A thought or two...

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Further below lies a topic on stats. I thought that I would avoid the entire monolouge there and simply present this thought and idea for you.

If stats really bear out your character, and it does seem that a number of folks believe that they do (BTW, they do  :roll:, but as someone said, if you get ball-sacks for rolls, then suck it up, beatch ), then perhaps we might have four sub-guilds which have no skills and only increase a stat by one 'phrase' point, from 'good to very good', or 'average to above average', you see? Enough to take them from that average level to the above average level at the same point they were at...for instance. 76 to a 86...if each phrase is based on tens.

In this senario, we trade off those added abilities for the option to ensure that we can at least semi-dictate our character's physical makeup...this allows those who do not want to do anything about their character's stats to do just that, and those who do to do so, with a trade-off, and the knowledge that the very worst stat they can get in whatever they might rool is a poor, rather than a very poor.

I am inclined to think that while many folks will try out the new sub-classes, in time, many will return to the other classes, with the knowledge that they get those other skills they were so sorely missing in their stat-building tests. Believe me, it is much easier to become a good assassin with guarding skills so that you can make-believe that you might be a warrior, than with no guarding skills and ten extra points of agility.

Still, for those others, and I admit, from time to time, I would be one of those others...

name: Twerp
race: human
class: warrior
subclass: bodybuilder, acrobat, intellectual, or endurance runner(or something, couldn't think of a class name for an boost to endurance)

Also, I was just thinking here, but, maybe it should boost it by 20 pts instead of by only ten. Also, if you by luck choose the str sub-class and you rolled a AI on your character, you should go ahead and be able to surpass your racial maximum. I don't know about this last part, but that would account for those freakish Arnold characters. And still, with the lose of all those skills the sub-guilds could give you, I think it would balance out.

The addition of the sub-guilds them selves, with the proposed 10 pt stat boosts, would be more than enough.

What do you think?

Venomz

[John]

I like it ON the proviso that the current skills get broken up more. And also make it so you can't choose:
Warrior
Body Builder/Body Builder/Body Builder/Body Builder

or just all different kinds of stat boosting ones. (i.e. choosing Body Builder/Endurance Runner/Intellectual/Nimble Person).

I also think 4 sub-guilds is a bit much. IMO the most you'd want is 3, probably more closer to 2.

I'd also like to see the stat-boosting ones, also give you a minus affect on others. Such as if you take BodyBuilding then you lose 5 points Agility and 2 points in Wisdom. That's not enough to matter overly much, however it does help to balance out the boost IMO.

I love the idea of being able to choose another subguild instead of boosting stats.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Uhm, the bodybuilder/body.....nah...just one subguild...I was just showing the options. You don't get no multiple options for sub-guilds...



If you should choose those stat building sub-guilds, you do NOT get a typical sub-guild. You can only have ONE sub-guild, and you can choose to either have more skills to further flesh out your character's arsenal, or you can choose to make sure your character's stat in one area is ok.

So no, no penalities for taking a stat subguild, none but the lose of those skills that the normal sub-guilds typically give you.

Basically, just add these four subs to the subs we have now and carry on from there, with no alterations to the game code or to character creation. Just the option for those who wanna use it. I think that it balances itself by saying that you  can choose either the skills, or the small and still leary stat boost.

It should satisfy everyone, on both ends of the spectrum.

Venomz

[John]

ooh okay. Understand better now. Yeah, I think it's an okay idea. I know I certaintly would rather a sub-guild then a small stat boost. I doubt TOO many people would go for the stat boosts. Sure at first a ton of people probably will, but once the novelty wears off they'll probably stop.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Yup. That was my thought as well. It would provide an option for those who are really worried about their stats, while not over-balancing the game in any way, in my opinion. So those folks with the mentality of whatever are cool, and those with the mentality of gotta have it are cool too.

