A thought about storing characters

[Lizzie]

It's an idea, but it's more of an account-related idea, not a character-related idea, sort of. Regardless, it's not an idea about the game, it's a totally OOC idea, about an OOC aspect of the game. There's no category for that on the request tool, and I didn't think it really fit the "idea" command in game. So here's the idea - does anyone agree, disagree?

Quite a few times, I've wanted to store a mostly unimportant character, but was frustrated by the amount of time it can take to get the request resolved. I really LIKE playing Arm, so even if I don't like my character anymore, I still like entering the game. Submitting a new app can take up to 24 hours to get approved, and that's only AFTER the wait to request storage and get THAT approved, which can take several days.

I get that if you're playing a leadership role, a sponsored role, an "officer" role in a clan, a special app, or even a high-karma role, it's important for the staff to see the request and talk it over amongst themselves before granting the request. I also get that it's not likely you'd ever get rejected for this request - only that it might take awhile, and they might even try to see if there's something reasonable that can be done to change your mind.

But if I'm playing, say - unclanned, gemmed, vivaduan #973, who was a normal app, who has had less than 10 days played, who isn't anyone's "coded" boss and isn't anyone's "coded" aide...

wouldn't it be great if the game automatically stored me 24 hours after the submitted request, if a staffer couldn't get to it first?

What about the Red Storm burglar PC who gets stuck in a harsh sandstorm for 2 RL days after trying to walk to Allanak, who hasn't even had a chance to LOOK for a lockpick yet, let alone had a chance to actually rob anyone or get picked up by the Guild... it's like you know what, this was a really stupid idea. I want to just end this PC asap and move on to something more suitable to my playstyle.

Suiciding is frowned upon by the staff. And I get that. But honestly - sometimes, your character is _SO_ unimportant, SO insignificant, combined with being SO frustrating - that you really don't want to wait up to four, five, maybe even six RL days just because you happened to place your storage request 2 days before Thanksgiving and the entire "Unclanned" staff is travelling to their families for the holidays and won't be back til Tuesday (or similar).

Personally, I've only been that badly frustrated 3 or 4 times in total, in all the years I've played, and with all the characters I've stored. But even if I've been only that frustrated once - if everyone else has been *that* frustrated once - that's a whole lot of frustration combined.

What does anyone else think about an auto-store, with certain criteria needing to be met before the automated system kicked in? Any criteria would need to be coded criteria, otherwise an automated system wouldn't know whether or not the criteria has been met. Again - my idea of criteria would be:

No coded leadership role (recruiter, banker, etc)
Character is a less-than-five karma character
Less than 10 days played
Not presently in jail or flagged as "wanted"
Not a special application character (if this isn't a flag, maybe it should be)
Not a sponsored role character (if this isn't a flag, maybe it should be)

[Jherlen]

I kind of like this idea, but then I've only stored a character once in order to play something else. I don't see why the 10 days played rule is necessary, though? There are characters that could easily pass 10 days of playtime without being embroiled in plots, and then there are also characters that may have only been around 5 or even 1 or 0 days, but are already caught up in the thick of something.

I also think that the 24-hour auto-storage timer should only kick in if you haven't logged in. Otherwise you might get people filing storage requests, then waiting 22 or 23 hours and logging in to do stupid/abusive things since they know they're about to be auto-stored anyway.

[Qzzrbl]

Code Select Expand

A huge beetle arrives from the west

>Drop sword

OH DARN BUTTERFINGERS

>Drop sword

CRAP WHY EVER WOULD THIS HAPPEN

>Rest (tripping over his own boots as he tries to run)

WELL DAMN IT ALL

A huge black beetle bites you on the head, doing horrendous damage.
You reel from the blow.

>say nooooooooo

But yeah.

I would totally dig some sort of auto-storage device-- or  at least some sort of alternative to suicide to scratch that fast-action "I WANNA PLAY SOMETHING NEW NOW" itch.

[Lizzie]

I kind of like this idea, but then I've only stored a character once in order to play something else. I don't see why the 10 days played rule is necessary, though? There are characters that could easily pass 10 days of playtime without being embroiled in plots, and then there are also characters that may have only been around 5 or even 1 or 0 days, but are already caught up in the thick of something.

I also think that the 24-hour auto-storage timer should only kick in if you haven't logged in. Otherwise you might get people filing storage requests, then waiting 22 or 23 hours and logging in to do stupid/abusive things since they know they're about to be auto-stored anyway.

