Nobles and templars are now exempt from transaction fees.

GMH family "clans" created.  Existing family members will need to be added to these clans.  GMH family will be charged half as much as other commoners on deposit transaction fees.

Current transaction fees for commoners (levied upon deposit):

  • 0-1999 coins:  no fees
  • 2000-4999 coins:  5%, and at this point, you must make a minimum deposit of 50 coins
  • 5000-14,999 coins:  10%
  • 15,000-29,999 coins:  15%
  • 30,000+ coins:  20%

Verbiage change on banker NPCs: The banker NPC will address templars by their titles (Lord Templar/Lady Templar) and nobles by their titles (Lord Fale/Lady Fale/etc).  They will also lay out the percentages in a way that makes more IC sense. 

In the following scenario, the commoner has 35000 coins in their account from turning tricks and savvy investing in the Zalanthan poopsmithing market:

> with 1000
The Nenyuki banker tells you, 'You now have 34000 coins in your account.'
The Nenyuki banker says to you, "For an account that large your deposit fee will be 20 for every 100 coins put in."
> i
You are carrying:
1000 obsidian pieces
> balance
The Nenyuki banker says to you, "You have 34000 coins in your account."
The Nenyuki banker says to you, "For an account that large your deposit fee will be 20 for every 100 coins put in."
> dep 1000
The Nenyuki banker tells you, '...and a 200 coin fee on your deposit.'
The Nenyuki banker tells you, 'You now have 34800 coins in your account.'
The Nenyuki banker says to you, "For an account that large your deposit fee will be 20 for every 100 coins put in."
> i
You are carrying:
nothing.


And then the savvy investor pulls out 20 coins from his pocketbook to try and deposit (which is less than the 50 minimum needed for a deposit since he has a bank account that is over 2000 coins).


You are carrying:
20 obsidian coins.
> dep 20
The Nenyuki banker tells you, 'Sorry, but you must deposit at least 50 coins to make it worth my time.'
> balance
The Nenyuki banker says to you, "You have 34800 coins in your account."
The Nenyuki banker says to you, "For an account that large your deposit fee will be 20 for every 100 coins put in."
The Nenyuki banker tells you, 'You do not have that much obsidian!'

Quote from: LauraMars on December 15, 2016, 08:17:36 PMPaint on a mustache and be a dude for a day. Stuff some melons down my shirt, cinch up a corset and pass as a girl.

With appropriate roleplay of course.

Here's the old thread for archival review (it's locked now) in case anyone wants to read it.
Quote from: LauraMars on December 15, 2016, 08:17:36 PMPaint on a mustache and be a dude for a day. Stuff some melons down my shirt, cinch up a corset and pass as a girl.

With appropriate roleplay of course.

I think the other way made more IG sense for the Nenyuki to want to encourage you to deposit all of your money, but ...  hey, it must be a playability thing.  The changes to noble/templar/GMH are spot on.  Thanks!

I like these changes.  I honestly have been avoiding using the bank because I don't like doing math problems to play the game.  Now I can just shove my money in and some will vanish.  Cool.

More believable and playable from a sponsored role perspective too.  I was not looking forward to my future Nicolas Cage templar pc storing all his coin in his mattress.
Child, child, if you come to this doomed house, what is to save you?

A voice whispers, "Read the tales upon the walls."

August 09, 2015, 12:25:35 PM #4 Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 12:27:12 PM by Kismetic
What am I, a fucking half-giant, maaan?

I have to admit, I've been using the bank less.  I caught myself carrying around two large the other day, just willy nilly.  I wasn't sure this was a bad thing for the game, though.  :P

I think it's good for people to carry more money around.  I even think the original idea of charging nobles/templars money was not necessarily bad.  It reminded me of the Iron Bank of Braavos and gave Nenyuk a very neutral and inflexible flavor...nobody is exempt from fees.  If Armageddon was a book I would be fine with the idea.

From a game design perspective I didn't like it.  My noble was always counting every coin.  I'd be discouraged and feel punished as a player if I felt like 5-20% of my relatively static income was being vacuumed away before I had a chance to inject it into the playerbase.  Plus I can think of a million things I'd rather be doing with my time as a sponsored role than hiking back to the estate to get coins every time I want to buy some swag.

Now I kind of like the idea of using Nenyuk freely being a status symbol on par with wearing silk, haha.

The noble-looking, tressy-tressed man says, in sirihish:
    "Oh, you're giving me twenty coins change from my drink order, Aide Malik?  Let me just deposit that exact amount into my Nenyuk account riiiiight now."

The noble-looking, tressy-tressed man slides a pathetic handful of coins across the counter to a Nenyuki banker, smirking at the unaffiliated poop baron across the room.
Child, child, if you come to this doomed house, what is to save you?