Venomz

I know this would be taking this concept a step or three further, but what about a less guild absed system and more open ended skill selection and also a way to choose which stats are more important to you? Similar to other unnamed RPI muds, heh.  I'm not sure how one would implement this with the current methods of branching and karma guilds, but just a thought.

[Meep]

If you're talking about certain other muds, which I suspect you are.. ugh, no. Arm is so complex right now and its classes are, in my opinion, pretty well thought out and pretty hands off for imms as far as characters go.

On many of the muds of which you speak, imms take up way too much time having to get involved in each and every pc for this or that reason just to set them up and it can be an absolute nightmare.

[John]

what about a less guild absed system and more open ended skill selection

This would be pretty difficult to incorporate with our current system. If this was done then it would be difficult to stop people from choosing the rare skills (such as backstab) so you'd end up with people who have mostly Warrior skills but can also backstab and peek. Also with the curren system when you become really good at Skill X and Y then you get to branch skill Z. That would be fairly difficult to create with the system you propose.

I think it's pretty balanced atm (with the odd skill here and there).

[creeper386]

Bad idea. Doubt it'd help those that are afraid of stats... average to above average? WHOO HOO! No. Hardly see a difference between poor and good, let alone a smaller amount. And people, if this is your problem of being afraid of the stats. LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE HAD OLD CHARACTERs. There is a point where stats don't have much help. Unless you run into someone that is the same in skills as you are, but when you get onto the upper tiers your most likely going to be better or worse in skills and thats going to be whats going to help/hurt you. Not a little difference in stats.

There is no problem with stats. But pushing for things like this gives that one guy who's arguement is to just remove stats from score completely some meat for his debate.

AND WHY THEY HECK DO PEOPLE HAVE CREEP AT THE BEGINING OF THEIR NAME? KNOCK IT OFF.

Creeper

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Truth be told, I am not concerned about my stats to the point where this matters. But when I saw how big the last post got, I figured what the hell, and wrote down something that would simplify the entire thing. Right now I play a great character with crappy stats to me, and I dont care....

This was a balanced way for folks who -would- really care about the str...and BTW, fuck removing the stats part...it is good to at see what you are so you can play to it.

Venomz - is never wrong.

[Carduus]

Except when he is massively out-voted by a jury of his peers.

[Lazloth]

I initially voted against this premise, but I've come to rethink my decision.
If incorporated a la acrobat (ie., fewer skill options, minor boost to primary stat), I believe it fits.

On the other hand, I think the set of subguilds is certainly adequate to handle the wide variance of ancillary roles players might opt for.  Just depends on how many permutations of additional subguilds the community wants, I imagine.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I did not know that acrobat contained a stat boost, but that is irrelevent in this discussion. The four new sub-guilds that I had suggested have -no- skills, and it is that loss of skills that balances out the thing. People love skills, and as someone said before, people would likely mess with these new guilds for a while, then go back to the old ones, the ones which give a person skills. But in the case of an arranged character concept, where you -need- those stats, such as a warrior who you have described as hulking and muscled, the sub-classes would be there to help back that notion up.

Feel me?

Venomz - who does not give a damn if others do not like his ideas :twisted:  :evil: .

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I do suscribe to the idea of writing desc which make no mention of bodily power. My recent character has a very simple desc, and very effective, and it makes no mention of his frame as a whole.

But at times, you -want- to write up a brute, or a jack-rabbity guy, and these are the instances where you can choose these four sub-classes and take the loss of sub-class skill, or you can elect to go for the gusto and hope your roll is good.

It would make for very annoying thoughts at times, if everyone only mentioned their non-muscular features. Everyone would be 'the brown-haired, black-eyed guy'.

But, I do not care a great deal about this. I will play my hulking fellows and lithe killers without worrying about my stats. It would just be nice to have the -option- to care. And as I said before, I cannot see everyone choosing those new guilds. I -really- can't. Then there would be no warrior/thug combos, or thief/acrobat. And who really wants to play a warrior without sap? (This is a slight bit of sarcasm, for those who cannot note this.) *grin*

Venomz - the realest.