The 10 days thing was arbitrary - but I figure, the longer you've been playing, the more likely *someone* considers you an integral part of their plotline even if you don't think it of your own character. If you've had the PC longer than 10 days, then the usual wait, however long or short that might be, would still apply.

I sort of agree with the timer thing - but I'd say maybe the timer would start after the last time you logged in. So if you requested storage, then logged in an hour later - the 24 hour timer would begin then - not at the time of the request. If you requested storage, and logged in at hour #23, the timer would begin then, and you'd have to wait another 24 hours for the auto-store to work. By that point (which would be 47 hours) - it's a good guess that at least one staff member has seen your request, even if they can't respond to it yet. So they'd be able to take a look to see if "stupid behavior" has occurred.

[Delirium]

Can't say I support this. Instead I recommend patience.

[Qzzrbl]

But my instant gratification.

:c

[Lizzie]

Can't say I support this. Instead I recommend patience.

Why don't you support it? I mean, there are plenty of players who have had their characters stored within minutes of requesting it. Including myself. If it's not a big deal for a staff member to store someone within minutes of requesting it, why would you object to an automated system storing someone after 24 hours?

[Feco]

I'm not against this, per-say, but I'm not certain it's really the best use of staff time to implement a system like this.  I imagine it wouldn't be as simple as it seems.

[RogueGunslinger]

Can't say I support this. Instead I recommend patience.

Why?

Probably going to stir up some controversy here, but I like to lay down the truth.

I just suicide characters like that. That isn't to say my character commits suicide, they just do stupid stuff until they die. It's my character, if I don't want to play them and they aren't highly involved with others, don't have friends, and are not involved in any plots I will find an IC way to put them in a deadly situation.

I mean, my character is probably going to die to Gith#32 anyways. So what if I go "Exploring the Red Desert" and end up dead in the exact same way. My character just wanted to see the world, you know?

I hear a lot about "staff frowning on something". Well, they can frown all they want. Until it's some sort of rule that I'm not allowed to put my unknown, worthless character whom I don't like playing anymore into highly deadly situations, I'll probably keep doing it.

I'm allowed to suddenly have a character go through a mid-life crisis and want to become a hunter of the wastes. I know this because I've had character who I didn't want to die legitimately want to do that. I had it all planned out and it was going to be awesome. Instead I got lost in a storm, fell off a cliff and died to some Gortoks. I didn't want my character to die, but in a way I basically just suicided them. What's wrong with doing this on purpose?

[williamson]

I may be in the minority. However, I think players should be encouraged to play their characters out and not to store them. If you're getting frustrated because your storage times are too long, I'd wager that you're storing WAY too many characters.


Let's examine your example of the Red Storm burglar who is stuck in the village due to bad weather.


Solution A:  You're bored waiting out the bad weather and choose to store your burglar. You make a new character via an automatic system.

Solution B:  You're bored waiting out the bad weather in Red Storm. You decide to brave the weather and make a trek to Allanak. Either one of two things are going to happen. You either survive and make it, or you die along the way. If you make it to Allanak, you've now found a new place to try and play a burglar and added a nice story about your character. If you die, you still get to make a new character. However, a few hours later, someone finds your corpse and gets to try to figure out what happened to you AND loot your body. Maybe they were nearly broke or really needed your water? Maybe they use your body for magickal experiments? Maybe they take your head and try to collect a bounty, claiming your head is someone else?

I think the game is a lot more fun when players choose Solution B. I'm sure there might be a few characters where it's best to store, but most characters should just be played out, even if you spend a couple of days bored.

So, I give easier storing two thumbs down.

[Lizzie]

I may be in the minority. However, I think players should be encouraged to play their characters out and not to store them. If you're getting frustrated because your storage times are too long, I'd wager that you're storing WAY too many characters.


Let's examine your example of the Red Storm burglar who is stuck in the village due to bad weather.


Solution A:  You're bored waiting out the bad weather and choose to store your burglar. You make a new character via an automatic system.

Solution B:  You're bored waiting out the bad weather in Red Storm. You decide to brave the weather and make a trek to Allanak. Either one of two things are going to happen. You either survive and make it, or you die along the way. If you make it to Allanak, you've now found a new place to try and play a burglar and added a nice story about your character. If you die, you still get to make a new character. However, a few hours later, someone finds your corpse and gets to try to figure out what happened to you AND loot your body. Maybe they were nearly broke or really needed your water? Maybe they use your body for magickal experiments? Maybe they take your head and try to collect a bounty, claiming your head is someone else?

I think the game is a lot more fun when players choose Solution B. I'm sure there might be a few characters where it's best to store, but most characters should just be played out, even if you spend a couple of days bored.

