Bardic Performances

[Desertman]

I don't think I've ever been to a northern bardic show that was actually entertaining on an OOC level in terms of performances.

Granted, I haven't been to all of them, but several of them. They are entertaining on an IC level, but on an OOC level, I just kind of hope they are over soon so I can stop roleplaying my character enjoying them.

They have always felt like a chore to me to have to sit through them behind my keyboard.

Allanak is the sort of place where bardic types can exist, they just aren't obligatorily "enjoyed". If you aren't entertaining in Allanak, you don't have any clout by being a "bard" with an associated culture of respected "rank". People don't have to pretend to enjoy your crap. If you are shitty bard...they tell you so. I like that.

[Nyr]

I don't think I've ever been to a northern bardic show that was actually entertaining on an OOC level in terms of performances.

Granted, I haven't been to all of them, but several of them. They are entertaining on an IC level, but on an OOC level, I just kind of hope they are over soon so I can stop roleplaying my character enjoying them.

They have always felt like a chore to me to have to sit through them behind my keyboard.

Somewhat of a tangent, but...on one level it is admirable that you would go to several events that you don't like (as a player), while playing a PC that likes it, roleplaying through it.  On another, I'd think it would be easier to roleplay closer to your own feelings on the matter, as it isn't against the documentation to dislike someone's performance IC.  If your issues are how they are presented and played on an OOC level, then you can still play a PC that doesn't get or understand music or performance or theater, go to the event, and roleplay THAT instead.  Or roleplay someone that is hilariously BAD at interpreting or understanding the subtleties of performance.  This is a game you are playing, after all, and if you aren't having fun, make a game out of something that would provide fun for you within the context of the world. 

Intently watch the performance, nodding slowly, then say softly, "So...when the bard gave a glance over to that noble, while singing about the 'kryl tax.'  Yes, I've got it.  Her noble is that Lyksaen Lady, right?  No, hear me out--kryl tax sounds like silk packs.  Right?  So...She's going to get a silk pack at the end of the performance, full of coin.  You mark my words."  Nod sagely and mention it to your tablemates.  When they express incredulity, continue to do this.  They'll want to play with you because of your own interpretations of the event--not just them, but everyone in the room that overhears you.   It doesn't have to be high-brow, it doesn't have to be intelligent, it just has to be funny and IC and entertaining to you, and said at the right place and time. You're wrong, of course, but you would be (hopefully) enjoying yourself, because you're the local comic relief.  That would be way more fun for me as a player, at least, even if I were the one performing--because I would want to hear how you misinterpret my next piece.

Your mileage may vary.

[Desertman]

I guess my problem is generally I only show up with characters who would enjoy Tuluki bardic music heh. I don't think I've shown up to many bardic shows with characters who wouldn't enjoy going.

Now, I'm at a bardic show full of emotes like....

"Obviously the product of years of practice the ivory-skinned bard girl strums her mandolin talentedly, sending forth pleasing notes into the crowd."

With a character who would appreciate said music. So....I suffer through it because it is IC'ly what should be done while my character comments on how fantastic her lyrics and music are.......when they really aren't.

Maybe I'll try showing up with that guy who doesn't belong there just to heckle. I can see that being very entertaining.  

[Rathustra]

We're still working on the Rock Band plugin for MUSHclient. Once we've sorted that out we should have a much better bardic experience.

[Barzalene]

I hate the whole bardic thing but I don't want to hurt players' feelings. (I don't like spinach. Its not your recipe. Its the spinach. )

But there are also IC ramifications of alienating characters because you extend your bias to your PC. You're kind of obligated to endure it.

Instead if playing closer to my feelings I turn on the TV.

[Patuk]

Bard shows are Armageddon's family dinners, obviously.

[Desertman]

I hate the whole bardic thing but I don't want to hurt players' feelings. (I don't like spinach. Its not your recipe. Its the spinach. )

But there are also IC ramifications of alienating characters because you extend your bias to your PC. You're kind of obligated to endure it.

Instead if playing closer to my feelings I turn on the TV.

The real issue I have is if I roleplay not appreciating this ranked bard's talents I am now the social pariah who obviously can't appreciate the finer things of Tuluki society.

I am the problem. Their performance was fantastic. They are Circle-trained and extremely talented! I just don't get it and I'm not truly Tuluki! Blah blah blah.

Sometimes I just want to say, "Alright everyone, how did this guy/girl ever even get to this rank in this Circle? Has anyone ever even enjoyed a single performance they have put on or are we all just assuming we would because they are Circle trained and so we go with that? This is the fifth time I've seen them perform, and I have to say....damn, standards are low for promotion.".

I did see a Lirathan more or less publically shame a bardic performance put on by a ranked Circle-trained bard for it being one of the worst ones I have ever seen (which may have been on purpose). Shamed her right to her face in front of the entire crowd. I was playing a half-giant at the time, and it was the only time I've been able to really truly express my thoughts at a bardic event without facing repercussions. It was golden. I laughed a fair bit.

[Barzalene]

That's what meant Dman.

[Nyr]

Now, I'm at a bardic show full of emotes like....

