Weapon Skills

Started by Marc, July 10, 2003, 01:48:40 AM

Quick question for the powers that be.

It has always seemed slightly "wrong" imo that certain guilds only get certain weapon skills while others get all of them, or other "certain" weapon skills.

And while I am not suggesting all guilds get all weapon skills, is there any reason why guilds that get SOME weapon skills don't get them all?

If a butcher uses an axe constantly is there any reason he shouldn't improved with it even if he only gets "piercing weapons"?

I've just never understood the reasoning behind allowing certain guilds to only be able to get good with certain weapons.

And from a balance standpoint, weaponskills improve soooo slowly that even if one does happen to master them all, they pretty much deserve to gain the benefits from that skill

(and no I don't want a "As your offense improves you get better with all weapons" sort of answer.  I am looking for an ANSWER not speculation  :roll:  )
Quote from: ZhairaI don't really have a problem with drugs OR sex
Quote from: MansaMarc's got the best advice.
Quote from: WarriorPoetIf getting loaded and screwing is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

Dunno, it seems to me like classes that only recieve certain weapon skills get them for a reason.

Pickpockets for example, are proficient with piercing weapons, since piercing weapons are small and concealable, and slashing weapons because...  bah, I don't know.  So they can slash open purses with their two-handed bastard swords?
Back from a long retirement

You can get the skills. You just need to write a request into the MUD account and explain why you think your char should have them. If the staff agrees that you should, they'll modify them for you. You need to have a good reason though.  8)

I've been thinking that most guilds get piercing_weapons because daggers and the like are quite easy to come by, and to use, whereas axes, clubs and swords might take a wee bit more skill to use. But yeah, like has been said, if you think you have good reason... Mud account's the way to go.

Of course you can get skills by mailing the mud account.  That isn't my question.  You have the potential to get the psionic wave of death and demonfire via the mud account too.  Not the issue at hand.

My question is why do two guilds get slashing and piercing, another gets piercing and bludgeoning, and another two get all four?  (+ a few other alotments we wont go into)

If player X the pickpocket has a max skill of 60% in slashing weapons, why shouldn't player X also be able to get upto 60% in axes?  

This is not arguing STARTING skills %'s.  If said pickpocket should be good at daggers and swords and they start at 10% with each, fine.  What I am saying is those same pickpockets should have the ability to get good at axes and clubs IF THEY PUT THE EFFORT FORTH TO LEARN.

There is no need for every pickpocket who thinks he should be handy (Edit: Spelling) with a cudgel to email the account, imo.

If the reason for this is a balance issue, fine, state that, but at the ridiculously slow speed weapon skills improve, I don't see that being a problem.

It just allows players a bit of choice with their characters.

(Note: Like above, this is not soliciting all guilds get all weaponskills.  It is soliciting all guilds that ALREADY GET SOME WEAPONSKILLS to get them all)
Quote from: ZhairaI don't really have a problem with drugs OR sex
Quote from: MansaMarc's got the best advice.
Quote from: WarriorPoetIf getting loaded and screwing is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

Again, not what I am asking Sandor.

Why differentiate between which weapon types a guild can get good at?  If guild X gets a weaponskill upto 75%, let them all goto 75%.  If guild Y gets thier weaponskills to 50%, let them all goto 50%.  I am not asking for all weaponskills to all classes.  Just all weaponskills for the classes that get them already.

That is what I am saying.
Quote from: ZhairaI don't really have a problem with drugs OR sex
Quote from: MansaMarc's got the best advice.
Quote from: WarriorPoetIf getting loaded and screwing is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

No, you were kicked and shot down for your attitude. :)

Any person who put effort forth to learn anything could do it.  The weapon skills are differentiated for the same reason all the other skills are.
_____________________
Kofi Annan said you were cool.  Are you cool?

Gorobei:

All the current system does is force pc's to only choose certain weapons depending on their guild.

While I cannot be sure, I am 99.9% sure that the weaponskills all work the same way:  If you use a piercing weapon it references your piercing weapon skill.  If you use a chopping weapon it references your chopping weapon skill etc etc.

That means they are not like other skills in reference to each other because other skills do not have direct comparison to similar skills.