So, I give easier storing two thumbs down.

Uh - no, that's not how it went. Here's how it went:

n
>Tremendous sandstorm, you can't see shit, you stumble and get lost, or whatever that echo is.
s
>Tremendous sandstorm, you can't see shit, you stumble and get lost, or whatever that echo is.
e
>Tremendous sandstorm, you can't see shit, you stumble and get lost, or whatever that echo is.
w
>Tremendous sandstorm, you can't see shit, you stumble and get lost, or whatever that echo is.
s
>Tremendous sandstorm, you can't see shit, you stumble and get lost, or whatever that echo is.
>Your stamina is now down to 0, you have to rest.
rest
>You are getting thirsty.
get waterskin pack
>You get your waterskin from your pack, for the third time in the last 24 RL hours and 4 RL hours of game play. It is empty.
stat
>Your stamina is still zero, because you're stuck in a tremendous sandstorm, you moron. Sit there logged in for at least 2 more RL hours, and you'll be able to move again. Of course, you'll be moving in a tremendous sandstorm, and get lost again, but the game code will have much fun laughing at you.
quit ooc Have to go to work (although at the time this happened to me with my burglar PC, there was no "quit ooc". I couldn't quit out, because my character wasn't a ranger. I had to go linkdead.)

login 8 hours later

Reconnect:
>You can't see, there's a tremendous sandstorm. You are very thirsty, peckish, exhausted, and this isn't going to change for another 2 RL hours, no matter how long you log out for. Sucks to be you, bwahahahaha.

[RogueGunslinger]

Not everyone plays the game the same way. I personally can't "get into" every character I make. I've gone through nearly two hundred characters. I love making new characters. The first few days played as a character are often the best for me, and if I find myself losing interest in that character after those first few days I have almost never felt my connection to that character grow stronger.

I've done as suggested and just "stuck it out" for real life MONTHS. It didn't get better. I wasted my own time not having fun, when I could easily just have started a new character and immediately got sucked back in. So instead, it's off to do dangerous thing #234 in dangerous place #17. At least the danger will give me an adrenaline rush before my character dies. Much better than waiting 2 days of being completely unable to play. And way, way better than staring at the local empty tavern for hours.

[Lizzie]

Also Williamson, this thread isn't about the pros and cons of storage. The staff, and players, already accept that sometimes you want to store a character, and the staff does not reject storage requests. They might ask that a player finish up a plotline, if they're seriously involved in something - but they will not force you to play something you don't enjoy. That would drive players away from Armageddon entirely.

So okay - you are against storage. Start a thread about it. This thread is about methodology of storage.

[Molten Heart]

Personally, I think storage is something that shouldn't be something so easily done.  Storage shouldn't be a common thing, and when it is done it I think it should be something staff assist with.  I don't like the idea of storage being something someone can do on their own on a whim, or a couple of keystrokes.

[RogueGunslinger]

Personally, I think storage is something that shouldn't be something so easily done.  Storage shouldn't be a common thing, and when it is done it I think it should be something staff assist with.  I don't like the idea of storage being something someone can do on their own on a whim, or a couple of keystrokes.

Why?

[Qzzrbl]

But one can suicide on a whim, in a couple of keystrokes.

I think we're seeking something about as fast as suicide that leaves you feeling clean like with storage.

[Lizzie]

But one can suicide on a whim, in a couple of keystrokes.

I think we're seeking something about as fast as suicide that leaves you feeling clean like with storage.

It's not quite as fast as suicide - that's why I thought a 24-hour "cooling off period" was a good idea in the first place. It gives you 24 hours to change your mind and cancel the request. (assuming the staff doesn't resolve it before that timer expires)

[James de Monet]

What if filing a storage request gave you the ability to apply for a new character right away, instead?

IE, you apply for storage, your home screen now gives you the ability to apply for a new character OR log into your current char.  Then, the requests would be piggybacked. When your storage request was processed, your new app would be either approved or sent back at the same time.

This would give you the ability to continue playing (on your current char) without feeling like you're wasting time, because your new app is already in the pipe. Then one day you log in (or staff asks you to log out), and boom, you're in the hall of kings with your new char.

Would that be better?

[manonfire]

Storage should be an option from the main menu, imo, with zero delay.

[RogueGunslinger]

Storage should be an option from the main menu, imo, with zero delay.

Could never wrap my head around why it wasn't.

[Nyr]

Quite a few times, I've wanted to store a mostly unimportant character, but was frustrated by the amount of time it can take to get the request resolved.

