Ideas.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Earlier, I was reading on a topic concerning the implementation of an etwo skill. Someone mentioned that you had to branch some things, and you would get to have a skill in etwo. This is true, but I think that the implementation of a etwo skill is a splendid idea. I see it in the same family as these skills:dual, parry. These skills all suplement another skill.
[(edit:) Sorry. I must correct something. There is no branching that allows you the skill of etwo. Instead, there are skills which allow you to use certian two-handed weapons.]

On another note, why does the wearing of a weapon say in the primary or secondary hand? Hows this? Left or Right.

In the hall of kings, or, during char creation, we might pick our hand. Then, instead of secondary or primary, we simply see left or right, and the dual wield and so forth operates according to which hand you are. I personally think this is a better choice.

I would also give advantage to left handers over right handers. This is because almost the entire world is right handed, as opposed to left handers. The ambi-dexterous would get advantage on everyone, though less against lefties. Also, an ambi-dexterous man might be able to use two crafting tools instead of one.

Of course, this might then mean that everyone chose left handers to battle those NPCs.

But then, hows this? Forget being able to chose. Have the hand rolled along with stats. Why not? It's nature, just like your stats are.

It would tell you in your score what hand you are. Make a big bias in the roll towards lefties, say, on a hundred die, 1-85 are right handers, and 86 to 95 are left handers, and 96 to 100 are ambi-dexterous.

The ambi-dexterous already come with dual-wield half or fully maxed.

The code would cause you to draw with whatever hand was your primary, just as it does now. The ep and es commands would be changed to er and el.

So when looking at someone, no matter what hand they are, you see:

<right hand> a big sword
<left hand> a small sword

So?

Venomz - thinks this might be a real nice idea.

[Fedaykin]

I agree as far as I'd like to see primary and secondary replaced by left and right.  I don't believe which hand you are better with should be left up to a random roll.  

You can choose everything about your looks, history, height and weight.  I think that which hand you are better with falls more along the lines of that category than random stat rolls which are mainly necessary to because players can't really be trusted to pick their own stats, absent some sort of point system.

I also do not think that ambidexterous should be a choice.  If anything, if it were going to give you some sort of advantage, perhaps allowing you to hold two large weapons, it could come later almost as a "feat" rather than a skill, maybe branching from dual wield.

Additionally, I'd rather not see either right handed or left handed people getting any sort of advantage over the other because I don't believe that it realisticly would play that large a factor.

[crymerci]

I don't think right-handers are actually that much more common, at birth, than lefties. It's mostly societal pressure which forces left-handed children to learn to use their right hands, because of prejudices against left-handedness in many cultures. I don't think those same tendencies would exist on Zalanthas. All IMO.

[Lazloth]

This has come up before.  I'm not a fan of the idea personally; too many other issues would be better served with attention.

[creeper386]

Also it's been brought up that most even semi experienced warriors and anyone that pays attention to that sort of thing would be able to tell which hand is stronger then the other if there is any difference.

Making this change would cause problems for anyone or has orginized sparring instead of just fighting. Like Byn Sergeant telling and checking everyone has their weapon in their off hand. Theres reasons. A starting runner against even another runner who's stronger and is pretty damn good can result in serious trouble if the starting runner has his weapon in his off hand while the other has it in his main hand. This allows people to see it was acctually the more experienced guy trying to do harm instead of just an accident and such.

I personally would LOVE to see which is which. Like a right/left add on depending on which hand you choose. I'd rather choose right and left and any benefits of ambidexterity come from skill. Everyone gets dual wield that alone could be an alright tester in a way. Don't know. Or just cut out ambidexterity or it be a hidden bonus.

I don't think the main and off should be cut off. But maybe something appended. Or maybe have something like.

<right hand(main)>
<left hand>

or

<main hand(right)>
<off hand>

I don't know. But there'd have to be some way to tell still.

Creeper who doesn't see many people RPing out that they have right and left hands.

[Fedaykin]

Making this change would cause problems for anyone or has orginized sparring instead of just fighting. Like Byn Sergeant telling and checking everyone has their weapon in their off hand. Theres reasons. A starting runner against even another runner who's stronger and is pretty damn good can result in serious trouble if the starting runner has his weapon in his off hand while the other has it in his main hand. This allows people to see it was acctually the more experienced guy trying to do harm instead of just an accident and such.

I don't think the main and off should be cut off. But maybe something appended. Or maybe have something like.

<right hand(main)>
<left hand>

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning.  Why should you be able to look at someone and immediately be told which is their main hand?  Who cares if it causes sparring problems.  If the "expereinced guy" is trying purposely to harm the less experience guy: GOOD.  Let people figure that out ICly instead of being immediately told such.  If someone wants lie about what hand their better with, its perfectly IC to do such without anyone immediately telling.

If sparring gets tougher, oh well.  Its probably for the better.  This reminds me of the old days of the J'Sparr who would fight with training daggers in their off hands to draw out fights and up their parry skill, as I recall it.  Seems a little cheap.

Lying and trying to bring harm to someone without others immediately realizing that fact due to an inference which is really OOC is a good thing.

Yeah, it can all be roleplayed out. I like the idea of removing primary and secondary, to be replaced with right and left (As well as being able to put anything in your right hand, or your left hand, -tools-)

As far as what Creeper said about being able to figure out which is the primary hand, I think he has a point. I only do a little bit of sword training, and there's a noticable difference in the size of my right arm compared to my left (Well, not noticable at a glance, but if you examine and prod a little bit) You know, small things, like my forearm on the.. uhh... palm side has a more defined muscle compared to my left arm, the right bicep is larger than the left, as well as the tricep. But on the same note, my left hand is more flexible than my right, because it's the guiding hand (Two handed sword style), whereas the right hand is the power hand.

