How does the Economy work?

[tofit]

Now I started Armageddon not long ago. I was interested in seeing how the player economy worked. This is my main interest when playing an online game. How does the economy work?
So far I've found :
The houses pretty much have a monopooly
The raw materials market

What id like to know:
Upkeep costs on houses

Playing a merchant, I wanted to become a raw materials trader. I knew from reading that the houses
pretty much had a monopoly on the market. I found that some players might be able to craft into a niche
market but if they become too much competition the houses have them assassinated. The houses really horde
the wealth and tend to make it impossible for others to get their hand into the market. So my question on this is:
How hard is it for someone to start a house eg. Build the compound/outpost, buy shops, ect? How much starting
capital does this take?

Well when I joined a house I kind of exspected that they would need raw materials. I also exspected that they would pay
more then the templar for it since they need raw materials for crafting.  Well they do need raw materials
but they expect their workers to gather it without any sort of extra compensation. There is absolutely no motivation in this
If I can go sell it to the templar and make 10 pieces from it, I don't want to give it away. If the templar pays 5 coppers for something
I expect that the clan will at least match it or pay more. Then it would be profitable to collect it, exspecially if that piece they bought for 6
sells for 10 or 12 in a different city.

If the house just collects all the materials on their own and makes a finished product like weapons and armor, all they are doing is sucking up
the wealth generated from new players, and giving nothing back. So what I'd like to know is where does the coin collected by the houses go.
Of course they need to make a profit, but at what cost? Whats the cost of running a house, the monthly/yearly upkeep on everything? If its in the city
with stalls and such there is certainly some upkeep on the land and the buildings. Also if its in the desert there would be upkeep like repairs and guards, and general workers to keep it running.

[Lizzie]

If you are employed by a Greater Merchant House, you are getting water and a safe place to rest. If you are employed by Kurac specifically, you're getting it in two different cities, PLUS Luir's Outpost. In most GMHs you are also getting food by means of a coded cook. You are ALSO getting free mount storage.

Water can be expensive - around 40 sids to fill up a single waterskin, good for four "drinks" each.
Stable fees are 20 sids each time you offer a ticket to a stable person. That's leaving wherever you are, and leaving wherever you just went. 40 sids per round trip, just for stable fees. Of course if you are lugging a half dozen carru pelts, and you have no place to PUT them all because you're not in a clan, you have to carry them around everywhere you go. Which means more of a drain on your stamina, causing you to rest outside often, just getting from the stables to the nearest market shop that buys carru pelts causing you to get hungrier and thirstier than people who don't get tired..causing you to spend more sids on food and water than most other people.

You're ALSO getting (usually) the knowledge that you're out with a group, some of whom might be able to keep you alive better than you can keep yourself alive. You also get a sparring area, in any of the three GMHs, where you can work on combat maneuvers and defense without risking being ambushed by a scrab or halfling or rogue magicker in the wilderness while wielding crappy dull sparring swords.

You ALSO get a discount on the products sold by that GMH. If you join Kurac, it means you pay less than anyone else for spice and sandcloth - all the hunting things any typical hunter would love. If it's Salarr, you get a discount on that uber sword of tregil-killing that your non-employee would take months to afford at full price. If it's Kurac, you'll be the best damned looking tregil killer in the known world with that snappy silk scarf over your gurth-shell gorget, and the matching diamond drop earrings, that you paid the equivalent of four logs for.

In other words, you get all the things your independent character needs, free. So all the sids your employed character earns, goes to things he wants, instead. Your independent character has to pay for all the things he needs, and only then is he able to buy something he wants.

[Gimfalisette]

Additional benefits of working for a merchant house, both IC and OOC:

-- Political protection. If you're an indie and flying no clan colors, you can expect sooner or later to be shaken down by a templar and/or a soldier and forced to cough up a bribe...maybe regularly. Being Joe Hunter in House Kadius generally protects you from this type of occurrence. (Unless you do something stupid and bring it on yourself.)

-- Plot involvement. As an indie (and a noob), it's unlikely you'll get involved in many plots except very peripherally. Being part of a clan raises your chances of cultivating the types of relationships that lead to plot involvement--and I'm talking about smallish player-run plots and also the overarching, world-affecting types of plots.

-- A better understanding of the game world. You can only get so far by reading the documentation; a clan and its members will help you learn the game world.

[brytta.leofa]

If you're an indie and flying no clan colors, you can expect sooner or later to be shaken down by a templar and/or a soldier

...and/or a GMH with which you're competing...