Yet every time but once, your storage requests were handled within 24 hours.  That outlier took 3 days and required clan sign-off.  That was years ago.

But if I'm playing, say - unclanned, gemmed, vivaduan #973, who was a normal app, who has had less than 10 days played, who isn't anyone's "coded" boss and isn't anyone's "coded" aide...

wouldn't it be great if the game automatically stored me 24 hours after the submitted request, if a staffer couldn't get to it first?

If you're playing an unclanned role and aren't immediately recognizable as someone involved in a plot, you'll more than likely be stored within 24 hours.  Any Admin+ can handle that and there are 7 of us.

Suiciding is frowned upon by the staff. And I get that. But honestly - sometimes, your character is _SO_ unimportant, SO insignificant, combined with being SO frustrating - that you really don't want to wait up to four, five, maybe even six RL days just because you happened to place your storage request 2 days before Thanksgiving and the entire "Unclanned" staff is travelling to their families for the holidays and won't be back til Tuesday (or similar).

That literally has never happened to your account.  If you're speaking of the general game population, see above:  if you're playing an unclanned role and aren't in a plot, you're probably going to be stored within 24 hours.  If you happen to really want to store during some holiday period, you might have to wait a little longer than usual, but you were the one that made the choice to store.

Personally, I've only been that badly frustrated 3 or 4 times in total, in all the years I've played, and with all the characters I've stored. But even if I've been only that frustrated once - if everyone else has been *that* frustrated once - that's a whole lot of frustration combined.

If you were frustrated 3 or 4 times total, that means 2 or 3 of those times you were frustrated because staff stored you within 24 hours, so I'd find that to be a bit of an exaggeration.

What does anyone else think about an auto-store, with certain criteria needing to be met before the automated system kicked in?

I'd say no, because an automatic system can't determine whether someone is involved in a plot and is just storing to avoid it.

[Lizzie]

I don't know why it isn't - but I'm glad it isn't. I'm 100% for expeditious storage, but I'm also in favor of -some- opportunity to take it back. I'm not even fully in favor of people getting stored within minutes of the request. Sometimes people act hastily and regret it, but once stored, it's too late.

I do really LOVE James' idea of piggybacking a new app with a storage request. You'd still have to wait for the storage request to be resolved, but once it's resolved, your new character would be waiting for you. Or at least you'd have it denied, and know what you need to do, to make it acceptable.

[RogueGunslinger]

I also don't understand the "no/very rarely un-storage" policy.   

[Molten Heart]

Personally, I think storage is something that shouldn't be something so easily done.  Storage shouldn't be a common thing, and when it is done it I think it should be something staff assist with.  I don't like the idea of storage being something someone can do on their own on a whim, or a couple of keystrokes.

Why?

I'd explain but...

This thread is about methodology of storage.

My reasons are mostly the same as williamson's -and- automating the process seems like it'd cause some people to store and soon regret it because it's so easy (not to mention the problems with unintentional/accidental storage).

[Nyr]

Storage should be an option from the main menu, imo, with zero delay.

Could never wrap my head around why it wasn't.

If you're involved in a plot, or a sponsored role, or a leader in any capacity, staff will want to make sure it's cool to drop you out of the game and go to a new role.  If you're leaving because you hate the role or because of some issue, we also need to know about that and need to deal with it, whatever it might be.

[Nyr]

I also don't understand the "no/very rarely un-storage" policy.   

I believe it is there for the purposes of being a disincentive to store roles for frivolous reasons.  We cover this pretty extensively in the storage helpfile.  I read over it and realized there was a part in there that probably should have said "unstorage" instead of storage--it makes the examples provided make a lot more sense when corrected.  (It's corrected now!)

[RogueGunslinger]

If you mean this part:

Reasons which have been accepted in the past for unstorage, and why we feel they are not workable:

It actually makes less sense now. I think it should be "Reasons which have not been accepted in the past, and why we feel they are not workable"


.... I... think?



Edit: Also thanks for replying.

[Nyr]

If you mean this part:

Reasons which have been accepted in the past for unstorage, and why we feel they are not workable:

It actually makes less sense now. I think it should be "Reasons which have not been accepted in the past, and why we feel they are not workable"


.... I... think?



Edit: Also thanks for replying.

Considering it used to say "reasons which have been accepted in the past for storage, and why we feel they are not workable", I think it makes more sense now.  It is saying "we used to allow this for certain reasons, and now we don't.  Here's why we feel this doesn't work."

[manonfire]

Storage should be an option from the main menu, imo, with zero delay.

