look all

[lepxii]

  As a long time on and off arm player, there's one particular game mechanic that I find repetitive:
n
l e
l w
l n
l u
l d

[MUD replies with look SPAM, incl. all empty rooms].

(and yes, sometimes you can get by with less looks if you know there is no exit).

a 'look all' (in some other modified DIKUs this is 'scan', however this obviously wouldn't work for arm, so substitute some other keyword) would do wonders to the amount type-spam and mud-reply-spam.

It also would be nice if one could see diagonals (just the 4 near ones) with this command. It always feels a little bit silly to me to be able to see something like a mek in the wide open desert 3 squares away, but not if it is to your immediate diagonal (assuming there's no obstacle -- you could test by exits in the N and W room if you were testing for NW).

If this single command would come out as:
<description of each visible exit -- ala current result of spamed 'look'>
<a listing of each mud square with a mobile/NPC/visible-object (incl objects in each one)>

It would be nice.

[Sam]

Which client are you using? This is very easy to set up IG and on most client.

Another alternative is:
Don't look down, up, or in the opposite direction you are going.

Look in the direction that you are going every 2-3 rooms.

That is the tactic I use.

[HavokBlue]

Like Sam said, it's pretty simple to make a basic alias/trigger/whatever for your MUD client that looks in every direction.

[Marshmellow]

Code Select Expand

event: look
trigger: l;l n;l e;l s;l w;l u;l d
...and then I don't use 'look', just the shortened 'l' for everything except when I want to look about everywhere and the room I'm in.  You can do something similar to do a look that looks about without looking in the room too.

[lepxii]

With a trigger - you still have to deal with the spam the mud sends back at you (all of the empty rooms - which are interesting, in that they exist, but this information could be conveyed in a more compact fashion). Of course, you can deal with this with a script. Much easier if this were built in.

also - it's not so easy to alias this since the delay-before/after was introduced on movement. It used to be  (3-4 years ago?) you could pre-type (or script) all of your looks and they would be executed when you got into the next room (this had its advantages, but also several disadvantages, the new system is definitely more advanced).With a "simple" movement alias, you end up "seeing" around the current room (or the current + next), so you need to write a trigger (or script) to deal with this. And dealing with non-look-spam in the midst of the script isn't so easy.

(and all this is without addressing the inability to see diagonals in arm)

I'm sort of a programmer by trade (though I more into finance / quant nowadays). Frankly, I've rarely scripted/triggered stuff for any MUD. You can answer any display mechanic question by "script it", however the reality is that display issues are difficult to script on the client side robustly when the server sends unstructured and untagged data. A similar example is colors (an area I see arm as weak - would be nice if a few more things were colorized/highlighted and that this weren't left to user scripts. Doesn't have to be a kaleidoscope, of course). Sure, you can do it on the client side, however it isn't always so easy to parse every single possible output from the MUD to the correct color. on the MUD side -- it is really just modifying the relevant sprintf().

[Qzzrbl]

My solution for this is to just look in the three directions I haven't seen.... If I move north, I just look north, west, and east.

Why look back south? I was just there a second ago, yeah?

I agree, it can get a little repetitive, but I've never really found it to be an issue... That's just part of desert travel.

It would probably help out if you re-thought your definition of "look north".... Using that out in the desert means you're peering forward a pretty fair distance, seeing things that you'd just miss with a quick cursory glance.

As far as diagonals.... Even with the ability to look a few rooms in diagonal directions, there'll still be blind spots, so the same problem with uber-aggro death-dealers will still be there.

[lordcooper]

look distance

OR

look surroundings

Easy 

[lepxii]

Qzzrbl - I agree, you usually don't have to 'look south' if you've traveled north, but you're still left with 'up' and 'down' which comes out to five directions. Granted, in some areas there is no need to do 'look u' and 'look d' (and often, just one of them suffices), sort of depends when the zone was coded in and your method of travel, so on average you're left with four directions.

If you know the zone in question by heart and are willing to assume that the zone hasn't changed (a somewhat dangerous assumptions, at times, in arm it is best to assume nothing which is part of why arm is so *fun*) you can often get the amount of looks per move to 2.5 or 3 looks per click.

The amount of "look spam" per room traveled fills approximately less than one screen's worth in my mud client, and it often blocks out more interesting information (e.g. if you're with a companion(s), says / emotes / etc. - makes it harder to spot them).

It isn't that the current situation is unworkable (it definitely works, and has worked for the past 20 years!) it's just somewhat repetitive and blocks out the more interesting information (emotes, says, actual movement in the room, rooms descs, etc.).

[Feco]

I can see the:

l n
l w
l e

When traveling to the north... I see that as scanning the horizon as your walking.

But...

l n
l w
l e
l s
l u
l d

I won't say I've never done that.. but.. eh.  All I can picture is someone running north and spinning around in circles at the same time.

That's just me.

