Literacy in Public

[Fathi]

Having recently witnessed a few of these situations ingame, I got to thinking a little. In a world where illegal literacy is punishable by death and only a privileged few are granted the knowledge, what are the social taboos--if any--regarding the custom for those that do possess it?

If a noble's writing in a book in a tavern in Allanak or Tuluk, obviously commoners aren't going to have room to comment, but what about the other nobility? Would it be socially frowned upon for any reason? Would it be considered strange? I, personally, would imagine not, but I've seen some nobles react as such.

How about members of the merchant families? Obviously, Cavilish is a different written language than Sirihish, and I can't say I've ever seen any merchants scribbling in their diaries in the Sanctuary. But would a merchant who openly exercises in reading/writing Cavilish be scorned upon by the nobility in either city? Would it be seen as too 'uppity', trying to act like they're above their station?

I'd think that if Joe Kadius whips out a notepad to start taking notes on Lady Oash's order, she'd be perfectly justified in thinking it was a bit of a sleight. What about a similar situation happening in Tuluk?

How about templars, in either city? Would it be seen as goofy or stupid or possibly a security risk to be wandering around with your scripts in plain view? Or would openly reading and writing in front of the common rabble be seen as a way to further separate yourself from the crowd and drive home your superiority and authority?

Just curious as to what the playerbase's opinions on this were, as the differing reactions I saw to the scenes in question seemed pretty inconsistent and all-over-the-place and I couldn't really pinpoint if there were any social norms.

[Kevo]

Depends on the Character for me. It's like parents that smoke cigarettes in some ways, and cops that do drugs in another.

One is, oh, how about that. my parents smokes. Nothing's changed, and I still don't get to/have little interest in.

While the other is more of a visual affront. Watching some cop do hardcore drugs, and knowing damn well he'd bust you in the ass with his stun gun/steel bladed staff if you ever tried.


But I've only seen it IG once, so I only have one paradigm to work with here.

[Boggis]

My opinion would be that Templars / Nobles can whip out a book anywhere, anytime and start scribbling away. Everybody knows they're high blood and educated so there's no issue. While some may choose to write out of sight others may use it as a tool of superiority and I don't think that a Templar / Noble writing in public should attract any criticism for it from their peers. GMH family members, while of common blood, are taught how to write and read Cavilish and because of their financial muscle in the world this is something that is deemed permissable by the Templarate but not something that should really be flaunted in public. People are rarely bothered about things that are done out of sight and I would guess that the Templarate in both city-states are prepared to suffer these GMH commoners being able to read and write once they are somewhat discreet about it

[Gimfalisette]

Some noble Houses are specifically much more pro-book and interested in books not only overall, but it's expected of their individual members to be interested in books or to write books. Some noble Houses are specifically anti-literacy, as well. Nobles playing in those Houses with different attitudes might snipe at each other over books and their use, sure, but neither of them is going to "win" on the issue alone; it's just a preference. When I played my noble I often took out a scroll or a book and emoted writing stuff while hanging out in a tavern, because it was totally in line with the docs and the character and because it was a good way to pass the time sitting at a table by myself. (I hate idling and just looking like I'm doing nothing at all.)

I seriously can't conceive of a noble in either city-state being -offended- by a GMH family member using literacy in order to more efficiently do their job. They're allowed, legally, by the city-states to read/write for that purpose. By virture of their birth, they -are- better than the rest of the common masses, even if they're still not as good as nobles.

[Dalmeth]

My view of the Merchant Houses is that they are given a little leeway by the local authorities because of their economic contributions.  However, that leeway can cause some social disturbance if flaunted too openly.  Some might think they hold themselves above the common citizen.  Others might think they hold themselves among the Templars and Nobility.  That's the sort of thing that always happens when you start giving out special permissions.  So, those that see it as a growing problem might be more strict about public protocol in regard to literacy.  Others, who see no problem, would have little reason to care.

[Vanth]

When I immed for Kadius and again for Salarr, I told my the new family members during setup: you can write, and it is legal to do so.  However, doing so in public often "confuses" other commoners, so be discreet about it.

It's not something I was instructed to say, but it seemed to me that ICly, most nobles would understand it's just mercantile scribbling, whereas other commoners would realize "hmm, some commoners are more common than others."

[Southie]

I was always of the opinion that written cavilish was not as advanced a language as written sirihish/tatlum, and was only really suitable for recording things like contracts and sales. I was ever playing a GMH family member, I wouldn't include things like detailed descriptions of events, poetry, or non-business-related writings in my journal, since it seems like these things would be "outside the vocabulary".

Of course there's probably things in the game that contradict that idea, and no restrictions against writing down whatever you like. It's just a rule of thumb I'd try and stick to.

