Code Suggestion: Non Desert Elf Rangers

[Asmoth]

It seems like there are skills missing from rangers and they seem to be a little weirdly designed.

So take certain wildlife that runs from you, you have a few choices as a ranger:

1. Ride around chasing it room to room till it eventually is exhausted and then fighting it.

2. If you have managed to unlock sneak and hide, you can dismount, hide and sneak in and hope it doesn't see you to engage it. (hoping someone doesn't happen along and steal your mount while you do that.)

3. Shoot it from afar, which is pretty expensive due to the cost of arrows and bows.

While I understand that Desert Elves have a specific bred into them endurance for running long distances, I have always felt that rangers should be able to just wander around outdoors without a mount in a similar manner.  Right now if you do that, you're a super huge disadvantage though because you don't start with hide and sneak and by the time you're able to do it, you don't want to risk your more mature character for such foolish things. (At least I don't).

Maybe if we made non-d-elves able to walk in the wild without such large movement hits, it would be more of a do-able thing.

I dunno, thoughts.

[CodeMaster]

There probably should be some game that is too elusive for a novice ranger.  Gives you something to aspire to.

[Jihelu]

Maybe give rangers less of a chance to scare the shit out of animals. Dismounted of course. I feel that might fix most of it?

[FantasyWriter]

This is mostly reflecting my personal play style and my RL experience tracking and killing wild game:

I've had more than a few of my rangers seldom, if ever, use mounts.

Like RL, you don't use a vehicle/ATV to run down deer. You drive your ATV/vehicle to a safe, guarded location near the area you plant to hunt in and park it, then set out on foot to stalk or wait out said deer.
Mounts are large, bumbling, and usually loud animals.  If you are hunting down anything that would be skiddish, hunting with a mount is a bad idea both because of how the code works (a reflection of how, IMO, it should work) and how the game world works (reflected through code).

If you are hunting carru or larger, yeah, charging at it with an equally large and aggressive beast is a good idea.
Also having said large and aggressive beast to rely upon when you reach the point of oh-shit-i'm-going-to-die.


All that said, it is perfectly doable to range-hunt with a ranger on foot.  All civilizations have respectable game within walking (and returning without resting) distance from the gates.
Unless you are trying to track down and kill more than two animals per day hunting, which isn't really sustainable, but that is another conversation entirely.

[CodeMaster]

Maybe give rangers less of a chance to scare the shit out of animals. Dismounted of course. I feel that might fix most of it?

This is called sneak... if you want your ranger character to be able to do this fresh out of the package, there are multiple subguilds that'll kit you out with this skill.

In general I think the mechanics are in place for a sufficiently experienced ranger to be able to take down any animal.  Learning how to do so is half the adventure.

[FantasyWriter]

Maybe give rangers less of a chance to scare the shit out of animals. Dismounted of course. I feel that might fix most of it?

If it is a priority for your PC, there are subguillds and extended subguilds that do this without having to wait on your stealth skills to branch.
We also have skill bump apps that can get you pretty close to branching these skills as well, if you want to take a crafting subguild or something else unrelated to ranging.

[Jihelu]

Maybe give rangers less of a chance to scare the shit out of animals. Dismounted of course. I feel that might fix most of it?

If it is a priority for your PC, there are subguillds and extended subguilds that do this without having to wait on your stealth skills to branch.
We also have skill bump apps that can get you pretty close to branching these skills as well, if you want to take a crafting subguild or something else unrelated to ranging.

>Make my statement
>Realize subguilds.
I retract my statement.

[HavokBlue]

Rangers definitely do not need more ways to kill animals.

[slvrmoontiger]

Ranger sneak/hide gets boring after a while. Long lived rangers become boring after a while. From experience with long lived rangers after a while it's more fun to just sit around drinking and talking and socializing than hunting. So starting out there is usually a good idea.

[Clearsighted]

Interestingly enough, running down an animal until it was too tired and exhausted to flee, is one of the oldest hunting tactics in RL. It's still practiced today by Kalahari bush men.

Good luck for a human doing it in Armageddon, though.

[Armaddict]

Rangers definitely do not need more ways to kill animals.

I will always disagree with this until snares and traps are implemented.

[Malken]

Ranger sneak/hide gets boring after a while. Long lived rangers become boring after a while. From experience with long lived rangers after a while it's more fun to just sit around drinking and talking and socializing than hunting. So starting out there is usually a good idea.