[Qzzrbl]

Qzzrbl - I agree, you usually don't have to 'look south' if you've traveled north, but you're still left with 'up' and 'down' which comes out to five directions. Granted, in some areas there is no need to do 'look u' and 'look d' (and often, just one of them suffices), sort of depends when the zone was coded in and your method of travel, so on average you're left with four directions.

If you know the zone in question by heart and are willing to assume that the zone hasn't changed (a somewhat dangerous assumptions, at times, in arm it is best to assume nothing which is part of why arm is so *fun*) you can often get the amount of looks per move to 2.5 or 3 looks per click.

The amount of "look spam" per room traveled fills approximately less than one screen's worth in my mud client, and it often blocks out more interesting information (e.g. if you're with a companion(s), says / emotes / etc. - makes it harder to spot them).

It isn't that the current situation is unworkable (it definitely works, and has worked for the past 20 years!) it's just somewhat repetitive and blocks out the more interesting information (emotes, says, actual movement in the room, rooms descs, etc.).

Well.... Generally, looking up and down aren't at all necessary....

Just trust me on this one.

I'll allow you to come to my house and punch me in the face if something comes from up in the air or from down the hole to successfully kill you.

ONLY ON THE CONDITION: That seeing it first would've kept your char from dying in the first place.*

Because usually, anything aggro from the skies will swoop down at you and start trailing you before you get a chance to flee, even if you -do- "look u" and seem them.

Now time for an anecdote: I've been playing this game for around four years now.... I've been quite a few places.... Never had anything come at me from the skies that could've been avoided by looking up upon entering the room.

*Also unless it's a magicker.... Those guys fucking haxxors to the maxxors.

[lepxii]

Qzzrbl -- you're assuming the only reason to do this is to avoid "agros" there are plenty of other reasons to look around you, some much more interesting (e.g. finding someone interesting to interact with, or avoiding "agros" that are not NPCs, interesting visible objects (new zones), and some other stuff).

[Qzzrbl]

Qzzrbl -- you're assuming the only reason to do this is to avoid "agros" there are plenty of other reasons to look around you, some much more interesting (e.g. finding someone interesting to interact with, or avoiding "agros" that are not NPCs, interesting visible objects (new zones), and some other stuff).

Okay, yeah.... That's pretty much what I was assuming....

Though I'll still attest that any PCs you see floating in midair will make their presence well-known if they're floating in mid-air to interact with folks on the ground.... And aggro PCs floating in midair will likely have you down and out before you can finish typing "Flee self".....

As far as new zones and stuffs.... Never really thought about that.....

Mmm, more back on topic though, do you have any ideas as to how this "look all" code would work?

'Cause I've seen stuff like that implemented on other muds, and it usually provides just as much spam as typing "look" in all directions.

[Synthesis]

The screen-spam problem could be solved by having a 'look brief' option.

Under this option, when you look a direction, you get a single line of text output if there is nothing there.

One additional line for each thing that is there.

Example:

> l n
Nothing.

> l e
Very far: something

> l s
Very far: Something
Far: Something

> l w
Very far: Something
Far: Something
Near: Something

[Qzzrbl]

The screen-spam problem could be solved by having a 'look brief' option.

Under this option, when you look a direction, you get a single line of text output if there is nothing there.

One additional line for each thing that is there.

Example:

> l n
Nothing.

> l e
Very far: something

> l s
Very far: Something
Far: Something

> l w
Very far: Something
Far: Something
Near: Something

I'd forgotten about that completely....

+1

[Barzalene]

I can see the:

l n
l w
l e

When traveling to the north... I see that as scanning the horizon as your walking.

But...

l n
l w
l e
l s
l u
l d

I won't say I've never done that.. but.. eh.  All I can picture is someone running north and spinning around in circles at the same time.

That's just me.

I absolutely see your point. But the other side of that is that many of the senses aren't accounted for on a moment to moment basis. I think this balances things like the fact that in real life, you might be able to hear a bahamet coming (no pun intended for you sticky eared giants) before you saw him.

[Feco]

I can see the:

l n
l w
l e

When traveling to the north... I see that as scanning the horizon as your walking.

But...

l n
l w
l e
l s
l u
l d

I won't say I've never done that.. but.. eh.  All I can picture is someone running north and spinning around in circles at the same time.

That's just me.

I absolutely see your point. But the other side of that is that many of the senses aren't accounted for on a moment to moment basis. I think this balances things like the fact that in real life, you might be able to hear a bahamet coming (no pun intended for you sticky eared giants) before you saw him.

Very good point.

[lepxii]

'look around'
north [very far]: to the north is a steep cliff that you will fall off of and break your head.
east [near]: to the east are grassy plains
south [far]: to the south is the sea of silt
... <all dirs with exits + exit descs on them + vis depth>

north very far: mangy gortok fighting some pc
                      some pc fighting gortok
east near: nasty magicker
south far: *a thin shadow*
.... <all other visible rooms with visible objects/mobiles/pcs>

nothing else. You end up with at most 6 lines (usually ~4) + number of visible objects (usually < 4) - so around 8 lines in total.