[Gimfalisette]

If you're an indie and flying no clan colors, you can expect sooner or later to be shaken down by a templar and/or a soldier

...and/or a GMH with which you're competing...

Very true. I was referring to the more public, openly aggressive (but probably survivable...why kill a cow that still has milk?) kind of shakedown he might encounter from law enforcement, rather than the "elimination of competition" type that just tends to be fatal

[tofit]

I understand joining a clan has benefits. Though, the main topic here is the economics of the game.
The benifits of joining a clan do give a bit of balance, but it also takes away alot of other roles.
In turn what obligations and challanges do the clan leaders have to face, such as meeting the cost and
making a profit.


Your right, being able to park your beetle for free is a good benefit, and having free food, water a place to sleep
and protection all have added value to your salary. Though, once you have all that, what motivation do you have left?
Roleplaying and maxing your skills are good, but what if your main focus is to earn sids through collecting resources and
running trade routes. The houses already do that, but if you mine 50 pieces of stone or collect 100 pelts and and give them
to the house, are you going to share in the profits?  It depends on the leadership of the clan or house I suppose, hopefully they have
economically minded people running them and people.   

This is how I'd do it if I were running a clan. Those benefits the workers get to enjoy are costing the company (I'm not really sure if
they really are costing anything at this point), in the form of bribes, taxes, supplies, ect. So the workers should fil a order every month
to pull their weight, and anything over that will fetch them a profit. Or if the economy is setup right and the price paid of a obsidian
in the south is 20, it should go up quite a few bits, leaving enough room for a company to offer the same amount to the workers for any
extra work they do and bring in extra profit for the company. otherwise, people are not going to want to do the extra work and aren't going to make
extra money.

Resource gatherers are the root of the economy, they get the raw materials that are needed for making things. Now from what I read on the board anyone can go out and mine, or gather wood, and everyone here practices weapons so everyone can hunt. So if anyone can gather a resource, it takes away from specalized roles in the game.

[FuSoYa]

The houses already do that, but if you mine 50 pieces of stone or collect 100 pelts and and give them
to the house, are you going to share in the profits?  It depends on the leadership of the clan or house I suppose, hopefully they have economically minded people running them and people.   

At least on this part I know I have worked under leaders who will need a commodity and offer bonuses on those who gather it. If you are trying to get rich... I recommend going independent and working that angle. 

As Lizzie and Gimf have stated you get MANY, MANY perks for joining a GMH but one of them probably won't be getting filthy rich as a resource gatherer.  It just doesn't make sense on either end.  Either way, good luck.

Brandon

[Gimfalisette]

And hey, if getting rich is your groove right now, then go for it. I hope that once you tire of that you will also explore the other ways to be involved with the playerbase.

[Malken]

And hey, if getting rich is your groove right now, then go for it. I hope that once you tire of that you will also explore the other ways to be involved with the playerbase.

I have yet to get there myself!

The first thing you want to do if you're planning on dealing with things that you think will step on a GMH is to find someone to back you up, someone in power, someone more powerful
who likes to have your character around and alive, and who, if possible, is more powerful themselves than any of the GMH's agents and merchants around.

Then the sky's the limit.

[Gimfalisette]

wisdom

[LoD]

It's pretty common to fall into the trap of expecting 21st century concepts of "fair business" in largely industrialized nations in the world of Zalanthas, which has very little of that.  And we're not talking about some tightly knit farming community where everyone knows everyone and agrees to share, we're talking about huge GMH operations within city-states of hundreds of thousands of people who have spent centuries building monopolies, political ties, land ownership, and wealth.

It's difficult to put a price tag on political protection, a centuries old support structure, the potential for advancement, diversity of options, and many of the other intangibles that go along with service to one of these Great Merchant Houses.  You might be able to make more immediate money and achieve material wealth faster operating as an independent merchant, but it's far easier to steal that from your character in the blink of an eye without the clout and protection of an established and connected organization. For a great many Zalanthans, the opportunities provided by employment with a GMH far outweigh the risks involved with being an independent merchant.

Many people would see the early grebbing as an investment in their future.  Sure, you don't get paid much in the beginning, but the chance for advancement, stability, steady pay, and all the other perks and benefits can be extremely appealing to your regular Zalanthan labor force.  Zalanthas is an ocean of opportunity, but sooner or later you're going to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and when the sharks begin to circle, it's better to swim in their wake than be caught in their teeth.

-LoD