"Obviously the product of years of practice the ivory-skinned bard girl strums her mandolin talentedly, sending forth pleasing notes into the crowd."

The real issue I have is if I roleplay not appreciating this ranked bard's talents I am now the social pariah who obviously can't appreciate the finer things of Tuluki society.

I am the problem. Their performance was fantastic. They are Circle-trained and extremely talented! I just don't get it and I'm not truly Tuluk! Blah blah blah.

I don't think you're the problem here, unless it is your assumption that this is what bardic performance should be in this game (no, not Tuluk, not Allanak, the whole thing).  I think we'd benefit from a constructive thread detailing what makes for an entertaining performance and what makes for an annoying and borderline "badly roleplayed" (or at least cringe-inducing) performance, and making that a collaboration document (eventually) for bards in any venue to use as a resource.  If interested in discussing, I would be more than happy to split off the necessary posts into their own thread.  Let me know.

[Desertman]

That seems like a good idea. 

[Barzalene]

I don't like any of it. Good or bad. Good would be in places people have to to see the performance, rather than random in bars or places people were before the performance began.
Also, short.

[nauta]

Not to continue the derail, but (a) I love bardic events, and (b) I agree they can be boring OOCly but they don't have to be.  They have to be done right - I've had terribly boring OOC experiences with songs (which is why I think it's funny we have the switch to turn songs off!) but I've had some really good ones too.  

There was a recent one that was pretty amazing, and it helps if the audience gets involved.  I think there's room for the naive commoner to really get into the performance, by ooing and awing and not really remembering the fourth wall, even if you can't insult the performance directly or - disappeared.

[Rathustra]

Here's a handy template for spectating in bardic events:

[Reiloth]

As far as bardic performances go---

During the Golden Era of 2006 Tuluk, I think there was a very good cadre of bards around. Holten Irofel, Methyas Groot, Mae Konviwedu, Jochebed Elkinhym, Bebecim Groot, and so on. The dynamic between them was excellent, because they were all of different ranks, but also different experiences, and experience levels, and they made that clear through their RP.

What I see a lot of now (perhaps because there isn't a guide or collaborative piece that helps bards, which I think is a great idea) is Apprentices, either right out of the box after Apping in, or before/during an audition, SHREDDING on their instruments. Just absolute MONSTERS on their instruments, via emotes. They don't make mistakes, they don't blunder through a chorus, they don't get nervous and forget words. It's just an AMAZING performance. And that leaves a lot to be desired.

My only advice to Bards/Bard PCs is to start at the bottom. Don't be excellent, just out of the gates. RP your journey through music and learning one instrument at a time, at the same painfully slow pace that learning a combat skill would take. Perform -- and fail, right when it matters. It provides such a depth of RP to your PC that being a virtuoso just glides past.

I think bardic performances would be a lot more enjoyable if people performing took this into account.

[Nyr]

Moving over the derailed discussion from another thread.  Just a moment.

[Quell]

I've always been of the opinion that in a roleplaying game the fact someone is playing music should be considered the backdrop, with the real meat of the event being what is going on around and with the performer while they're playing. With that said, performances that involve the audience somehow are going to tend to be more fun OOCly than performances that just set someone far off on stage to do their thing by themselves as if the audience was watching them on TV.

Some things a performer might do to keep the player audience entertained:

*Take a moment to look up and glare at a heckler. If no one's heckling, you can use a VNPC.
*Toss a token out to the crowd at the end of the performance, maybe your guitar pick, maybe your shirt. Depends on the sort of performance.
*Instead of performing music for a seated audience, make it music to dance to!
*Smile to, wink at, sing to, or shake it at specific named members of the audience.
*Save an emote or two to bring alive the VNPCs of the crowd. Don't Mary Sue this by talking about how much the VNPCs love your performance, make them do some interesting things. Maybe even be your own heckler?
*Hire bouncers to harass "troublemakers" in the crowd.

I think if people keep in mind that the music is in fact just the backdrop to the scene, and not the scene itself, these could be a lot more interesting.

[nauta]

To contribute, because why not: Often the problem seems to be that bardic events involve a LOAD of PCs in the room, and so there's the "spam talking" problem.  I know I always go passive when I get in big crowds, resorting to feels and thinks and hemotes, for fear of being shown up as a bad RPer. Dividing up into tables is good, and the Tuluki tearoom is really good for this.

[Marauder Moe]

So when I played in Poet's Circle for a little while () the staff heavily encouraged us to to pre-compose our performances so that we could just cut and paste them into the client command bar.  I think this helps a lot.

Indeed, written descriptions of music are not only HARD, but even when done well are BORING.  No one ever transcribes famous melodies into English, after all.  So much of music is literally indescribable.

I tried to spend a lot more time making the lyrics interesting than the emotes about performance.  I never composed a song, it was always a poem, a story, and/or a joke.  Something that could be appreciated separately from any music.

Audience interaction is also a good idea when you can fit it in, as is making the performance emotes more about your character rather than about their music.

/rambling

[Nyr]

This can probably be simplified or expounded on, but I can identify about four types of bardic events.

