Who can/should go to Red's?

[nauta]

Ok, I'm probably not a newbie any more, but, I never really figured this one out.  Here's a few samples:

a. Elves

b. Rinthers

c. Magickers (gemmed)

d. Northrons

e. Byn

f. Breeds

I think there are Byn NPCs in there.  I once saw an elf get beat up for going in there, but then there's that elf shop just next to it...

Obviously, there will be exceptions to the rule, but what's the rule?

[Beethoven]

Staff once animated an NPC soldier to throw an elf out when I was there. But then again, my PC was the kind of person that soldiers would try to keep elves away from, no matter where he/she was.

[valeria]

The rule depends on who's in there, who the person is in your defined categories, and who's around to enforce their personal opinion about who should and shouldn't be in the Red's.

[nauta]

The rule depends on who's in there, who the person is in your defined categories, and who's around to enforce their personal opinion about who should and shouldn't be in the Red's.

I meant more of a "What you would know..." - as in what the virtual world would think about it, and let's assume the person in question is otherwise well dressed, articulate, just also an X where X is one of the above.

[BadSkeelz]

I'm with Valeria in that it really depends on who's in charge at the time. I would venture that rinthis are almost always unwelcome. My militiaman received instructions to this effect from an (NPC) Templar. The rest I could see visiting on a case-by-case basis; I think I threw a person from every single category off the balcony except Byn and Gemmed. You wouldn't see shit-faced runners brawling in the Retreat, but you might see a more sophisticated Sergeant or Lieutenant there to conduct business.

Just remember that the Red's Retreat is a moderately high class tavern that does get a fair bit of noble and Templar traffic through it. If your character would be uncomfortable about being around those people, you should reconsider visiting.

[bcw81]

Pretty sure the Byn has a restriction on anyone below Trooper entering the Red's - though I may just be imagining that (or made the rule up myself when I was sergeanting). Still, with Valeria here. It -really- depends on who's in there. The Reds isn't super high class, but it also isn't Rinthi shitter class either.

[LauraMars]

Just remember that the Red's Retreat is a moderately high class tavern

With an elf-run junk shop within spitting distance of the bartender.

[Lizzie]

I think it might be easier to define who you would typically see there, and then judge everyone else on the situation.

You would typically see:

Aides of nobles and templars
Officer-ranked members of militia and the Byn (as long as they're not dripping blood or stinking like latrines)
*Other noble-house employees
Employees of Greater Merchant Houses (notably crafters and blood-related family members)

*With gemmed Oashis being a rare exception, see below:


Who you -might- see during random visits:

Junior nobles, blue-robed templars
Employees of Greater Merchant Houses (notably hunters past the recruit stage)
Random Allanak citizens wearing clean clothes and not stinking like the dung mounts

Who you would rarely see, but wouldn't be entirely surprised to encounter there:

Gemmed Oashis
Great Lord Samos the Red (since the place is named in his honor)
Senior nobles

Now - compare your character to any of the above. Are they below the lowest level of society in that list? Then you should expect that eventually, someone is going to have a problem with you being there. That doesn't mean you're forbidden to be there, but it does mean you should expect somewhat less favorable than "indifferent" when you're there.

In addition, no matter who your character is - if they're covered with dust, blood, stains, sweat stains, or stink like the latrines, you should expect some reaction that is less favorable than "indifferent."

That's how I see it.

[BadSkeelz]

Just remember that the Red's Retreat is a moderately high class tavern

With an elf-run junk shop within spitting distance of the bartender.

Spitting distance is the closest any elf should come to high class Allanaki citizens #elfhate #hatecycle

Ahem,

It's true that the tavern itself isn't particularly fancy or swanky when you look at what NPCs are there, what's served, et cetera. I think the Gaj gets more Templar visits via echoes than the Red's does. The Red's is just a more convenient/favored watering hole for PC nobles and Templars, which brings its class up.

[Armaddict]

It's smack dab in the middle of a high-traffic portion of the commoner's quarter, across from a slaughterhouse, with elven npc's inside, and a gambling house upstairs.

It is a moderate-class tavern that is 'cleaned up' for its company.  It is the same Tavern that nobles used to go to in order to 'slum it' with commoners, with some minor refurbishment.

I would say just about everyone can go there.  There's no set enforcement for the social status 'required' to be there.  However, particularly elves, breeds, and gemmed, I think, would get a lot more negative attention there.  They may be tolerated, until such a time that someone of actual station arrives and 'requests' (in the way that only high social status can) that things be cleaned up for their patronage.

The 'high class' establishment that people try to make it into exists in the Academy Lounge run by Tor, which people pay to be a member of and in return get a highly regulated, secure, and lavish social scene.  Likewise, the Arboretum displays open declaration that it's meant for people of station only.

Only my opinions, which seem to be incredibly unpopular of late, so who knows?  But I do know that the constant struggle to make it higher class than it is results in a lot of less meaningful conflict that is based purely on disparities between players viewing the world, rather than the world itself.

[slvrmoontiger]

Ahhh one of the reasons I hate Allanak. I had a Bynner once (Runner at the time) that would go into Red's. He was more refined sort that didn't like the grunginess of the Gaj.

No one yelled at him for being in there and the Aides talked to him perfectly fine.

I find it absolutely appalling that just because you don't aspire to a certain class that you can't find yourself a quiet and calm place to sit down and have a drink and talk with normal people that aren't going to try and growl at you.

[FantasyWriter]

Ok, I'm probably not a newbie any more, but, I never really figured this one out.  Here's a few samples:

a. Elves

b. Rinthers

c. Magickers (gemmed)

d. Northrons

e. Byn

f. Breeds

I think there are Byn NPCs in there.  I once saw an elf get beat up for going in there, but then there's that elf shop just next to it...