But anyway, that's something to be roleplayed out too.

[creeper386]

But the problem is. If people don't RP this out when there is nothing coded. There is going to be less worry about it if you know which is the right or left.

And most the time you can tell right off the bat which is someones main arm. Specially if you see them fighting. Ones stronger more accurate, if anything it could be they just have more confidence with it.

People don't RP it out now. I highly doubt people would RP it out with this changed and if you don't include some way to tell which is their main hand everyone well be using their main hand instead of off hand and it kind of defeats the purpose of some of the trainings, like what the Tzai Byn has.

I remember an older arguement and someone who was around longer brought up the same exact thing as I am, which is were I got the arguement because I'd prefer to know right and left, but it makes sense. And everyone agreed it wouldn't be greatly beneficial to completely cut it out.

And it's not just in sparring, lets say someday your able to target disarm... How often are you going to target their off hand... Most likely not that often because that side is giving you less trouble. Yes it can be RPed out. And probably figured out after a fight gets going, but it's going to cause more troubles if you leave out some way to tell which is the main hand.

Creeper

[Marc]

Creeper:

"I admit it you are better then me!"

"Then why are you smiling"

"Because I know something you do not know.  I'm not left handed either."

I'm no master swordsman but I'd be up a creek IRL if I had to watch someone fight florintine and determine which was their primary hand.  How obvious can it really be if the skill is there?
 
If someone is holding a sword in their right and nearly dropping it on their own, but the dagger in their left is scoring every time, I would assume they were left handed, thats as far as it goes.  With disarm, it could just target the same hand as the disarmER's primary; left for left, right for right.  Could also make it targettable:  disarm gith right, disarm gith left  :roll:

[Malifaxis]

Now that sounds nice...

Lets see... the guy that just attacked me is using a club in his prime hand, and a knife dripping purple goo in his left.  Oh my, he just stabbed me, and now I think I've got a rash.  I'd better take care of that dagger.

disarm guy

You knock the crap out of the club in guy's hand, and send if flying!

think oh crap!  How silly of me!

stabby.  your blood burns.  stabby.  your blood burns.  stabby.  your blood burns.  beep.  mantis.

Yes, I would VERY much like to be able to disarm gith primary/secondary.  Disarm without arguement would of course default to the first weapon wielded.

As for right and left hand prime/secondary... yes, having it obvious would be nice for viewing a PC, but honestly I think it should best be left up to RP.  Personally, I always RP my character's handedness... most people don't.  Doesn't bother me in the slightest... if a player doesn't immerse themselves that far, or just doesn't give a flying fek, then why should I sweat?

And not to make this sound like I'm totally trashing on one poster, but having a combat bonus just because you're left handed?  No.  I don't think so.  I've done a goodly amount of sparring and actual fighting in my life, and (perhaps I'm a weirdo, but) as any southpaws I've come up against are very easy to cope with... because I just remember that they're using their left hand.  That means this fight will be slightly different from a right handed fight.

Know what?  There's still a big old sword (or a small knife, or a blunt stick) in that hand, which makes it relatively easy to realize where the attack is coming from.

[LoD]

I do not believe there should be any change to the way the code presently handles (or doesn't handle as the case may be) right/left hand definition.

7DeadlyVenomz Writes:

...why does the wearing of a weapon say in the primary or secondary hand? Hows this? Left or Right.

The present code specifies what weapon is being used in the "primary" (dominant) hand and what weapon/object is being used in the "secondary" (non-dominant) hand. These terms allow for the player to choose if they are right or left handed without the code telling them.  So, one PC's "primary" hand might be their right and another PC's may be their "left" and the only way you'd find out would be to look at their emotes or ask them.  I think this is simple, unassuming and easiest to play out without a complicated and unecessary code change.

Changing the code to reflect one always being right and left would mean they'd have to code in a way for the dominant to do better in combat so that the order they appear on the equipment listing doesn't matter.  They would also have to code it so that people could either choose or be assigned a right or left hand to be dominant.  This is a LOT of extra code work for something that can be discerned by observation or by a quick and simple question.

Venomz writes:

But then, hows this? Forget being able to chose. Have the hand rolled along with stats. Why not? It's nature, just like your stats are.

Well, how about we have it roll what color our eyes are, how tall we are, how much we weigh, what our guild and race are going to be?  There are some things in the game that should remain at the discretion of the player.  I would see no reason to add this feature to the game as it doesn't add anything that is not already there with a little encouraged RP, which never hurt anyone.

Venomz writes:

The ambi-dexterous already come with dual-wield half or fully maxed.

Being able to catch and throw a stone equally well with either hand has nothing to do with how much someone knows about fighting with two weapons.  The fact that they have a bit of raw talent and may be able to coordinate the attacks a bit better than someone else shouldn't have a significant role in their learning of the skill.

Dual wield deals with the character's ability to attack succesfully with both weapons and would certainly have to do with proper footing, body position, attack patterns that don't tie their weapons up, counters, blocks and a host of other things.  There is already code in the game that gives bonuses to combat for naturally talented (agile/strong) characters.

I firmly believe that the code regarding dominant and secondary hands is as open and friendly as it should be.  Players can decide which hand is their 'primary' hand and answer a question if someone wants to know.

-LoD