[Armaddict]

My view on the merchant houses and their powers of literacy was that it was necessary for record-keeping and to be able to communicate with some of the less available conduits they had to go through for their business.  None of this is public work, so them doing so in public may be frowned upon by the templarate and nobility, who can do it for whatever purposes they wish.

[jstorrie]

I was always of the opinion that written cavilish was not as advanced a language as written sirihish/tatlum, and was only really suitable for recording things like contracts and sales.

Cavilish is mostly oriented around merchanting, but that doesn't mean it's a language that can only express business deals. I've always assumed that the templarates turn a blind eye to cavilish-writing because the commoners generally don't speak cavilish, so there's little risk of it 'spreading.'

[Mood]

I was always of the opinion that written cavilish was not as advanced a language as written sirihish/tatlum, and was only really suitable for recording things like contracts and sales.

Cavilish is mostly oriented around merchanting, but that doesn't mean it's a language that can only express business deals. I've always assumed that the templarates turn a blind eye to cavilish-writing because the commoners generally don't speak cavilish, so there's little risk of it 'spreading.'

Also, the Great Merchant Houses would be reluctant to spread its use to other commoners, for the same reason the nobility and templarate are reluctant to spread R/W sirihish.

[Ghost]

I was always of the opinion that written cavilish was not as advanced a language as written sirihish/tatlum, and was only really suitable for recording things like contracts and sales. I was ever playing a GMH family member, I wouldn't include things like detailed descriptions of events, poetry, or non-business-related writings in my journal, since it seems like these things would be "outside the vocabulary".

My thoughts exactly.  It would make sense to me for Cavilish to be pretty much limited in both speaking and written way.

[a strange shadow]

Cavilish developed as a mish-mash of sirihish and bendune. It makes perfect sense for both written and spoken versions to contain a full vocabulary. For all political appearances, it makes perfect sense to pretend it doesn't.

[Doppelganger]

My thoughts exactly.  It would make sense to me for Cavilish to be pretty much limited in both speaking and written way.

"I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men, and German to my horse."

I am with jstorrie. Language of merchants, perhaps, would be difficult to write love poetry in, but I believe limitations are decorative, rather than functional.

I don't remember which language has 100 words that means "snow", some natives from Siberia, Alaska or Canada I am sure. Existence of that language does not make other languages very limited in talking about snow, neither it suggests that snow is all that those natives talk about. Likewise, Cavilish might have hundreds of synonyms for "profit" and a special single world that means "the sale of two tanned gortok hides to Salarri Junior Agent", and it must be lacking in other areas, but not to the point where you can't get a simple business-unrelated thought across.

[Marauder Moe]

Cavilish is not a...

!!!

Serenity now.

*walks away*

[Dalmeth]

I for one can tell you for a certainty that cavilish is not a "tool" language.  It is fully functional and was once the primary language of a small culture that thrived within the city states.  Check out the help file :

Code Select Expand

   Part of the so-called 'nomadic' group of languages, this tongue was
evidently descended directly from Bendune. It shares most of the same
characteristics, such as vowel usage, but possesses a sentence-structuring
approach more similar to that of Sirihish or Tatlum.
   The legendary dune traders of ages past, once traveling merchants of
nomadic heritage who spoke Bendune, settled in the city-states at Gol
Krathu and Vrun Driath somewhere in the vicinity of one thousand years
after the Dragon's departure from the Known World. At once they began to
adopt the languages of their customers, who spoke mostly Sirihish. Within
their homes, however, they continued to use their native Bendune speech.
   With the passage of generations, the younger family members, eager to
assimilate more fully into the culture of the city-states, made more and
more use of Sirihish language structures. As time wore on, their native
Bendune became so changed that it was categorized by scholars as its own
language.
   Because of the history of Cavilish, it is sometimes referred to as the
Merchants' Tongue, since it is used almost exclusively by the current
members and owning families of Merchant Houses.

[Gimfalisette]

poetry

Oh come on. This has such huge potential for hilarious roleplay.

Shall I compare thee to a bag of 'sid?
Thou art more lovely and more valuable;
A pouch of coin is quickly spent by bid,
And no 'sid bends like you, so malleable.

[brytta.leofa]

No fungible implement thou!

[Gimfalisette]

Code Select Expand

At your table, gesticulating wildly with your extravagant purple-feathered pen, you say in sirihish:
      "But no no no, is is un-possible to most exactly describe, in this tongue, this common tongue, the
fullness of the scent of a fresh 'sid coin!"

At your table, with a slightly glazed stare at you, the svelte bard chick says, in sirihish:
      "Uh. My, uh...patron needs me for a...thing. In His Light."

Weaving to her feet, the svelte bard chick stands up from a black-painted bar.

At your table, with a faintly regretful murmur, you say in cavilish:
      "So sad they don't teach these bards to appreciate true beauty."