For example: There is no skill exactly like kick only for punches.
For example: There is no skill exactly like bash only for trips.
For example: There is no skill exactly like backstab only for throat cutting.
For example: There is no blah blah blah blah...

You get the picture.

Chopping weapons = slashing weapons = bludgeoning weapons = piercing weapons as far as what they do for you code wise.  The only difference is the type of weapons they work at.

And that is good!  I think there should be a distinction between the different skills.

The problem, as it is now, is that weaponskills, in many cases, are surefire ways to guess guild and as such guess potential.

If I see someone using axes, I don't assume they are a woodsman.  I don't assume they like the look and it fits their character.  I assume they are either a ranger or a warrior.

Since all four skills are basically the same, why allow certain guilds some, and others all?

If it is for balance, how does it balance? (and fine, there is an answer)

But do not draw the comparison to other skill relations to eachother.  That argument doesn't hold sand.

(and I'd like to point out in my first post I did ask for answers, not this wave of speculation)
Quote from: ZhairaI don't really have a problem with drugs OR sex
Quote from: MansaMarc's got the best advice.
Quote from: WarriorPoetIf getting loaded and screwing is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

I think we should take away some more skills....


;)
Veteran Newbie

Actually not that bad of an idea. If everyone started out with absolutely no skills .... for instance maybe only the language and the psionic capabilties, then everyone could learn what ever the hell they want. Eventually those skills that they practice would appear on their 'skill list' and they could get even better.  But, just so that we don't have uber powerful warriors with backstab ..... the skills of your char will get worse as long as you do not practice them. That could be tweaked so that they decrease at a fair rate. Or maybe just when a person is logged on or something .... just a suggestion. Although, this would be a major change, I would assume, then again I don't know anything 'code-wise'.
musashi: It's also been argued that jesus was a fictional storybook character.

That is an excellent idea, Dirr, then you could start out with NO skills and do whatever you wanted IC, except magick and stuff I am sure some guilds would stay the way they are, but I still believe that the customization is the way to go with skills, being able to craft and mold the character so the skills reflect the roleplay, not the other way around.

-Sandor

But get this. your guild represents your characters background.
Veteran Newbie

Thanks for your insight folks, but that is not the question at hand.

This thread regards weaponskills and how they are distributed, not the complete restructuring of character skills and guilds.

Again, thanks for your insight.. now shove off.  :twisted:
Quote from: ZhairaI don't really have a problem with drugs OR sex
Quote from: MansaMarc's got the best advice.
Quote from: WarriorPoetIf getting loaded and screwing is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

Oh yes, I can see it now!

Joe Twink submits an application for a "mundane" character.

Joe Twink shows up in the game with Bobo the Human.

Joe Twink thinks HAHAHA I fooled them all, I'm gonna be a nilazian drovian backstabbing assassin and help my newbie buddy who brought me to this game kill that templar he doesn't like!

And the staff will spend the next 10 years being babysitters to asshole twinks instead of running the mud like they're doing now.

YES!!!!! That is exactly what I was trying to do ..... curse you Bestatte for revealing my evil plan to ruin everything and rulse as the supreme twink of the entire Zalanthas.
musashi: It's also been argued that jesus was a fictional storybook character.

Bwahahahaha you didn't think you could fool ME, did you? I can see right through that vacant facade!

I really don't understand what this big problem with classes is all of a sudden. How hard is it for you to say, 'My character is this kind of person. When approaching a situation, they would go at it this way.' and pick a class.

If you had to break into a compound, would your character...
1.)Storm the front?
2.)Stealthily disable the guards and sneak in
3.)Steal a key and unlock the doors while the guards are distracted?

I don't know many people who, at 25+ years old, suddenly turn around and say, 'Screw my old view on life and everything I've ever learned I should be a stealthy burglar instead of a warrior!'. Just pick a friggin' class and a subclass to supplement it and live with it. If you make a bad decision don't come onto the boards and complain about how the system sucks.
Carnage
"We pay for and maintain the GDB for players of ArmageddonMUD, seeing as
how you no longer play we would prefer it if you not post anymore.