Could never wrap my head around why it wasn't.

If you're involved in a plot, or a sponsored role, or a leader in any capacity, staff will want to make sure it's cool to drop you out of the game and go to a new role.  If you're leaving because you hate the role or because of some issue, we also need to know about that and need to deal with it, whatever it might be.

Has there ever been a time when a character was involved in some Heavy Shit and just flat out wasn't allowed to store?  I do recall an instance where a character did some shit IG, didn't log back in, and was brought back into the game (by staff, I assume) for his execution - is this an apt example?

If the storage triggered a request where staff and the player could have a conversation about the role after the fact, wouldn't that mitigate those issues?

[Nyr]

Has there ever been a time when a character was involved in some Heavy Shit and just flat out wasn't allowed to store?  I do recall an instance where a character did some shit IG, didn't log back in, and was brought back into the game (by staff, I assume) for his execution - is this an apt example?

Somewhat.  I don't think there have been more than a handful of cases where we've had to discuss directly with the player why they can't store right now (plot/sponsored/leadership/etc) but would need to wait a bit.

If the storage triggered a request where staff and the player could have a conversation about the role after the fact, wouldn't that mitigate those issues?

Storages already trigger that now if it is needed...and it already does mitigate those issues.

[Lizzie]

Well Nyr it must've just seemed like a lot longer than it was. I even checked the last couple of storage requests I put in, and you're right - definitely under 24 hours each. The 24 hour window was an idea - and honestly I don't think it'd be necessary to have it any shorter than that, even if the idea for automation was a good one.

[boog]

I also don't understand the "no/very rarely un-storage" policy.  

When I played Shadows of Isildur, I was on like... storage probation. They didn't let me store any more. I just couldn't get into the roles I'd made for myself: it seemed whenever I made a character, the playerbase shifted into another 'sphere', or I was left with a sour taste in my mouth due to other factors. (Staff having their spouses in their clans and giving them phat lewtz while giving the rest of us hell, just as one example.)

So like, when I became staff on SOI, I saw the admin that had disallowed my use of storage said on staff forums that I must be mentally ill because I went through about 3 characters in a month or two. (Nevermind that most of the other staff agreed that her assumption was rather heartless and was a mirror upon her own problems, but I digress.) I really didn't understand what the big deal was: they were just Joe Blows and had no real significance.

I am completely fine with the storage command now; Arm is far more lenient than any other game when it comes to retiring a character. I think it would be neat if we could apply directly after sticking a storage request in, but it's not a necessity to me.

Edit: Oh, ffs. Unstorage policy. Not storage. Well. It was just as much of a hassle to unstore there, as it was to store in my case. Derp. *retreats*

[Nyr]

We really don't give a damn if people store a lot.  The only thing it might possibly affect is this:

If the storage rate is significantly high and the time played on the majority of characters is significantly low, staff will have to consider that carefully for any sponsored roles applied for by said player.

[evilcabbage]

I give a damn if somebody stores and they're embroiled in a plot.

But, like Nyr, I don't really give a damn otherwise. I've stored my share of chars (Staff could tell you this) because I despised their very existence. I feel I had a good reason for their storage.

I do not agree with the 24 hour auto-storage because I believe you should have to allow Staff to review your current situation to see whether it's proper for you to store. Suiciding your character is frowned upon, I  believe.

[ShaLeah]

I suicided a character once. She was stuck in an apartment without way of getting out and sort of went crazy cause of what she'd done in that apartment. I wished up as she slit her wrists. I don't think that was frowned upon.


Auto-Storage? No.

[Harmless]

Storage...

*gets all emo and tearful*

This is a difficult topic for meeeeeeeeeeeeee............ *breaks into song, then is shot promptly by a crossbow bolt to the head*

[slvrmoontiger]

I've only stored one PC and that's because I played it very little and was away for a five years RL and came back and it was OLD and basically unplayable.

[Eyeball]

I'd like to see the system modified so you could apply for your next character (special apps included) while the existing one is still alive. Then it sits and waits until you need it.

When your current character dies or is stored, there could be a two hour "decompression period", then you're back in the game.

It seems reasonable, and it addresses some of Lizzie's concern (i.e. prolonged waits).

[evilcabbage]

I'd like to see the system modified so you could apply for your next character (special apps included) while the existing one is still alive. Then it sits and waits until you need it.

When your current character dies or is stored, there could be a two hour "decompression period", then you're back in the game.

It seems reasonable, and it addresses some of Lizzie's concern (i.e. prolonged waits).

There really is no prolonged wait unless you're special apping or extended subguilding.