Listen, Raical skill or class?

[kiddgoth]

Now I am sure this has been touched on before but I really would like to know what everyone thinks. Shouldnt the listen skill be a racial skill insted of a skill of some classes I mean doesnt it make sense if your standing next to a table that you should be able to listen in on the conversations being exchanged its not like there are walls around the table. I have been at sports bars in the middle of monday night football and could hear people talkin at the next table. I purpose this, all races should have the listen skill maybe some races being a bit better than others maybe an elf having bigger ears are able to hear better or somethin like that, and then the class skill listen should augment the racial skill. I dont know maybe its already like that but I have never been able to listen in on a conversation to save my life and have never seen the skill on my skill list unless the it was a class skill what do you all think :?:

[Gorobei]

I was about to say "No, if that was the case then it would become completely unsafe to discuss anything in a public place."
Then I thought, "When has it ever been safe to discuss private things in the middle of a tavern?  In real life it's not, and especially not on a place like Zalanthas."

Still, I don't like the sound of this.  Listen is a powerful skill.  While listening to people at the next table is part of the skill, the skill also includes catching phrases from across the room, down the street, and reading lips.  Few people can do this.

[EvilRoeSlade]

No way.  The listen skill should be rarer, not more common.

[Hoodwink]

I always wished the listen skill produced various effects based on skill level -- rather than 100% success, or 100% fail.  For example, a good listener may pick up this:

"... going ... meet at ... near Meleths."

From someone who said:

"They are going tomorrow morning and will meet at the tavern near Meleths."

An even better listener might pick up the entire conversation.  It would be more fun this way I think, and informants might end up relating misinformation to their employers every now and again if what they overheard was in bits and pieces.

[kiddgoth]

Why should it be rarer? If someone wants to talk in private rent a room dont discus it in the middle of the tavern. I am not sayin everyone should be able to listen to a whisper or into another room that would only be available to a class with the skill to augment the basic listen skill. I was thinkin the racial listen should be more like learnin a language if you make your check then you gleam bits and pieces of the conversation until you progress in the skill those without a class that has listen would be limited to listening at a table and then until they get better would only gleam a smattering of what was said because in my eyes its feasible.

[Carnage]

Why should it be rarer? If someone wants to talk in private rent a room dont discus it in the middle of the tavern.

Because people can hear private rooms.

[Delirium]

I really like Hoodwink's idea. I've seen something similar - Harshlands, I think it was. Which I'm fairly sure is a Diku-based mud as well (it's been a long time).

Caps could be placed on the listen skill depending on what class your character is, and so only the professionals would be able to reliably overhear an entire conversation. But everyone could catch bits and snatches. Might make things more interesting, especially if what is overheard is misinterpreted.

[crymerci]

I like Hoodwink's idea as well.  Perhaps the scrambling code used for languages could be used instead or in addition.

[Anonymous]

Other people have suggested things like what Hoodwink did, and its a great idea.  I'd also add that listen should, IMHO, be a targetted skill.

`listen bar` would let you listen in on the conversation at the bar.  If you typed in `listen 2.table` you'd stop listening to the bar and listen to that table instead.

In fact, that would work nicely with what Hoodwink suggested.  `listen bar` would always work, but until your skill got high enough you'd only hear fragmented parts of the conversation.

Listen, IMHO, is probably the most common skill among players who either take it with a guild or with a subguild.  I'd like for it to get the nerf bat, personally.  Being completely aware of every conversation in a bustling tavern is too much, IMHO.

[kiddgoth]

Agreed CRW I like the target (area) idea.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

I'm all for both Hoodwink and CRW's ideas.

Geez, I wish I could think up genius stuff like that...

Oh, wait, I know! I'll just take credit for them!

*Five Disgruntled Monkeys log onto the MUD, hastily type out two explanations, then sends them in with the idea command, cackling maniacally the entire time*

[kiddgoth]

Because people can hear private rooms.

Well Cranage I assume your listen skill would have to be quite high to pull off that feat..With my suggestion the racial skill would never be able to get that high unless you had a class (such as ranger or whatever) with the listen skill to compliment it. I would also remove the skill from whatever sub classes its attached to now and replace it with something else for obvious reasons.

[spawnloser]

Actually, kiddgoth, private rooms is just a room adjacent to the room that you get the room from.  It's the same as listening to people in the next room...if they sit down, it's just like listening to people one room away in a different direction that are sitting at a table.

However, I do like the partial success thing...maybe simply adapt the listen code to give checks on each letter like for languages?

[Gorobei]

For listen, if it's possible to code, I think it would be much more realistic if you got sentance fragments, like Hoodwink stated.  A check for each word.

[Malifaxis]

Quote:
Why should it be rarer? If someone wants to talk in private rent a room dont discus it in the middle of the tavern.


Because people can hear private rooms.

I never knew that, and really f'ing wish I still didn't.

[Flaming Ocotillo]

Here's another spoiler for you:

If you assess some wearable items, like a scarf, you might find out it can be worn on several different body locations!

[creeper386]

I personally think the listen skill could use an over haul. Including the ability to target to different tables with more success. Instead of only getting bits and pieces of words perhaps if your skill isn't high enough, you may or may not over hear this or that 'talk'.

You over hear, a tall man, say....

At a blah blah blah, a tall man says...

You over hear, etc, etc...

I also think giving a butched version to everyone would be useful and wouldn't be bad by giving to many the skill, but dilute it so that it's not such a useful skill perhaps, but those that are acctually good at it ARE useful. Maybe with a new ability that they can only target certain tables. Mostly because, picking a subguild, JUST of the listen skill is almost always a temptation, because it is a really powerful skill, even though most of it, at least the lower stuff, shouldn't be THAT special as it's been stated.

Perhaps move things around to when they happen. I've found out some of the more advanced options tend to come along fairly quickly. So that you have to be more skilled before they happen.

Hmm... Thats about all.

Creeper

[Lazloth]

CRW (gasp) and Lazloth have voiced these complaints earlier.  Read on!

[Anonymous]

CRW (gasp) and Lazloth have voiced these complaints earlier. Read on!

Remember, everytime a thread gets repeated a New York Jets' QB gets his wrist dislocated.

SO READ MORE ABOUT IT.

[Angela Christine]

The only race I'd consider giving the listen skill to is half-giants.  They can't sit at most tables (unless they sit -on- the table) so they are really at a disadvantage when they go to the pub with thier buddies after a long day of smashing things.  Either everyone has to talk loud to the HG on the floor can hear them, which annoys everyone else in the tavern, or he just sits there picking his nose and missing out on everything.  Besides, half-giants have ears like satalite dishes, brains like sponges (absorbant and squishy) and they pay attention to things around them even if they don't understand much of it, so it would make sense for them to be good at basic listening.  Not so much catching whispers of things in the next room, but normal volume conversations at tables adjacent to where they are crouching or looming.

Then again, knowing the problems half-giants have with chairs and other tiny barriers, most people playing half-giants probably choose a guild/subclass that gives them the listen skill anyway.  Which is good, because it cuts down on the number of pure killer warrior half-giants.  

AC