Eat the Rich

[CodeMaster]

Didn't want to derail...

Actually, adding scripts to those NPC's to indicate why they're so bloodthirsty probably wouldn't be a bad idea. Because it's not readily apparent to someone who's spending their first time in the 'rinth.

The [thug] eyes your gear with a greedy look.

Or something.

The eat-the-rich 'rinth code strikes me as mildly problematic:

(1) it gives powerful-enough PCs an excuse to throw on an expensive suit of armor and "spar" NPC after NPC while claiming self defense.  This kind of behavior is exploitative of the fact that these NPCs cannot learn to avoid you, and do not have the faculties to organize larger-scale assaults (so you conveniently get the "same" fight every time).  ICly, they should be regarded as sentient beings.  But I digress - this isn't roleplaying discussion!

(2) it's opaque, insofar as newbies might not understand the helmet they found abandoned in the alleys (hey, nobody around here wants it!) can suddenly draw deadly attention.

Solving these problems, from a player's perspective, is what I would like to address in this thread.  To start, I think (1) and (2) could be addressed simultaneously: instead of more and deadlier NPCs that rely on the combat code, add more benign NPCs and room echoes that are scripted to taunt the rich, to draw attention to the fact that they are out of place:

Code Select Expand


A small child eyes you hungrily from the darkness, apparently drawn by the relatively high value of your belongings.
A small child says, in rinthi-accented sirihish:
   "Please, I'm so hungry..."

The short figure in a dark, hooded cloak panics, and attempts to flee.
The short figure in a dark, hooded cloak runs east.
You hear a woman's voice shout from the east, in rinthi-accented sirihish:
   "Rich man, rich man!"

The short figure in a dark, hooded cloak asks, in rinthi-accented sirihish:
   "Ye look well off, sir... spare a few coins?"

A rock is thrown from an overhead rooftop, hitting you. [lose 5 to 10 hp]

A sack of refuse is thrown from an overhead rooftop, breaking apart on you. [+gear smelly]
You hear derisive giggling from the rooftops above, elusive figures fading from view.

The tall figure in a dark, hooded cloak asks, in rinthi-accented sirihish:
   "Ye well-to-do be well advised to make a donation to my crew... how 'bout that bone helmet?"


[deathkamon]

I dig this hard. It just sucks that there's always the Hathor's Crew surrounding you and beating the crap out of you and stealing everything off of you as soon as you go in with something of value.

[HavokBlue]

It's okay because if you go in without something of value there's still a 50/50 chance someone is going to walk into the room and sap and/or backstab you with a poisoned short spear before they even look at you.

[CodeMaster]

It's okay because if you go in without something of value there's still a 50/50 chance someone is going to walk into the room and sap and/or backstab you with a poisoned short spear before they even look at you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn1CLQ6B7qE

[Saellyn]

By that same token that reasonably lived PC could do that and suddenly find himself fighting -several- people who are more than capable of stomping his ass into the dirt in record time. I've seen it happen. The rinth isn't a place you just -fuck around- because not everything is as you see it in that place. It's super dangerous for risk takers.

[nauta]

I love the suggestions, each and every one!

As to your points:

(1) PCs in the rinth (and also staff, I imagine) watch out for this sort of misbehaving and its fun to play out the IG consequences, both against the aggressor and in terms of the fact that it supplies the little rats with interesting things to scavenge.  Big stuff smashing things up in the rinth is scary and neat.  Of course, twinking is lame, but IMHO twinks often get caught.

(2) I admit to being ganked a few times by the NPCs, but newbies in the rinth, as with any area, are best advised to find out IG how to survive, either through trial and (deadly) error, or, more easily, by finding a PC who'll mentor them, provided they aren't turds.  Also there's this: http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Labyrinth%20Details Especially this: "Thinking, dressing and acting like a 'rinther will greatly help you in this regard."  You can survive a long time in the rinth simply by not being a turd.

I should add: It would be nice to see more / different NPCs and more NPC movement, but I don't see the rinth as that much more "stable" than the wilderness.

Finally: The rinth is awesome, and its totally safe.  Come, southsiders, come into the narrows.  We love you.

[Inks]

Edit: Actually changed my mind on liking this idea. Really keen on more NPCs though.

It's unlikely what Havok said will actually happen. I am sure he was just being facetious.

I am worried that it is a completely non risky way to test what is rinth compatible.

[Reiloth]

I like the way the Rinth works now with 'eat the rich' code in place.

If anything, i'd prefer more NPCs coming out to loot your corpse they just made.

Child gangs would be cool, too.