Every classes become super boring after a while because you've got nothing left to look forward to code wise and for many of us, that's half the fun of playing the character.

[HavokBlue]

Rangers definitely do not need more ways to kill animals.

I will always disagree with this until snares and traps are implemented.

I'd love snares and traps, but not for hunting animals.

Code Select Expand

A numut-vine cord snaps tight around your ankle, yanking you into the air!

[Armaddict]

Rangers definitely do not need more ways to kill animals.

I will always disagree with this until snares and traps are implemented.

I'd love snares and traps, but not for hunting animals.

Code Select Expand

A numut-vine cord snaps tight around your ankle, yanking you into the air!

See, I think they should be for both.  I'd love for there to be trappers versus everyone having to buy a beetle and chase everything down until it was exhausted.

[hyzhenhok]

Trapper should be a new guild, to make outdoorsy classes more equal to their city-limited brethren. I mean seriously, right now you can get basically the entire outdoors skills kit with a single class? Totally OP.

Make Guild_Trapper start with several outdoorsy skills that Ranger has to branch, but Trapper has to branch many basic Ranger skills. Allow Guild_Rangers to branch new Trap skill with a relatively low cap, but Guild Trapper starts with Trap at Apprentice to make up for its relative lack of "basic" outdoorsy skills. Guild_Trapper should also simply not get Archery, or only be able to branch it and have it cap out at a fairly low level.

[Armaddict]

Trapper should be a new guild, to make outdoorsy classes more equal to their city-limited brethren. I mean seriously, right now you can get basically the entire outdoors skills kit with a single class? Totally OP.

Make Guild_Trapper start with several outdoorsy skills that Ranger has to branch, but Trapper has to branch many basic Ranger skills. Allow Guild_Rangers to branch new Trap skill with a relatively low cap, but Guild Trapper starts with Trap at Apprentice to make up for its relative lack of "basic" outdoorsy skills. Guild_Trapper should also simply not get Archery, or only be able to branch it and have it cap out at a fairly low level.

I'd gladly hash out all sorts of cool details as to hows and whys, but ya know...first we'd need a heads up that trap was actually going to go in.

[Nyr]

While we can and will make adjustments to guilds and subguilds as needed, there are trade-offs for every guild, subguild, and racial choice.

1. Ride around chasing it room to room till it eventually is exhausted and then fighting it.

You could pick a subguild that would assist you here.  You could work together with other people to hunt (so your tribe, or your buddies, or a clanmate).  You could simply not do this as it is not really an efficient way to hunt in the game (though quite valid IRL).

2. If you have managed to unlock sneak and hide, you can dismount, hide and sneak in and hope it doesn't see you to engage it. (hoping someone doesn't happen along and steal your mount while you do that.)

Same as above.  Between subguilds and extended subguilds, there is something to help you, particularly when it comes to hiding and sneaking.  This is also a game such that progression in skill is expected, so you will not be an expert at this at the start.  Plenty of roleplay to be had learning how to track something and sneak up on it unsuccessfully, though more (and more fun) if you are with someone that can teach you.  That's also an option!

3. Shoot it from afar, which is pretty expensive due to the cost of arrows and bows.

This is the only one I would disagree with.  The noted combat advantage for rangers is their long-range capability and ability to better survive the outdoors compared to most others.  If you disregard their biggest advantage, then yes, rangers lack available skills to take down prey.  I'm guilty of this myself, having played a ranger for many, many months when I was new to the game...and not using archery.  Regardless of expense of arrows (you can use rocks and slings after all), the long-range advantage is invaluable, particularly when combined with other skills that the guild has to offer.

[Saellyn]

While we can and will make adjustments to guilds and subguilds as needed, there are trade-offs for every guild, subguild, and racial choice.

1. Ride around chasing it room to room till it eventually is exhausted and then fighting it.

You could pick a subguild that would assist you here.  You could work together with other people to hunt (so your tribe, or your buddies, or a clanmate).  You could simply not do this as it is not really an efficient way to hunt in the game (though quite valid IRL).

2. If you have managed to unlock sneak and hide, you can dismount, hide and sneak in and hope it doesn't see you to engage it. (hoping someone doesn't happen along and steal your mount while you do that.)

Same as above.  Between subguilds and extended subguilds, there is something to help you, particularly when it comes to hiding and sneaking.  This is also a game such that progression in skill is expected, so you will not be an expert at this at the start.  Plenty of roleplay to be had learning how to track something and sneak up on it unsuccessfully, though more (and more fun) if you are with someone that can teach you.  That's also an option!