Regards,
-the Shade of Nessalin"

I'M ONLY TAKING A BREAK NESSALIN, I SWEAR!

I have no problem with the way things are now, I was just making a suggestion, as I pointed out.
musashi: It's also been argued that jesus was a fictional storybook character.

And once again, thanks for your insight, but this current line of thought has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QUESTION AT HAND.

*clears throat*

Thank you.
Quote from: ZhairaI don't really have a problem with drugs OR sex
Quote from: MansaMarc's got the best advice.
Quote from: WarriorPoetIf getting loaded and screwing is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

Marc it has to do with game balance, for the most part. A balance between skills. A warrior is well, a warrior, he uses weapons. A ranger also uses weapons but more often to live in the wilderness as oppossed to kicking that dudes ass down the street. A pickpocket... Might use weapons, but isn't going to be grandly profieient most the time, because most the time he is nicking, running, scouting the nick, and who knows what else. Assassin's are generally assassin's and don't go around toting five foot bastard swords of doom, nor is a battle-axe very useful for a surprise attack. They are slow and not very manuverable. Blah blah blah, continuing on everything.

It's an issue of game balance, as it balances out skills. As for weapon skills going up slowly? Over all I think weapon skills goes up really quickly in comparison to the main skills of most other guilds. Sneak and Hide for sneaky characters goes up really slow, as does backstab/steal blah blah blah, and crafting isn't exactly the fastest thing ever... Maybe you should try to become very skilled with a bow, that takes forever. I've found out over all... By five days a warrior that doesn't spam fight or anything, but roleplays out a role, specially in a merc company like they Byn or an some other schooling sort of thing is very good with weapons. Then about fifteen they are really scary to most the population inside cities and such. I'm sure it's a big gap before they get frightfully scary even to the would be powers but still... To get an assassin up that quickly, or a completely RP character that doesn't use code just RPed skills it takes easiely that long just to build different contacts and such... Weapons skills go up alot faster then any other skills I've seen.

Anyways... I'm pretty sure you can still use weapons if they aren't on your list. I'm pretty sure you can even succeed at them without on your list. But if your playing outside the norms set for the varying classes... You should email the MUD account. As there is a reason they have classes... Other wise it'd be a completely skill based system. And the chance of a MUD thats this old, thats been on a class based system converting to a skill based system... Is pretty slim. The code is probably pretty well wrapped around class. As the sneak/hide case seems to be. Although thats an easy fix... I'm sure with how long the MUDs been around the code is frightening.. And I'm sure I rememeber the staff commenting on how convuluted the code sometimes is. Or thats just their lame excuse for being lazy... Either way that probably means the hard work and lots of time to figure things out isn't going to be taken for something that works really good.

Creeper who just tried to comment on everything he read... And confused himself.
21sters Unite!

Creeper:  Heh... okeeeeeeey

If you believe weaponskills go up as fast or *gasp* quicker then normal skills then, well... believe it I suppose, though I think you are mistaking weaponskill with just general offensive/defensive capabilities.  Sure, someone can get mighty tough and quickly, expecially as a warrior, but that is not directly related to weaponskills.

As far as archery goes.. been there, done that.

Your response really doesn't answer my question.  Game balance, sure, but your response was included in my question.
Quote from: ZhairaI don't really have a problem with drugs OR sex
Quote from: MansaMarc's got the best advice.
Quote from: WarriorPoetIf getting loaded and screwing is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

If we were to go with a classless system, where you can learn any skill, you should only be able to -initially- learn every skill, but once you start picking up certain skills, you lose others. Take two weapon skills? Forget about backstab, and probably poison for a good while.

Erm... that's the only good example I can think of.

Let's keep classes.

Thanks Tony, but this topic is not about classes vs classless.  It is about the distribution of weapon skills and weaponskills alone.
Quote from: ZhairaI don't really have a problem with drugs OR sex
Quote from: MansaMarc's got the best advice.
Quote from: WarriorPoetIf getting loaded and screwing is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

The topic isn't, but the subtopic Dirr brought up was, and I wished to discuss it, on a discussion board. I don't mean to be rude, but I can reply to what I want, which doesn't have to do with the main thread. Another reason I wish we had subtopics back like the old board.