[CodeMaster]

I like the way the Rinth works now with 'eat the rich' code in place.

If anything, i'd prefer more NPCs coming out to loot your corpse they just made.

Child gangs would be cool, too.

Yeah!  I agree with both of the preceding posters that the existing eat-the-rich code should stay in place.  There should certainly still be guys waiting on corners to mug you, and  I would even agree with things being made more deadly (with more NPCs, more gangs, etc).

I guess my goal is to suggest that the NPC reactions could benefit from being more nuanced and less binary (i.e., one of "attack/ignore") using -- hopefully -- some relatively simple scripts that would still impede and draw attention to the filthy rich, while also forcing them to roleplay out some of the less glamorous parts of being the ostentatious rich guy in a poor slum (i.e., beyond just beating the shit out of people).

I'll also add here that I feel like I sounded accusatory regarding point (1) in the root post... one should fully expect fights and even murders to be common.

[Harmless]

these are cool ideas that would help. some kind of script to summon thugs on you similar to soldier summoning scripts might be good but obviously with much less potency.. mayhe something that lingers on you similar to crimcode after a trigger.

[Reiloth]

It'd be cool if there were a reputation modifier for people who are not from the Labyrinth, which can be increased by not attacking people in the 'Rinth, selling things to their merchants, and buying things from their merchants, including drinks at the bar. Paying customers are, after all, treated a little better than tourists who just come through and murder 'citizens of the alleys'.

Things like 'Rinth tattoos and certain merchants would be unavailable to non-rinthers, until their reputation hits a certain level. Reputation is fluid -- So if you happen to murder someone, even by accident, its a hit to your reputation.

[solera]

It'd be cool if there were a reputation modifier for people who are not from the Labyrinth, which can be increased by not attacking people in the 'Rinth, selling things to their merchants, and buying things from their merchants, including drinks at the bar. Paying customers are, after all, treated a little better than tourists who just come through and murder 'citizens of the alleys'.

Things like 'Rinth tattoos and certain merchants would be unavailable to non-rinthers, until their reputation hits a certain level. Reputation is fluid -- So if you happen to murder someone, even by accident, its a hit to your reputation.

Though I liked it that an area was codedly able to be used by all, but "policed" by PCs. Tattoos yes!

[Qzzrbl]

It'd be cool if there were a reputation modifier for people who are not from the Labyrinth, which can be increased by not attacking people in the 'Rinth, selling things to their merchants, and buying things from their merchants, including drinks at the bar. Paying customers are, after all, treated a little better than tourists who just come through and murder 'citizens of the alleys'.

Things like 'Rinth tattoos and certain merchants would be unavailable to non-rinthers, until their reputation hits a certain level. Reputation is fluid -- So if you happen to murder someone, even by accident, its a hit to your reputation.

Everything about this?

Yes.

Though I don't think there should ever exist a point to where one would get away with wearing anything above poor people junk.

Even a Guilder should have to watch his back wearing silk in the alleys.

[Inks]

I love the fact that the Rinth is policed by PCs. Mess around enough and you will get found out.

Also eat the rich.

[Reiloth]

It'd be cool if there were a reputation modifier for people who are not from the Labyrinth, which can be increased by not attacking people in the 'Rinth, selling things to their merchants, and buying things from their merchants, including drinks at the bar. Paying customers are, after all, treated a little better than tourists who just come through and murder 'citizens of the alleys'.

Things like 'Rinth tattoos and certain merchants would be unavailable to non-rinthers, until their reputation hits a certain level. Reputation is fluid -- So if you happen to murder someone, even by accident, its a hit to your reputation.

Everything about this?

Yes.

Though I don't think there should ever exist a point to where one would get away with wearing anything above poor people junk.

Even a Guilder should have to watch his back wearing silk in the alleys.

Yeah, I always found it odd that Guilders would hit a certain point with sneak/hide and rank, and would just bling out. I mean, makes sense in a certain Mafia sort of way, but the Rinth isn't really 1940's New York.

[RogueGunslinger]

It makes perfect sense to me that the powerful and well connected would wear whatever the fuck they wanted in the 'rinth(I mean, the NPC's do). It no longer becomes a place where people live because they can't rub the 'sids together to get out, but the only safe haven left to stick around in where they won't be harassed by militia and templarate. These sort of PC's are generally making bank, and can no longer be considered common 'rinthers.

The alternative here would be them buying an apartment and staying southside, and I say fuck that. That makes even less sense, considering they're in complete control of Nenyuk and the whims of a templar.