3. Shoot it from afar, which is pretty expensive due to the cost of arrows and bows.

This is the only one I would disagree with.  The noted combat advantage for rangers is their long-range capability and ability to better survive the outdoors compared to most others.  If you disregard their biggest advantage, then yes, rangers lack available skills to take down prey.  I'm guilty of this myself, having played a ranger for many, many months when I was new to the game...and not using archery.  Regardless of expense of arrows (you can use rocks and slings after all), the long-range advantage is invaluable, particularly when combined with other skills that the guild has to offer.

I'm gonna shut your #3 down by pointing out that:

3. Shoot it from afar, which is pretty expensive due to the cost of arrows and bows.

This I disagree with because there are guilds/subguilds that can counteract this. Wood, feathers and other stuff to make bows and arrows are very common in the game world.

[Desertman]

Rangers are fine in my opinion. There are ways to hunt effectively, even very easily with them as they stand. Part of playing a good ranger AS THE PLAYER and not just "as a toon" is being able to figure out how to do these things behind the keyboard.


I do however like the idea of rangers getting a slight bonus to moving around on foot in the desert compared to other classes in terms of using up less stamina. Not to the degree desert elves get it, since desert elves are known for that, but a little something (like one less stamina tick compared to everyone else) would be kind of nice.

[roughneck]

A bonus to outdoor stamina regen rate would do the trick, I think.

[chuci]

I'd rather see other classes get expanded skills and perks before rangers, even if the ideas make sense. Priority based on current usability and all that.

Burglars and assassins should get in-city trap skills to hold their victims in place or otherwise poison or disable them.

Burglars need apartments with NPCs moving in and out that they can steal from if they time it right (everyone ELSE gets NPCs to practice on, why not burglars?)

Top of my list: clothworkers and armorcrafters should be able to resize items.

It's ridiculous that a master clothworker or armor maker can't figure out how to resize a tunic or a cuirass without staff assistance.

[Molten Heart]

While we can and will make adjustments to guilds and subguilds as needed, there are trade-offs for every guild, subguild, and racial choice.

1. Ride around chasing it room to room till it eventually is exhausted and then fighting it.

You could pick a subguild that would assist you here.  You could work together with other people to hunt (so your tribe, or your buddies, or a clanmate).  You could simply not do this as it is not really an efficient way to hunt in the game (though quite valid IRL).

2. If you have managed to unlock sneak and hide, you can dismount, hide and sneak in and hope it doesn't see you to engage it. (hoping someone doesn't happen along and steal your mount while you do that.)

Same as above.  Between subguilds and extended subguilds, there is something to help you, particularly when it comes to hiding and sneaking.  This is also a game such that progression in skill is expected, so you will not be an expert at this at the start.  Plenty of roleplay to be had learning how to track something and sneak up on it unsuccessfully, though more (and more fun) if you are with someone that can teach you.  That's also an option!

3. Shoot it from afar, which is pretty expensive due to the cost of arrows and bows.

This is the only one I would disagree with.  The noted combat advantage for rangers is their long-range capability and ability to better survive the outdoors compared to most others.  If you disregard their biggest advantage, then yes, rangers lack available skills to take down prey.  I'm guilty of this myself, having played a ranger for many, many months when I was new to the game...and not using archery.  Regardless of expense of arrows (you can use rocks and slings after all), the long-range advantage is invaluable, particularly when combined with other skills that the guild has to offer.

I'm gonna shut your #3 down by pointing out that:

3. Shoot it from afar, which is pretty expensive due to the cost of arrows and bows.

This I disagree with because there are guilds/subguilds that can counteract this. Wood, feathers and other stuff to make bows and arrows are very common in the game world.

Slings and stones are fairly affordable. These seem to be the preferred way for some to progress the archery skill without having to spend all their money because lets face it, when archery is low (and especially at the middle level) it's going to take a lot of arrows/projectiles to bring something down.

[Molten Heart]

A bonus to outdoor stamina regen rate would do the trick, I think.

I think it'd be cool if rangers could regenerate stamina while standing.

[roughneck]

A bonus to outdoor stamina regen rate would do the trick, I think.

I think it'd be cool if rangers could regenerate stamina while standing.

Or hide while resting!

[Patuk]

Rangers are the last class that needs more things, imo.