The nearly-dead johzal shouts, "LIMIT BREAK!"

[Kronus]

So you're sitting out there, tracking down the local fauna, trying to keep your belly full and your mouth wet, and after a little bit of searching, find something easy and edible to bring down.
Brandishing your weapon of choice, you close in on your prey and start beating it. You slash it solidly on the head. You bludgeon it hard on the wrist. You wound it with your pierce. You dance away from its attempts to defend itself, laughing with ease at yet another flawless victory.
Then the critter gets down to 'terrible' condition, and everything changes...

You can't hit it. You can't even get a scratch or a graze or a nick. It hypnotizes you with its stare, making you stand there like a dummy for a while as it makes eight or nine unanswered attacks at you. Where before it had trouble getting through your sandcloth wristwrap, now it's devouring your head clean off your shoulders, nearly severing your hand at the wrist and taking out a big chunk of your kneecap.

Not sure what the heck just happened, you cut your losses and run to lick your wounds, wondering what you just witnessed...

What is the deal with NPCs getting these "limit break" death attacks? Am I just the unluckiest person alive, or does this happen a lot? It's not like the critter is just a powerful version from the start, it doesn't get good until it's almost dead, and then it lays into me like a bahamet on speed.

What causes this phenomenon?

I've personally never seen that, but I have seen (quite often) Myself get beat pretty harshly in the first couple rounds of combat, (To say... moderate condition) then I start landing hits for a while until the creature is at "does not look well", then we pretty much go one for one as far as assess status goes. "does not look well" vs. "poor", "poor" vs. "terrible", "terrible" vs. "near death". Okay... now that I think about it, it's more like two for one after "does not look well"

[John]

I've seen this happen, and when you think about it, it's realistic. Some animals (not all mind you) when near dead, will suddenly get a burst of adrenaline. They realise if they don't give it their all, they're gunna die. Happens all the time, the term's called 'getting your second wind'.

An example is when your in a race. Your running along, your about exhausted and then something snaps and you suddenly think "no, I'm not going to give up" and you get a burst of strength and start running really fast. Once the burst of strength is gone then your 100 times worse then before, but you might of won.

I beg to differ John, only a bit though. I agree adreniline could have a big effect on it, but I'm pretty sure catching your second wind is when your body starts burning fat reserves, after having burnt off all your simple carbohydrates. Or something... if someone knows what I'm talking about, and knows the real words to use, please clarify.

[creeper386]

I don't know why these things happen in real life. But I know it happens alot. With animal and humonoid NPCs, with PCs just about everyone, bet vNPCs do it too. It can be extremely strange most the time. Nearly decapitate something and all the sudden it lands a massive length of attacks while you just stand there doing little, seems you hardly defend as well... Could be realistic in some circumstances, but hardly not all even for differeing cases between same type animals.


Creeper who is thinking the battle code in general could use a nice good update, at least a small kick in the arse.

[dokkenhot]

I've been in this situation a few times, myself, and I have a hard time swallowing it. Sure, if wounded, an animal will attack or defend itself viciously. It;s instinct. But when half of your arm is dangling, the blood loss is copious and adrenalin is pounding in your ears, I doubt you are going to hit or at least attack as much as some of the critters in the game do. I guess in certain situations(luck of the dice, really), it will dole out to make more sense. But most of the time, it seems unrealistic and takes away from the satisfaction of actually beating the tar out of something fair and square.

[Sanvean]

There is no special code in place for when something is about to die. This is just the law of averages in action.

Get in 20 shots on something at one point, and it may get in 20 good shots at you at a later point.

[Gorobei]

I don't know the medical reason for peoples' second winds, but in my experience, what John says isn't true.
For instance, when I have a basketball game, the first time I'm out I get exhausted after about 5-6 minutes (clock time, not RL time), and the coach takes me off.  In a few more minutes, I go back on and can play easily the rest of the half.
I dunno, maybe that's me just getting warmed up (although, I warm up before the game, of course).

[John]

Well I'm not an expert on bodies or sports or anything. I just used the term because APPARENTLY it's a common term (I've never heard anyone besides my dad use it though). As for the

you get a burst of strength and start running really fast. Once the burst of strength is gone then your 100 times worse then before

part, I was just saying what happens to me in soccer (cause that's the only sport I play). I know if I have a 10min rest, I'll be too buggered to play again, but when I'm playing, as long as I keep moving around and have mini-breaks I can sprint for a bit and quickly catch up, but once I've used up all my energy, I'm worse off then before.