^That didn't make any sense. The alternative would be to just wear what everyone else is wearing, and I do agree that makes sense. But I think it also makes sense that people would remember you, and know you, and avoid you once you became affiliated, and you'd no longer have to worry about that. Since there's no way for the code to represent that, you generally have to find ways to deal with those sorts of PC's. Sometimes that means sneaking around them. Sometimes that means running. Sometimes that means plowing right through them.

[maxid]

Seeing that one guy wearing clean silks, or just with a really nice dagger on his belt in the 'rinth is actually one of the most legit terrifying IC experiences you can have.  So I really don't want to take that away from high level guilders and True Badasses.

[Reiloth]

The unfortunate thing is -- A lot of 'rinthers do rent apartments Southside. Guilders especially -- A nice posh place they can use as their HQ, rather than the bar they own in the Labyrinth.

If I had my druthers, rinthers couldn't rent apartments in Allanak Proper, but had some sort of tenement/crap apartment situation in the 'Rinth. Door locks would be questionable at best, and storing your items there might as well stamp 'take me' on them, but it'd provide privacy and some safety. Like those crap apartments in the Warrens in Tuluk.

Also from an RP standpoint, it'd make sense that a lot of people are forced into squalor and shared living, while those with a little bit of money can afford a hovel and a door. The people who were forced to move to the Labyrinth from gambling addictions or spice probably wouldn't go from point A (Renting an apartment and having a family and being OK in the world) to F (Living on the street, getting near shanked every night). There would probably be a very tentative middle ground, tenement living, that they could justify to themselves 'it's not that bad, children'.

[nauta]

The unfortunate thing is -- A lot of 'rinthers do rent apartments Southside. Guilders especially -- A nice posh place they can use as their HQ, rather than the bar they own in the Labyrinth.

If I had my druthers, rinthers couldn't rent apartments in Allanak Proper, but had some sort of tenement/crap apartment situation in the 'Rinth. Door locks would be questionable at best, and storing your items there might as well stamp 'take me' on them, but it'd provide privacy and some safety. Like those crap apartments in the Warrens in Tuluk.

Also from an RP standpoint, it'd make sense that a lot of people are forced into squalor and shared living, while those with a little bit of money can afford a hovel and a door. The people who were forced to move to the Labyrinth from gambling addictions or spice probably wouldn't go from point A (Renting an apartment and having a family and being OK in the world) to F (Living on the street, getting near shanked every night). There would probably be a very tentative middle ground, tenement living, that they could justify to themselves 'it's not that bad, children'.

Totally agree.  Solution: More save/dig spots in the rinth?

[Reiloth]

The unfortunate thing is -- A lot of 'rinthers do rent apartments Southside. Guilders especially -- A nice posh place they can use as their HQ, rather than the bar they own in the Labyrinth.

If I had my druthers, rinthers couldn't rent apartments in Allanak Proper, but had some sort of tenement/crap apartment situation in the 'Rinth. Door locks would be questionable at best, and storing your items there might as well stamp 'take me' on them, but it'd provide privacy and some safety. Like those crap apartments in the Warrens in Tuluk.

Also from an RP standpoint, it'd make sense that a lot of people are forced into squalor and shared living, while those with a little bit of money can afford a hovel and a door. The people who were forced to move to the Labyrinth from gambling addictions or spice probably wouldn't go from point A (Renting an apartment and having a family and being OK in the world) to F (Living on the street, getting near shanked every night). There would probably be a very tentative middle ground, tenement living, that they could justify to themselves 'it's not that bad, children'.

Totally agree.  Solution: More save/dig spots in the rinth?

If there were an NPC that bought anything -- The Junk Yard Dealership -- I mean anything. Total crap, and they'll give you 2-5 sid for it -- And combine that with more forgeable spots, including for food and water for sub guild Scavenger -- Yay-yeah.

[Qzzrbl]

Seeing that one guy wearing clean silks, or just with a really nice dagger on his belt in the 'rinth is actually one of the most legit terrifying IC experiences you can have.  So I really don't want to take that away from high level guilders and True Badasses.

I dunno man.... It's terrifying in the sense of "oh jeeze this guy can kill me", which... Look around. "<Thing> can kill me!" is pretty much the jump scare of Zalanthas.  It's practically everywhere and gets old and cheesy after getting hit with it several thousand times over.

It makes perfect sense to me that the powerful and well connected would wear whatever the fuck they wanted in the 'rinth(I mean, the NPC's do). It no longer becomes a place where people live because they can't rub the 'sids together to get out, but the only safe haven left to stick around in where they won't be harassed by militia and templarate. These sort of PC's are generally making bank, and can no longer be considered common 'rinthers.

