Tuluk Closing to PC play -- discussion thread

[Armaddict]

One of the options I'd like to see for Luir's is the addition of apartments and warehouses. This would allow for indie orgs to really thrive there and create a lot more color. Granted, the indie orgs would have to not be competing with Kurac. Is such a thing possible, soon-to-be indie admin?

Luir's will need development.  In particular, the -money- flow through there has to be huge, for it to act as the 'main hub' for the huge swathe that is the northlands.  Really, everyone who 'lives' in the north should make their daily interactions in whatever small areas they can, but the 'trip to Luir's' should be a big deal...which doesn't work if the npc shopkeepers are constantly out of money.

Some apartments will be needed, though honestly...they're going to be warehouses in almost every case.  I don't think many people will -live- in Luir's, still, but I'd hope to see increased traffic of tribals, indies, hunters, and convicts.  So a bit of design that makes them suitable as both would be nice, without the need for the giant run around for a real warehouse (which should still be available there).

Basically, I am +1ing you and hoping Luir's is being noticed for what it should become.  Which is...what it's always been, but underplayed as such.

[Zoan]

First Richie Benaud and now Tuluk dying? MY MONTH HAS BEEN SO AWFUL!!!

[Malken]

One of the options I'd like to see for Luir's is the addition of apartments and warehouses. This would allow for indie orgs to really thrive there and create a lot more color. Granted, the indie orgs would have to not be competing with Kurac. Is such a thing possible, soon-to-be indie admin?

Luir's will need development.  In particular, the -money- flow through there has to be huge, for it to act as the 'main hub' for the huge swathe that is the northlands.  Really, everyone who 'lives' in the north should make their daily interactions in whatever small areas they can, but the 'trip to Luir's' should be a big deal...which doesn't work if the npc shopkeepers are constantly out of money.

Some apartments will be needed, though honestly...they're going to be warehouses in almost every case.  I don't think many people will -live- in Luir's, still, but I'd hope to see increased traffic of tribals, indies, hunters, and convicts.  So a bit of design that makes them suitable as both would be nice, without the need for the giant run around for a real warehouse (which should still be available there).

Basically, I am +1ing you and hoping Luir's is being noticed for what it should become.  Which is...what it's always been, but underplayed as such.

Why would there suddenly be place for apartments when we've been told for years that it's an impossibility due to space limit and very IC reasons?

[absurdist]

Why would Tuluk close after so many rl years? Because things change.

[Delirium]

One of the options I'd like to see for Luir's is the addition of apartments and warehouses. This would allow for indie orgs to really thrive there and create a lot more color. Granted, the indie orgs would have to not be competing with Kurac. Is such a thing possible, soon-to-be indie admin?

Luir's will need development.  In particular, the -money- flow through there has to be huge, for it to act as the 'main hub' for the huge swathe that is the northlands.  Really, everyone who 'lives' in the north should make their daily interactions in whatever small areas they can, but the 'trip to Luir's' should be a big deal...which doesn't work if the npc shopkeepers are constantly out of money.

Some apartments will be needed, though honestly...they're going to be warehouses in almost every case.  I don't think many people will -live- in Luir's, still, but I'd hope to see increased traffic of tribals, indies, hunters, and convicts.  So a bit of design that makes them suitable as both would be nice, without the need for the giant run around for a real warehouse (which should still be available there).

Basically, I am +1ing you and hoping Luir's is being noticed for what it should become.  Which is...what it's always been, but underplayed as such.

Why would there suddenly be place for apartments when we've been told for years that it's an impossibility due to space limit and very IC reasons?

They don't have to be traditional apartments. For example, they could be tiny shacks or rented tents in the bailey, or rooms above the Storm's End.

Inside a blue-and-green striped tent [N Leave]

The scruffy, dark-skinned man says, in tribal-accented sirihish:
     "Sure, I'll let you stay here. That'll be 500 a month."

[wizturbo]

One of the options I'd like to see for Luir's is the addition of apartments and warehouses. This would allow for indie orgs to really thrive there and create a lot more color. Granted, the indie orgs would have to not be competing with Kurac. Is such a thing possible, soon-to-be indie admin?

I'd love to see expensive, small apartments/tents/hovels available in Luirs, and perhaps one or two merchant tents available for PC's to occupy in their trading bazaar by paying Kurac an annual fee.  Basically, equivalent to the "NPC merchant/hawker" level of the city indie org structure.  I don't think anything past that level makes sense for Luirs.

[Is Friday]

One of the options I'd like to see for Luir's is the addition of apartments and warehouses. This would allow for indie orgs to really thrive there and create a lot more color. Granted, the indie orgs would have to not be competing with Kurac. Is such a thing possible, soon-to-be indie admin?

Luir's will need development.  In particular, the -money- flow through there has to be huge, for it to act as the 'main hub' for the huge swathe that is the northlands.  Really, everyone who 'lives' in the north should make their daily interactions in whatever small areas they can, but the 'trip to Luir's' should be a big deal...which doesn't work if the npc shopkeepers are constantly out of money.