A voice whispers, "Read the tales upon the walls."

Five thumbs up.
Former player as of 2/27/23, sending love.


This clears up the only concerns I had. Nice.
So if you're tired of the same old story
Oh, turn some pages. - "Roll with the Changes," REO Speedwagon

I like this. I think it will give players more incentive to do something more with their coins than put them in the bank.
"It's too hot in the hottub!"

-James Brown

https://youtu.be/ZCOSPtyZAPA

This idea is 100% Lizzie-endorsed.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

August 09, 2015, 01:38:07 PM #11 Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 01:56:40 PM by wizturbo
Awesome!

I just realized that nobles can now provide a valuable service for wealthy independent merchants...free banking.

20% more is a competitive advantage for a struggling indie that manages to befriend a noble and establish trust.  That's yet another major advantage from gaining an ally with vastly more political power than yourself, which seems to fit the settling.

One more suggestion, have the banking fees be different for each merchant house at some point if possible.  They could reflect how much political backing that house has in Allanak.  House Terash might have very low fees, whereas Kuraci may have higher than Salarr due to past mischief , etc.  It could be something for Merchant houses to chase, build up enough political backing for even a 1% fee reduction and that's a major accomplishment.  It can give politics some teeth for mistakes that bring fees the other direction too.  I'd also include the general principle that if one houses fees go down, someone else's must go up to pay for it...the city isn't going to take a budget cut after all and Nenyuk is going to fight for its profits too....conflict waiting to happen.  A Kadian wants to finagle a fee reduction for the House and earn glorious profits?  Well they have to find some other House to screw over to do it :)


Quote from: flurry on August 09, 2015, 01:04:08 PM
This clears up the only concerns I had. Nice.

Yep. Thanks for listening to our feedback!

Quote from: wizturbo on August 09, 2015, 01:38:07 PMI just realized that nobles can now provide a valuable service for wealthy independent merchants...free banking.

Ha, I'm reminded of the guy from the Professional who keeps all of Leon's money "safe" for him.

You havn't grebbed enough salt, friend.
Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on May 20, 2013, 11:16:52 PM
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

I liked the old change, but this makes it reinforce the game's theme so much better!

<3
Quote from: Lizzie on February 10, 2016, 09:37:57 PM
You know I think if James simply retitled his thread "Cheese" and apologized for his first post being off-topic, all problems would be solved.

I'm happy to see the fee changed from withdrawal to deposit.  I feel this makes a lot more sense.

I still think the rates are a bit high, but I'm happier with this arrangement overall.

I was totally okay with the withdraw tax. I am also totally okay with this new version and think it will be easier to use.

Just to be clear, since Nyr gave an example of a rich person, let me know if my example of Generic Noob Amos is wrong:

Amos has no account at all. He shows up from the HoK with 1035 sids. After buying his weapon and gorget and mount, he has 450 sids left. To prevent against noob-theft, he deposits 350 in the bank. His balance is now 350, no fees.

The next day, a noob elf, Malik, tries to elf Amos. But Amos, being Amos, picked warrior-thug, and the elf was a 2-hour merchant/outdoorsman. Amos PKed Malik and now has another 1000 sids, 10 shards of flint, and a small piece of diamond. He deposits 800.

His new balance: 1150, no fees.

He can keep withdrawing and depositing, with no fees, as long as his balance doesn't reach 2000.

Correct?
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

That is correct.
Quote from: LauraMars on December 15, 2016, 08:17:36 PMPaint on a mustache and be a dude for a day. Stuff some melons down my shirt, cinch up a corset and pass as a girl.

With appropriate roleplay of course.

While I would prefer the fees to be steeper on the poor and have the whole system be regressive instead of progressive to better reflect the corruption of the game world, my main concern with the first draft (nobles and templar being hit hardest) has been totally addressed. I'm happy enough.
Quote from: Marauder Moe
Oh my god he's still rocking the sandwich.

I didn't like the other system but was kind of indifferent to it. This new setup is a major improvement.

*two thumbs up*
Quote from: Maester Aemon Targaryen
What is honor compared to a woman's love? ...Wind and words. Wind and words. We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy.

Heya.

Havent played for ages. But check on the beloved Arm every so often.  Quick question. In your example. What will happen if the person does this.

withdraw 50000 coins

balance

Banker says, "You have zero coins in your balance, you pay nothing for our services."

deposit 50000

Balance says, " ... We'll let 2000 go in for free, but the other 48000 coins are going to be charged."

or

Banker says, "50000 have been deposited. If you deposit more, you will be charged"

inventory

100000 coins.

withdraw 50000 coins

Banker says, "You have zero coins in your balance, you pay nothing for our services."

deposit 150000 coins

Banker says, "150000 coins have been deposited. If you deposit more, you will be charged"


Sorry, I'm too lazy to make the syntax look clean and neat, plus I forgot how to do it proper. But I hope my question is clear?