This is another thing that gets me sometimes.

Does it really make sense?

I mean, yeah, well-connected NPCs do it, but those usually aren't the NPCs out doing dirt and putting in work. They're the ones telling your well-connected and powerful PC what to do.

I've been thinking about PCs in The Labyrinth a lot lately, more than usual.

For instance, what makes a 'Rinther a 'Rinther?

Surely it isn't as simple as being broke all the time-- hell, more often than not, even the brokest of broke Allanaki commoner still avoids the place like the plague. People would literally rather starve, and dehydrate while begging in front of a giant stinking pile of corpses than step foot in the Labyrinth.

If all it amounts to is being dirt poor, every 'Rinther would just go southside and dig dung or greb salt like every other poor and destitute lowlife in Allanak, or maybe even scrape together a couple hundred coins to join the Byn for basically food and shelter for life. Helluva deal for three smalls.

It's more than that, I think.

It's being raised in a den of inequity, where the only person who's got your back is you, in an area even the mighty Arm of the Dragon can't tame. It's practically raising yourself on breadcrumbs and scraps of boiled rat because mommy and daddy are too spiced out to care. It's passing by that slowly decaying corpse on the side of the alley every day on your way to the local watering hole, stinking and attracting flies until either someone hungrier than you eats it, or until nothing remains but a few scattered bones. It's drinking cheap beer or wine from the bar because the idea of walking southside for water makes you uncomfortable. You don't like wide open spaces. It's trusting that east-side elf you just met over that round-eared southsider you just met when everything goes to hell in a handbasket, because that necker? He gets it. He's a local. He knows what's up. That southsider doesn't have a clue. It's being uncomfortable in fine clothes because you're just so damn used to that layer of grime, and that fluffy bed just isn't comfortable because it doesn't hurt your back just right. It doesn't matter how far up the food chain your are, 'Rinther trash is 'Rinther trash and there's no escaping it.

The alleys are like the wastelands far from civilization, respect it or get eaten alive.

It's home.

But that's just me being idealistic and opinionated coupled with my own take on docs. :p

[QuillDipper]

Welp. Now I'm itching to Rinthi.

[RogueGunslinger]

I like your take on it mostly, but it isn't really represented by the game world that way. It's not just the high ranking NPC's who have decent gear, as I'm sure you know because you modified your statement with a "usually".

I also agree the 'rinth isn't just about being poor. That's exactly why I think you can wear a decent set of stuff if you've got the clout, or friends to back it up. Don't get me wrong. I'm not talking about silks and silt-horror armor here(though, if your PC is eccentric or Mul enough, why not). I also don't think it should be the norm, it should be rare for a 'rinther to get it together long enough to buy a leather cap.  But function, not rotting/decrepit gear in the 'rinth, the sort of stuff that often gets you ganked by NPC's, is perfectly okay in certain circumstances.

I really can't fault players for wanting to look intimidating. Although, thinking about it... The most intimidating guy is always the dude wearing very little, with a bloodied cloak and bloodied facewrap.

Welp. Now I'm itching to Rinthi.

Yeah, gets me every time.

[Qzzrbl]

I like your take on it mostly, but it isn't really represented by the game world that way. It's not just the high ranking NPC's who have decent gear, as I'm sure you know because you modified your statement with a "usually".

I added that mostly because guards at shops and bars and stuff would get jumped if they took a stroll, but aside from the beefy humans, muls, and half-giants that pretty much stay put, I'd argue that it's represented by other NPCs quite well. The muggers and other folks breaking open a can of whoopass on the back of your skull are all about bare threads and cracked knives.

I also agree the 'rinth isn't just about being poor. That's exactly why I think you can wear a decent set of stuff if you've got the clout, or friends to back it up. Don't get me wrong. I'm not talking about silks and silt-horror armor here(though, if your PC is eccentric or Mul enough, why not). I also don't think it should be the norm, it should be rare for a 'rinther to get it together long enough to buy a leather cap.  But function, not rotting/decrepit gear in the 'rinth, the sort of stuff that often gets you ganked by NPC's, is perfectly okay in certain circumstances.

I agree.

If anything, I'd absolutely -love- to see more broken down and shoddy 'Rinth-made patchwork armor and gear in the alleys. Stuff that looks like it's falling apart, but still works and just all-around fits the theme of "all of our craftsmen are spiced out of their minds but we need stuff to make getting stabbed hurt less".

There's some currently in-game that fits this, but it's a bitch to figure out what's what and there's pretty much no variety at all.