And that's freaky that the code doesn't deliberately do this and it's just some giant co-incidence. :?

[HaiWolfe]

And that's freaky that the code doesn't deliberately do this and it's just some giant co-incidence. :?

Bwhaha... maybe the NPCs are evolving their own intelligence trascending the code.  :twisted:

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

No real point in saying this (Since Sanvean gave us the definite answer) but I'd like to say that I've heard the expression "an animal is most dangerous when wounded", or different permutations of that. Replace 'wounded' with 'cornerned' or 'animal' with 'person'. But basically, it means they're most likely to attack, and they're survival instincts will be peaked. It doesn't neccasarily mean they'll fight better... They'll just be more willing to fight, and less willing to give up. I'm not saying that's what happened with your critter encounter, but that might be an IC way to explain getting your but kicked by a 'greasy black rat'.  :wink:

[sarahjc]

That has only happened to me once with a Kylori, my partner and I were Kick'n the crap of it, It wasn't landing a shot on either of us. When all of a sudden out of the blue this thing is poor condition it starts jumping and scratching, tarring though armor. I though maybe a new one had arrived to save it. But it was just the same little shit we had been beating the crap out of a minute ago. We both had to flee.

In my opinion its crap, if I get kicked in the head ten times, I think I should be pretty off when landing blows on my mark. I don't think I'm gonna start fighting better than when I was first going at it. In fact I would only hope that my advisary is more wounded and hurt than me. Adrenaline is not or should not help you that much when something just chopped you once to the body, once to the head and twice to the leg.

Anyway, I don't think it will change the game and for the most part I think the fights with the creatures of Arm are pretty fair.

My advice is to get better armor and make sure you cover your neck and wrists

[Lazloth]

In my opinion its crap, if I get kicked in the head ten times, I think I should be pretty off when landing blows on my mark. I don't think I'm gonna start fighting better than when I was first going at it. In fact I would only hope that my advisary is more wounded and hurt than me. Adrenaline is not or should not help you that much when something just chopped you once to the body, once to the head and twice to the leg.

So you're proposing something in line with:
adjusted_offense = ((offense+bonuses_etc) * (hp/maxhp)) checked on all hits?  
Very interesting; I like the idea.  I doubt you'll garnish much support from our heavy hitters though.

[Carduus]

I'd suggest something like a plateau until perhaps 50% of your hp is gone. You've got pain from injuries against you, and the adrenaline in your favor, and both balance each other out. However, as you hit 50%, your injuries begin to overwhelm you, and fatigue sets in. I'd think a slow tapering down of combat ability at this point down to maybe 1/2 strength at near death would be appropriate, and more realistic. That last-minute-adrenaline stuff is bull. When you're in a real, non-sparring fight, the adrenaline starts as soon as the fight does. That's what prompts the fight-or-flight response.

[Forest Junkie]

I agree with Carduus. Adrenaline can't help you if you've just been "solidly slashed" three times on the neck. Your body can only take so much before it begins to break down.

Yet I also feel that the code should stay the way it is. Arm's only a game, after all. It doesn't have to be perfectly realistic.

[Twilight]

The explanation I've seen for "second wind" has to do with oxygen depletion.  Basically, unless you are a world class athlete, your body is using oxygen and you are getting tired, then that delivery system kicks in and delivers it a bit better to your muscles, and you feel your second wind.  As a note, world class athletes like say a champion marathon runner do not get second winds, their delivery system is already functioning at full capacity from the get go, so they don't get any rush of oxygen to their muscles after having been going a bit.

As for a wounded animal being more dangerous, this is certainly true.  But this has to do with behavioral change.  So that mountain lion that would normally run away from you would instead attack you.  Thats what makes wounded animals dangerous.  It'd be fun to see wounded tregils decide to attack you!

If combat abilities were to change based on hitpoints, I think it should take into account stun points as well.  For instance, a low hp high stun person would fight better than a low hp low stun person.  Or maybe stun would start to drain 2-3 points for every attack you did at some point of hp loss, but you would have a bonus for combat, just you wouldn't have it long...

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

What Twilight said, with andrenaline creating a behavorial change and not a 'limit break' effect was my point all along. Just had to defend myself... I knew many of you had waved my post off dismissivley.  :wink: