Half-giant intelligence

Started by The7DeadlyVenomz, April 04, 2003, 01:54:02 AM

How smart can a h-g be without being played out of their role?

Everyone, including the documents, say that a half-giant rarely becomes a leader, or something like that. Why? Are there -no- half-giants who can think independantly?

I know they are simple, but to me, that does not mean retarded. They may not be able to lead a group against an army, but why can they not lead a group against another group? You telling me that they are so stupid that they could not tell this soldier to go help that one?

And do they all speak in pigeon sirihish? While not insulting any of the half-giant players I have ever met or played with, or any of the others, I find this extremely ludicrous. Hgs are slow, not stupid.

I am asking these questions because I have the choice to make one one day, due to the changed karma mandates, and while I -want- to play a member of all the races at least one time, I do not want to make a character who is plain stupid. Slow I can handle, but stupid? I just cannot get into that role.

So? No color again...I am on a roll.
Wynning since October 25, 2008.

Quote from: Ami on November 23, 2010, 03:40:39 PM
>craft newbie into good player

You accidentally snap newbie into useless pieces.


You remember how Andre the Giant played Fezzik in the Princess Bride? That is how I see half-giants.
Quote from: tapas on December 04, 2017, 01:47:50 AM
I think we might need to change World Discussion to Armchair Zalanthan Anthropology.

Based on the basic definitions I've just read of the term, I think "stupid" applies pretty well to half-giants.  E.g., "Slow to learn or understand; obtuse," "Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes," and "lacking or marked by lack of intellectual acuity [ant: smart]."  You may be working on a different definition of the term, I dunno.

Perhaps the problem lies in the fact that most players seem to equate "stupid" with "essentially a talking vegetable" with virtually no grasp of grammar, communication skills, or socio-cultural appropriateness.  Indeed, "retarded" is in many ways more accurate, basically meaning no more than "delayed mental &/or physical development."  Half-giants are more like special cousin Bernie, who never quite moved out of home, throws a tantrum when he can't get a lollipop at the store, tried 4th grade a few times to no avail, has a TV show he's JUST GOTTASEEPLEASEMOMMYPLEASE!, and still sits at the kids table for all family gatherings despite being 37.  Well, except half-giants might accidentally squash the kids, bringing them no end of sadness.

IN ADDITION TO this, half-giants are usually curious, kind (at heart), may switch loyalties readily, and tend to emulate the *customs* of those around them.  This is taken directly from the "help race half giant" helpfile.

None of this means a half-giant cannot be a leader, but it certainly limits who is likely to follow them.  And for how long.  They may think independently, and even have their own personal goals and plans to reach them -- but that doesn't mean the goal makes sense or the plans are particularly well drawn.  Ergo, the vast majority of people simply wouldn't *follow* a half-giant, at least not very far.  Being a leader isn't about telling someone what to do, it's about followers being willing to listen to you for some reason.

i]May the fleas of a thousand kanks nestle in your armpit.  -DustMight[/i]

So a 'grim' half-giant is pretty much outta the question, unless he is copying a grim person? And a half-giant, according to what has been posted thus far, could never really lead a group, becuase he might half-way through decide to stop and play with a lizard in the sand.

BUT, if that half-giant is a MEMBER of a group, following someone, he is a fearsome warrior? In other words, a half-giant would not go 'explore' the world if no one else is doing it. In the instance of, say, a raiding group, a half-giant would not care enough to raid people, and is too kind-hearted anyway to resort to such things unless attacked, pissed off, or led to do so? A half-giant could never get around to even trying to be the best warrior unless following, say, a dwarf, in the dwarf's goal?

I am not challenging anything, but I want to make sure I know what I am doing if I ever decide to play a half-giant. If I can't play a VERY slow but intelligent half-giant, then my whole character concept I have cooking is shit. And I do not want to play out of role. But I really doubt that I can mesh with a 'foolish' personage. It just ain't me.

Keep posting. What I am reading is helpful.

Oops...damn. Color...sorry.
Wynning since October 25, 2008.

Quote from: Ami on November 23, 2010, 03:40:39 PM
>craft newbie into good player

You accidentally snap newbie into useless pieces.


IMHO, the only thing that a half-giant really -can't- do is higher order reasoning.  They are intelligent enough to slowly figure their way through a simple problem.  They can be very scarily focused (for a short amount of time, heh).  They can even learn what deceit and lying are.

What they cannot do is complex reasoning taking in a variety of factors to get to a solution.  I've really enjoyed playing a couple of half-giants.  One of the things I so enjoyed was throwing away reason as we know it, and trying to think in a completely different manner.  That rock on the floor -is- more important that the best buddy you had five minutes ago getting whacked in the back room.  It -is- completely reasonable to travel half the known world to get a particular kind of alcohalic drink.  My particular brand had a lot to do with selfishness and short term focus.  Others play differently, obviously.

So, I'm probably off track, but what I would say is that a half giant can be relatively smart, for a half giant.  Meaning, they still can't do complex reasoning.
Evolution ends when stupidity is no longer fatal."

Have you ever played against a chess or reversi program that lets you set how many turns ahead it will "plan"?  If you set it to 1 or 2 turns it will make moves that are a short-term gain but that may set it up for a big fall 3 or 4 turns later.

I think that planning many "turns" ahead and forseeing the long-term consequences is something many HGs have trouble with.  Their ability to visualize the future and the consequences of their actions is limited.  The know not to put their hand in a fire, the can forsee/remember that putting your hand in fire hurts, but if they were lost in the desert it might not occur to them to ration out the food (or share it) because they can only see one turn ahead: if they eat the food then they won't be hungry, if they only eat a little of the food they will still be a little hungry.  The idea that he, or his friends, have a greater chance of starving in a few days if he eats all the food now probably won't occur to him unless he has learned it from someone else.  If someone offered to buy or trade for his chisel or axe he might make the trade without considering that he will need the tool for his work tomorrow.  Then again, he might refuse, for any number of reasons.  Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get.   :wink:

I think something to be wary of is playing the character too cute, or just for comic relief.  HGs can be kind, but they can also be cruel; not necessarily because of any deep seated benevolence or malice, they often act thoughtlessly.  He might pull the wings off a fly out of curiosity, and then be very sad when he realized he can't put them back on.

Treat the other man's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with."     Henry S. Haskins

Again, I think some of the questions are classic of many preconceived notions about half-giants, borne of.. I'm not sure.  I suppose how some previous half-giants have been played, or some obscure RL stereotype which seems to claim that all dumb people are happy people.  I know a lot of really dumb, unhappy people, myself.  But, yes, they *are* more likely to be distracted by simple things and may take some momentary pleasure from that.

So.  Can a half-giant be "grim"?  Yeah, if they have reason to be.  But also keep in mind that half-giant reasoning tends to be a whimsical, passing phenomenon -- quite contrary to dwarves, for example.  This is not to say that there cannot also be perpetually melancholy half-giants, though.  Curious & kind does not equal big drooly giggly doof.

Can a half-giant lead a group?  Sure, but these groups are likely to be composed of fairly unusual people, +/- other half-giants.

Being a half-giant and a follower does not equal being a fearsome warrior (per se).  Half-giants are dangerous more because of their size, and thus raw strength, than anything else.  They are more "effective" warriors than they are "good" warriors, if that makes more sense.

A half-giant might go to explore the world.. then might get lonely in the process.  The underlying, inexplicable desire might exist, but other traits compete with it.

What I'm trying to say is, as with any race or culture, you can attempt almost anything -- but it needs to be nestled within other possibly competing traits.  E.g., you could write up a half-giant with a desire to lead an expedition across the silt sea; however, that half-giant might be distracted by work in the T'zai Byn (joined to gain leadership experience..but perhaps never recieves it and leaves to follow some other charming leader promising to teach), etc., leading onward down some tangential digression before perhaps returning to the point.