Some apartments will be needed, though honestly...they're going to be warehouses in almost every case.  I don't think many people will -live- in Luir's, still, but I'd hope to see increased traffic of tribals, indies, hunters, and convicts.  So a bit of design that makes them suitable as both would be nice, without the need for the giant run around for a real warehouse (which should still be available there).

Basically, I am +1ing you and hoping Luir's is being noticed for what it should become.  Which is...what it's always been, but underplayed as such.

Why would there suddenly be place for apartments when we've been told for years that it's an impossibility due to space limit and very IC reasons?

For playability.

[RogueGunslinger]

I can honestly say I've never understood the player-bases love and desire for apartments.

I can also honestly say I don't think we'll need more housing. Why? Storage and housing is a very OOC desire that I think people should start getting over. A large portion of the apartments being used already are empty and hardly ever visited. They're like places PC's only ever go to to fuck or to spar. Now, sure, a few people use them for storage. And those are usually the Indie merchant's/hunters who actually NEED storage. But those sorts are very few and far between, and are generally so long lived they never have trouble eventually finding an apartment.

Also a potential to conflict arises when you need an apartment and have to find a way to force someone who's already in there out.

Apartments should be the ultimate luxury in Zalanthas. The point where you know your character has stopped struggling to live and feed themselves. Instead they'd full of... God I don't even know how to describe it. You go into three different apartments; One will have 4 strips of chalton hide and some piles of bone lengths, another will have 3 empty shot-glasses in the shelves, and the third would be full of charred, burnt pieces of meat, and that's it... All you can wonder is "Why are these people paying for this?"

[BadSkeelz]

The solution to all the apartments being rented out are more murderous burglars. Murdglars.

[wizturbo]

I can honestly say I've never understood the player-bases love and desire for apartments.

I can also honestly say I don't think we'll need more housing. Why? Storage and housing is a very OOC desire that I think people should start getting over. A large portion of the apartments being used already are empty and hardly ever visited. They're like places PC's only ever go to to fuck or to spar.

Players go there when they want privacy for any reason.  The two you listed, as well as private conversations, domestic role play, secret arcane rituals, murder, or just to set up a little chunk of Zalanthas that your character can call home.  There's absolutely no reason to prevent players from having this.  It isn't a luxury to have a hovel your character sleeps in every night.  Shelter is generally considered a basic human need.  

[RogueGunslinger]

I can honestly say I've never understood the player-bases love and desire for apartments.

I can also honestly say I don't think we'll need more housing. Why? Storage and housing is a very OOC desire that I think people should start getting over. A large portion of the apartments being used already are empty and hardly ever visited. They're like places PC's only ever go to to fuck or to spar.

Players go there when they want privacy for any reason.  The two you listed, as well as private conversations, domestic role play, secret arcane rituals, murder, or just to set up a little chunk of Zalanthas that your character can call home.  There's absolutely no reason to prevent players from having this.  It isn't a luxury to have a hovel your character sleeps in every night.  Shelter is generally considered a basic human need.  

It's a luxury by Zalanthan standards. Realistically most commoners would be living in communal areas with very little privacy and no place to store things safely. All I see is a bunch of OOC reasons people want apartments, but not IC reasons people should have them. I feel there's already more than enough out there for an enterprising player who really wants one, and I don't think that will change much with removing Tuluk, because currently most apartments aren't used by people who NEED them, but people who want them to store their 5 burned chunks of meat. It's an OOC want over an IC need.

We don't need an apartment for every player, or even every other player. I like that there's a finite amount of them because it creates conflict if you NEED an apartment.

I think what would be more realistic is if there were guarded sleeping areas that didn't allow you free reign over a sleeping person, to subdue or steal from them as you please.

[KankWhisperer]

Lots of stuff isn't realistic. Let people err on the side of fun once in a while.

[Eyeball]

It's a luxury by Zalanthan standards.

Nope, disagree. There are a few beggars scattered around Allanak, but you don't see street after street filled with the homeless. It's not described that way. Even the beggars may have homes to go to. They're a bunch of crappy mud-brick hovels with ceilings falling in, but they're homes.

[nauta]

The other OOC nice thing about apartments is they provide a location (there are others) to carry out a scene without too much of a worry about some random person walking in on it and breaking the scene up.

[KankWhisperer]

What's the harm in it?

[wizturbo]

People should keep in mind that commoners are effectively the middle class of Allanaki society.  This is especially true of PC commoners, who tend to get the better jobs because those are fun.  The majority of the city's population are slaves, they're the ones who sleep in communal living arrangements as a rule.  A large portion of the commoners work for the military, GMH, or noble families.  The remainder are probably indie merchants, mercenaries, whores, criminals, etc.  All of these jobs have incomes that can support a cheap apartment.

[Lizzie]

Having shelter assigned to you is believable. Having your own private shelter, that you don't have to share with anyone, where you can store your possessions and amass "stuff" should be a luxury.

To that end I'd be fine with limited-capacity bunkhouses. Sort of a reverse of the current situation, where you -can- have a room-mate share the rent if you want to. In this case, you would share it whether you want to or not, with up to "x" number of people depending on the size of the place. If you don't like your roomie you could a) learn to get along, b) kill them c) move elsewhere.