Obviously, there will be exceptions to the rule, but what's the rule?

Commoners (or less):
Red's Retreat is a public bar.  There is no guard stopping anyone, despite their status/race/employer, so whoever wants to go to Red's can go to Reds.
That being said, if:
Your clan does not want you there, you should probably not be there.
You do not want to be around/draw the attention of nobles, you should probably not be there.
You feel your character's presence might be offensive to a noble, and your character gives a shit about their well being, you should probably not be there when a noble is there, or should haul ass if one arrives (after bowing, of course).
If you are a non-human, non-mundane, or not a citizen of Allanak proper, you should strongly consider the possible consequences v. benifits of going to Red's Retreat.

Nobles (or above):
Red's Retreat is a public bar.  There is no guard stopping anyone, despite their status/race/employer, so whoever wants to go to Red's can go to Reds.
That being said, if:
If you do not wish to be around commoners, there are at least four other public/semi-public places nobles can meet with one another with relative privacy and safety, and you should probably not go to Red's Retreat.
You do not want to be around/draw the attention of commoners, abominations, thieves and assassins, you should probably not be there.
If you are a noble who values their safety, reputation and the cleanliness of their silks, you should strongly consider not hanging around in public places with lowly commoners. This isn't Tuluk. You know better, they know better.  They are slaves with ambition and relative freedom, for better or worse.  There are better places for you to be without "slumming it" which has been a favorite past time of aristocratic classes on and off throughout RL history.

All of that said, Red's Retreat is a place where anyone and everyone can meet with people above or below their station with the relative security of nearby militiamen, and multiple escape routes without greatly lowering their status or appearing to be trying to raise themselves above their station.  In my opinion, if you are "less" than a moderately successful human commoner, you should probably not be "hanging out" in Red's retreat.  Being there to make contacts with/meet your "betters"... Good deal, especially if they are with you at the time to make it obvious that you are there for a reason that would not possibly end with you in jail or clobbered.

[FantasyWriter]

Damn, six responses while I typed mine.
Perhaps I was thinking too hard.

[Patuk]

Why are dwarves and half-giants not included?

[RogueGunslinger]

Why are dwarves and half-giants not included?

Because everyone treats them like stronger, dumber humans.

[nauta]

Why are dwarves and half-giants not included?

I forgot about them.  These have been helpful answers.  I'm actually surprised there's less of a straightforward answer, but as Lizzie's post points out: it's complicated.

[LauraMars]

Big gatherings of nobles/templars shouldn't have to happen in the Red's Retreat, imo, which is in the middle of the filthy commoner's quarter, right next door to a butcher shop and a junk shop.  But I get that there's really no high-class, interaction-friendly alternative besides the Oashi wineshop, which isn't really a tavern (and has the same problem re: location.)

The only about the Red's Retreat that I consider high class is the prices.  But I'm sure Samos visits incognito.

[Molten Heart]

You shouldn't go into the Red's Retreat if you think you might offend a Templar who might in turn kill you.

So basically no one should go, but I'm told tempting death can be a thrill. (And not just the Red's Retreat but anywhere that's dangerous. I never leave the clan compound.)

[FantasyWriter]

  But I get that there's really no high-class, interaction-friendly alternative besides the Oashi wineshop, which isn't really a tavern (and has the same problem re: location.)

By interaction-friendly, do you mean interacting with commoners?

If not, there are the three 'A's.
Atrium, Arboretum, Acadamy? Perhaps even the Silver Ginka, but I haven't read the room desc ther in a long enough time to remember how nice Teresh's tea house is.

[valeria]

  But I get that there's really no high-class, interaction-friendly alternative besides the Oashi wineshop, which isn't really a tavern (and has the same problem re: location.)

By interaction-friendly, do you mean interacting with commoners?

If not, there are the three 'A's.
Atrium, Arboretum, Acadamy? Perhaps even the Silver Ginka, but I haven't read the room desc ther in a long enough time to remember how nice Teresh's tea house is.

The recent changes reopening the Atrium and Academy have really helped in terms of interaction friendly places junior nobles can go to hang out and possibly bump into people.

I also agree that any junior noble in the Red's is no doubt aware that they are, in fact, slumming it.  But as has been mentioned in this thread, visiting seedy taverns for an "authentic" experience is a popular form of youthful rebellion among noble classes of all sorts, so I don't really think people should be surprised to occasionally see junior nobles in there.

[Lizzie]

Why are dwarves and half-giants not included?

They are included.
Employees of GMHs, Bynners higher than runner rank as long as they don't smell like shit and are relatively cleaned up, other employees of nobility, and other assorted Allanak citizens, as long as they're relatively clean and don't stink of shit.

I didn't specify they had to be human.

[HavokBlue]

Trader's Inn is Allanak's hottest new club

[Barzalene]

I agree with almost everything posted. It's a hard question and I don't think the answer is static. I think it depends on who's in there.
It's never going to be perfect and we have to play around it.

Sometimes I miss Traders. Sometimes I remember sitting alone in Traders or being forced to rp only with my pc's sworn enemy because everyday when I'd log in we'd be the only people in there.

[HavokBlue]

I agree with almost everything posted. It's a hard question and I don't think the answer is static. I think it depends on who's in there.
It's never going to be perfect and we have to play around it.

Sometimes I miss Traders. Sometimes I remember sitting alone in Traders or being forced to rp only with my pc's sworn enemy because everyday when I'd log in we'd be the only people in there.

tuluki politics until 2014

WHAM

[Tuannon]

It's kinda sad how the Academy gets bandied about as a place for commoners to meet and greet.

But like Borsail, things have changed since the 'good old days' (tm)