• 1. Event focused around bardic performance -- regardless of city, this is an event where you'll have multiple bards performing.
• 2. Event in which bardic performance is a feature, but not a focus -- the event is something else, but you have a bard or bards or bardic wannabes assisting.
• 3. Event in which bards perform as a background artist -- the event has nothing to do with the bard, they are the background music guy/gal.
• 4. Impromptu performance by a bard -- regardless of locale, someone has a song they want to share.

Bardic performers (whether they are official or unofficial) need to be on the same page with everyone else.  Your role is entertainment, sure, but entertainment for whom?  It goes without saying that you should be enjoying this yourself, but you should also be aiming to provide enjoyment for others (players and staff).  What helps in this?

Brevity.  You are performing in a text-based venue.  We cannot hear how you sound; describe it, please--but do not take a long time to do that.  This often means writing out the text of your performance in advance, and then pasting it in, with a few key asides that you can change during a performance if warranted.  Leave space for people to read and react.  Typically, if your performance for one song lasts longer than ten minutes of real-life time, you are taking too long.

Understanding textual limitations. You can describe how well you are playing, but if your performance is an instrumental piece, this is potentially the most boring thing to observe, ever.  There's no wordplay, no puns, no humor, no real chance for audience participation or engagement in terms of IC or OOC. There's not even a poem or story for everyone to read at the same time and at the same pace--it's just you wanking about on guitar.  It works in real life if you're good; it does not work in-game.  If you're emoting a skillful performance and nothing else, then it reads like power-emotes from a solo roleplayer--no one can challenge how good you are because you're telling everyone how good you are with your emotes that they can't otherwise fault.

Exception:  when your performance is meant to be bad, or funny, and provokes amusement in some way--that's more okay!

Lyrics, on the other hand, are where you can communicate lots of things.  Humor, jokes, wordplay, even just well-constructed poems (if you're into that sort of thing, and hopefully at least decent at it).

Understanding your audience and event.  If this is Lord Hob-Nob's party and he asked you to do something for it, clarify what you are doing.  This goes for Lord Hob-Nob, too!  See the first two points:  brevity and textual limitations.

Suggestions for what you might do as an audience member:

• Find a way to enjoy yourself, even if you are not entertained overly much.  Your PC has an opinion about performances, or at least about people.  Act on it!
• While enjoying yourself, do not make yourself the main attraction of roleplay.  Understand that you are a part the OOC performance for all players and staff watching, but your PC is not the main attraction of the event or IC performance.
• The higher-ranking you are, the more cognizant you have to be about what you do.  Every word, thought, or feeling you display (or act upon) can serve to change and manipulate the performance, either disrupting it entirely or creating whole subplots of drama related to what you do.  I am not saying "don't react", more the opposite.  I am saying that it really helps to be aware of this--don't be oblivious to your effect on the roleplay ambience of the room.

[BadSkeelz]

Eh, I think I'll just skip the whole Bard thing and keep working on my combat emotes.

[bcw81]

I guess my problem is generally I only show up with characters who would enjoy Tuluki bardic music heh. I don't think I've shown up to many bardic shows with characters who wouldn't enjoy going.

Now, I'm at a bardic show full of emotes like....

"Obviously the product of years of practice the ivory-skinned bard girl strums her mandolin talentedly, sending forth pleasing notes into the crowd."

With a character who would appreciate said music. So....I suffer through it because it is IC'ly what should be done while my character comments on how fantastic her lyrics and music are.......when they really aren't.

Maybe I'll try showing up with that guy who doesn't belong there just to heckle. I can see that being very entertaining.  

Like what Moe said, it's pretty fucking hard to describe music with the English language. You also have the type who go all out describing just how their pitch is and their tone and their stumming and their everything. "The ivory tressed, tressy-ivory-skinned woman with red-striped-tresses strums the mandolin in a false staccato, vibrating the strings with all the falsetto of a musicwordhere."

I personally always look back to the Night Angels Triliogy when I write a song IG. There was one chapter, in I think the second book, where it talked about Aristarchos ban Ebron the bard and described how he could sing. It didn't use complicated music terms to describe how he sang, it didn't throw in the towel and just say he sang wonderfully. It used metaphor to describe how his music was just -so- perfect. It's been one of the literary works of music that I have actually enjoyed.

In all my years of playing arm, most of them in Tuluk, a lot of the performances are lackluster. Boring. They don't draw you in, they try to put an air of superiority on the signer. That shouldn't be. You aren't playing this game to win, you're playing to make it fun for everyone. (Including yourself, but still, don't try to win.)

Basically what I'm trying to say is bards - Simplify without making it simple. Use everyone around you, and don't just prance around for yourselves.

[Barzalene]

I don't like the poetry either. Its very good. The effort is admirable. We have very talented people. I would still like to opt out.

[Quell]

I don't like the poetry either. Its very good. The effort is admirable. We have very talented people. I would still like to opt out.

How much don't you like it?

If Templars decide to use a bard during an interrogation of your character, would they need consent?

[Quell]

One of these days I'm going to play a bard that asks "consent for torture?" before every performance.

[Malken]

I like the idea of having to skype your Guitar Hero performance live during a bardic RPT, just like I'd rather if all in-game fighting were now done via Mount & Blade.