Bunkhouses could be further limited - half-giants only, dwarves only, GMH employees only, anyone -except- elves, anyone -except- gemmers, etc. etc. Could limit it pretty much any way the staff wants.

[Patuk]

I don't feel very strongly on more/less apartments being needed, but I do think the amount of people allowed to rent in the same building could be higher. People living cramped together in their apartments is common in real life poorer areas, and ancient cities were no different.

[RogueGunslinger]

It's a luxury by Zalanthan standards.

Nope, disagree. There are a few beggars scattered around Allanak, but you don't see street after street filled with the homeless. It's not described that way. Even the beggars may have homes to go to. They're a bunch of crappy mud-brick hovels with ceilings falling in, but they're homes.

Average citizens are not living in apartments with 24/7 guards at the front and locking doors. I'd contend there are TONS of beggars living on the street. Much like there are people living on the street in real life.

[Barzalene]

I think what would be more realistic is if there were guarded sleeping areas that didn't allow you free reign over a sleeping person, to subdue or steal from them as you please.

For a price.

[valeria]

I just don't like there being only one area in the game where I can play a PC that can have a place of their own.  If you think Red Storm apartments were hard to come by before...  Also,  even if you're playing in a different clan,  you'll still run into a lot of the same people if you're playing in the same city.  That's one of the reasons this change feels so limiting to me.

[slvrmoontiger]

I really haven't had the time to read but just under half the posts. This post was started yesterday and it's already at 15 pages and I don't know who has the time to read this. I put most of my "free" time into playing and I have lost a lot of that by reading this thread. Having said that I just wanted to voice some thoughts on this.

1) I am deeply saddened. As a player that hasn't really ever felt at home anywhere but Tuluk until my current character, which I'm enjoying immensely and love the RP that that PC has been getting involved with. I was seriously planning my next character as a return to Tuluk as I haven't had a Tuluki character in a while now.
2) I feel as though my options are getting cut off. I've been told several times that I should play characters in the same place back to back and now my options are seriously running out. I know where I'm at I couldn't possibly play another character back-to-back in that place. Being a player that absolutely HATES playing in Allanak and I have tried. I played on there when Tuluk was closed during the occupation to all but special roles and I hated it. My last character played in Allanak and I hated it so much that I forced myself to store that character, because I just couldn't get into playing there. I'm not one to stored characters on my own. In fact that was the 1st character current character I had ever stored. The one before that I stored I had been away for 5 RL years and just didn't see playing the character as a reality.
3) I feel for all the players that have current Tuluki PC's. Even ones that are going to keep their characters, finding a home will be very difficult. Limitation caps on GMH's are probably close to full. If the reasoning behind this is because of some win of the war with Allanak, even Tuluki's in a GMH will be even more criticized and hated in Allanak. If they decide to go to Luir's, which is really the only alternative for them there are no apartments there so they would either have to join Kurac (if there are any openings) or have no where for their belongings. This is going to have a huge impact on indy Tuluki merchants. I just feel really sorry for all these players that have probably put a lot of hard work, determination, love, and possibly even tears into their characters.
4) I know I've been rambling on and venting. Unlike most I'm not surprised by this happening, I really thought this was coming to pass. I am in shock and I'm saddened by this as the city that I loved and as a player always called home will no longer be home to me.

What considerations are staff putting into place for players that simply do not like playing in Allanak? Luir's is dead most of the time and I suspect with Tuluk closing it's going to become a greater out-of-the-way place for players to play in, Red Storm has it's up and down times but for the most part is usually dead. Tuluk was special (albiet it has gotten underpopulated and PC noble/templar top heavy) and the atmosphere and the culture were truly something I enjoyed playing and knew quite well. Most tribal locations don't see much population either. I'm not sure how many people out there are willing to play in Allanak and how many hate it to the point where they won't play there. I suspect I'm a rarity in the case of never getting to mesh a character there. But for the very few of us that don't like it, what will there be for us to play when it comes time to pick something?

[Marauder Moe]

If you don't like playing in Allanak, or the 'Rinth, or Luir's, or Red Storm, or human tribes, or elven tribes, and are absolutely unwilling to give any of those options another try... well... I don't know what sort of answer you're expecting.

[slvrmoontiger]

Some of the options you listed might be options I'm already playing. If staff expect you to not play in the same area twice then what I am currently playing isn't available on my next go around. I'm just wondering what options or changes might be put into place to give something more Tuluki and less Allanaki. Also, like I said I'm just saddened and hurt by this. I'm sure I'll find something to do. I just cannot find a way of meshing Allanak, I don't care for it. The other places are options when available. Allanak never has been any fun for me.

I love my current PC and where I am right now. Like I said I'm having a lot of fun and experiencing a lot of new things. I'm just wondering what will be available when this character is no more.

[Marauder Moe]

I feel like if you gave it an honest chance you might find that Allanaki high society isn't really that alien to what you're comfortable with in Tuluk.