Point is ... if I withdraw everything and then redeposit from zero, will I be charged zero?

All we need now are death panels.

#thanksnyr
Now you're looking for the secret. But you won't find it because of course, you're not really looking. You don't really want to work it out. You want to be fooled.

I'm actually in favor of nobles having to pay something for banking services, just not a sum so astronomical it makes them favor their bedrooms over Nenyuk. Though it could be argued that from an OOC perspective, nobles are meant to drive plots with their money and any hindrance will be an OOC distraction. So I guess whatever works, really.

Eh, I'm comfortable with the idea that a Great Merchant House has to bow down to the ruling political class.

If there was ever a Nenyuk PC I think the way in which they ought service the nobles and templars would be through arranging loans for projects rather than banking fees.

That would be a really cool political role.  8)
Quote from: Marauder Moe
Oh my god he's still rocking the sandwich.

Quote from: Dar on August 10, 2015, 12:27:00 AM
Point is ... if I withdraw everything and then redeposit from zero, will I be charged zero?

Quote-Minimum deposit required when fee is in effect (2,000 or more combined value of deposit + balance)

Deposit + balance, so no.  If you are eligible to be charged a fee (whether your account IS at that amount or WILL BE at that amount with your deposit), you will be charged a fee.
Quote from: LauraMars on December 15, 2016, 08:17:36 PMPaint on a mustache and be a dude for a day. Stuff some melons down my shirt, cinch up a corset and pass as a girl.

With appropriate roleplay of course.

Soooooo, when does interest, the obvious next step get implemented?

I'm guessing interest will arrive some time after Nenyuk begins making standardized loans to commoners. So.... Probably not ever.
"It's too hot in the hottub!"

-James Brown

https://youtu.be/ZCOSPtyZAPA

I like this system much better than the first one. And you fixed both the concerns I had.  Well done Staff!
At your table, the XXXXXXXX templar says in sirihish, echoing:
     "Everyone is SAFE in His Walls."

Wait... you guys actually USE Nenyuk? I generally keep all my wealth adding up in my diamond-studded, throne built of viscous black bricks as I overlook the purple-salt-preserved heads of my contract-killed enemies.

What am I doing wrong?
Quote from: Twilight on January 22, 2013, 08:17:47 PMGreb - To scavenge, forage, and if Whira is with you, loot the dead.
Grebber - One who grebs.

Quote from: FantasyWriter on August 10, 2015, 11:42:07 PM
Wait... you guys actually USE Nenyuk? I generally keep all my wealth adding up in my diamond-studded, throne built of viscous black bricks as I overlook the purple-salt-preserved heads of my contract-killed enemies.

What am I doing wrong?

You're not having sex with the heads, for one.
Quote from: Marauder Moe
Oh my god he's still rocking the sandwich.

Quote from: Kismetic on August 09, 2015, 12:25:35 PM
What am I, a fucking half-giant, maaan?

I have to admit, I've been using the bank less.  I caught myself carrying around two large the other day, just willy nilly.  I wasn't sure this was a bad thing for the game, though.  :P

It was a good thing, but the pitchfork-carrying masses won the day. Back to shoving all my sids in the bank!

I still think it would have been great if:

The dark-haired Nenyuki agent looks at you and says,
"That's cute."
I tripped and Fale down my stairs. Drink milk and you'll grow Uaptal. I know this guy from the state of Tenneshi. This house will go up Borsail tomorrow. I gave my book to him Nenyuk it back again. I hired this guy golfing to Kadius around for a while.

Quote from: Delirium on August 09, 2015, 03:33:52 PM
Quote from: wizturbo on August 09, 2015, 01:38:07 PMI just realized that nobles can now provide a valuable service for wealthy independent merchants...free banking.

Ha, I'm reminded of the guy from the Professional who keeps all of Leon's money "safe" for him.

I fucking loved the Professional.

Also, this change is better.

This has been in a few weeks and I just wanted to chime in and say I have had it affect how I play personally.

I do find myself making decisions about my money that I never would have even put thought into in the past. What was once a completely mindless process now has me making decisions on an IC level about how best to do things. I even take into consideration the ramifications of my actions when stacked against other PC's that I know who may have a reason to react to my decisions.

I like it and I think it's working more or less as intended.

I look forward to where this is going in the future.
Quote from: James de Monet on April 09, 2015, 01:54:57 AM
My phone now autocorrects "damn" to Dman.
Quote from: deathkamon on November 14, 2015, 12:29:56 AM
The young daughter has been filled.

Quote from: musashi on August 10, 2015, 03:04:00 AM
If there was ever a Nenyuk PC

I played one over ten years ago, when I was just a little boy.