The character isn't limited so much by what they can attempt, but what they can accomplish -- and what they can accomplish depends BOTH on how the character is played (this is the hard part), and how other characters react to them.

i]May the fleas of a thousand kanks nestle in your armpit.  -DustMight[/i]

Quote from: "crymerci"You remember how Andre the Giant played Fezzik in the Princess Bride? That is how I see half-giants.

That is probably the best parallel to Arm I've ever seen. If you think about it, he really does seem like a perfect Zalanthian half-giant. Not that they should all be based on him, they vary greatly, but he seems to match all the criterea.

I'm going go go watch the movie again now with this in mind.
 great evil walks Zalanthas...
Master Z has arrived from the west!

One of my favorite situations with a half-giant was trying to explain that
we couldnt travel because there was a fierce wind out, resulting in a
sandstorm. He asked if I could stop the wind, then I said no... he said why
not. And that led to a great deal of time trying for me to explain to
someone with the mind of an 8 year old where the winds come from.

It was seriously like trying to explain to my little brother why the sky is
blue. And that is -I- think, a great way to play a half-giant. As kinda like
an 8 year old or there about trapped in a massive and powerful body with
a pure heart. They can be easily manipulated to evil because I think they
have an erge to impress and fit in.

So an evil Templar could easily be like "slaughter that town or no one will
like you! They will all hate you if you dont." and then the half-giant could
probably be talked into it really easily. Where as a human would have a
good bit of doubt and fear and unwanting.

Alot of people I see play half-giants just think that if they talk in 2 syllable
or less words, refer to themselves in the 3rd person, and grunt alot, that
they are the ideal half-giant.

Like say "me Trogdor, me smash." emote grunts.

anyways, thats my opinion on the matter.

I think refering to a half giant as an 8 year old only fits so far. They in a way have a mentality of a young child. They look to please, they imitate others, and they don't have much sense of consequences or any long term focuses. I don't think this all adds up to them being on the same level as smarts as an 8 year old, probably are at least alittle smarter then that. I think they can figure things out, albeit slowly, and know alittle more whats going on around them. At least to a certain degree. They aren't highly intelligent, but they aren't absolutely stupid. I personally see half giants coming down to a fairly simple, cause and effect system, that is built up over their life. Yes they do change allegiances and such, but I don't think they are so unintelligent that they can be twirled around to do anything they twirlee wants. Not that they can't be confused, deceived in order for someone to do what they want, but I don't think it can be done with everything, and it depends on how long a half giant has been doing things, how set in their way, how much others do it and so on, and so forth.

Probably doesn't help, or I'm wrong... If you can figure out what I'm saying there... But thats how I see things.

21sters Unite!

I myself get a lot of inspiration when playing a Half-Giant from both Vessik and Andrew Martin from Bicentennial Man (but mainly the book the movie was based on Positronic Man).

The reason I get inspiration from Andrew Martin is because of what he's like when he's first made. He does whatever he's told (which works well with enslaved Half-Giants) and takes things extremely literally. I imagine this is how Half-Giants are because the docs say they have difficulty with abstract concepts. I also take inspiration from Golems from the Discworld series, where they'll do whatever you tell them too and will keep doing it until you tell them to stop.

But my main source of learning how to play Half-Giants and how stupid to make them, is to look at how other people roleplay them. Since I've started playing Arm, I've seen a few Half-Giants and most of them were roleplayed extremely well.

Am I the only one who finds the subject of this thread to be an oxymoron?

Half-giant intelligence, indeed.

LMAO! Sort of like Military Intelligence.

*ducks the kalans*

How about the big blonde dude in... Hmm... That one movie... With Transalvanians... And something... SHRUG.

21sters Unite!

Transilvanians? You mean transvestites right?

Rocky Horror Picture Show![/quote]

Yeah... Sorry. They are from Transilvania though... Transvestites from the planet Transilvania in the so and so galaxy. Scary show. Very scary. Specially when friends dress up in green dresses.


PS Go back to the half giant thing. But I think the blonde dude was alittle bit like that. maybe.
21sters Unite!