Coding Tools & Other Items as Weapons

[Pantoufle]

Do you think that items such as tree branches, shovels, rocks and others should be coded so that they can be used in combat?  For example, while clumsy and not intended to be a weapon, I'm quite certain that, realistically speaking, I could either fend someone off or even kill them using a shovel, yet I'm not sure if the code allows you to parry attacks or attack, yourself, using one.  Just a thought.

[Marc]

*thumbs down* while I think it is realistic hitting somebody with a big branch or a shovel would hurt a hell of a lot more than a fist, I doubt you could effectively parry, disarm etc with one outside of very specialized training and so few pc's would have said training to make it worthwhile.

*thumbs down* If they were all weapons and you got arrested, they'd be confiscated.  Sorta crazy if that happened.  "He took my shovel?!  How am I supposed to dig ditches now?!"

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Thumbs up.

Skills can be raised or lowered by weapon by simply entering the amount in the builder's fields. DIsarm and parry could be dramatically lowered. Better yet, the code could just treat all or most non-weapon items as enhanced barehand items and base the damage on weight, so sure, I don't see why not.

[Pantoufle]

I guess the problem for me lies in the fact that if you attack me while I am holding a potentially razor-sharp shovel, I'm coded as being unarmed and, therefore, you'll make quick work of me even though realistically I
just might be able to sneak a few attacks in.  I could kill someone with a spoon in the right situation, I'm more than certain a shovel could be lethal: more lethal, in fact, than let's say 'a crude, bone knife' (even though the latter is coded as a weapon and the former is not).

Moreover, if you're attacking me with a weapon made out of bone or wood, I don't think I'll have the least bit of a problem at least ATTEMPTING to parry using the shovel pole which is likely made of the same or similar material as your blade.

I agree, that would be silly to have a shovel confiscated, but my main concern is the prospect of being essentially unarmed even though far more awkward tools have been used to become effectively lethal makeshift weapons.  I've heard of prison inmates filing their toothbrush handles down into a knife which they've actually killed with!

If you can kill using 'a baobab short staff', then I see no reason why 'an obsidian-headed shovel' couldn't do the same.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

In all honesty, I don't think it's unrealistic that your shovel or axe or whatever might get taken away. The Highlord or Sun King's slaves can always use shovels, and besides, aren't you a criminal? You're not using your shovel for anything worthy anyway.

Besides, if we just treat non-weapons like I suggested above, they won't get taken away, -and- they can be used as weapons.

[Nao]

Love the idea, exspecially since things like glasshackers are already coded as weapons.
How much of a parry penalty there should be, if any, would depend on the nature of the item - with a shovel, you'd be able to parry the same way as with a staff, right?

[Angela Christine]

Some tools and objects are coded as weapons.  Glasshackers and lumber axes can be used as weapons.  Many rocks can be used as weapons.


If you have an object that you think should be usable as a weapon you can always Idea it.

[Synthesis]

The easiest way to handle this would be to code the tools as weapons, but set their weapon type (slashing, bludgeoning, etc.) to something obscure that no class branches.

So a shovel could be a "pounding" weapon...You lightly pound soandso's head.  A rake could be a "raking" weapon.  A pair of scissors could be a "jabbing" weapon.  A sack of flour could be a "whacking" weapon.  A chair could be a "thumping" weapon.

Since nobody has the "pounding weapons" skill, your attack and defense would be dramatically lower than if you were using a weapon you were skilled in.  At the same time, skilled fighters would still be able to use shovels and things of that nature with a moderate degree of success. (Which makes sense...if you have mastered the fundamentals of combat, -anything- can be deadly in your hands.)

At the same time, the "stats" for these objects could be raised or lowered, depending on the tipe of item.  For instance, shovels and rakes would have relatively high "stats," since they're almost weapon in their own right--while somewhat awkward and unbalanced for combat, they are heavy and can conceivably inflict grave wounds.  Things like scissors and sacks of flour, on the other hand, would have low "stats."

[bloodfromstone]

I love it. I've always wanted to beat someone to death with a mop handle.

[Twilight]

Hmmm, are we talking about making all these items item type weapon, or allowing other item types to be used as weapons?

Remember than in DIKU, your item type determines certain things.  Unless they've massively redone things (and I doubt they have to this level), an item needs to be item type weapon to act as a weapon.  This means that it can't be item type food, or item type container, and a weapon, at the same time.

Now, I guess it would be possible to make anything that was held act as a sort of weapon without making it item type weapon, which means you could assign a damage, etc number to anything used in such a way, rather than individual items, but I imagine it would be messy.

[Cyrian20]

Then people will want to use tools for dumb things, and truthfully as much as I
would like to whack some idiot with a sack of flour... I think if he came at me
I would be better off barehanded but, code wise I wouldn't. What if my small
time thief gets nipped and losses his crafting tools, or worse what if some elf
gets nipped, is allowed to keep his tools and gets put in a cell with me where
he can kill me because he is "armed" code wise and none-crafting character isn't. (I have almost perished twice to great scenes sort of like this)


That said I like the idea and would like to see people using the idea command
on tools that just –should- be weapons.

[Lazloth]

I'm not too fond of the idea .. other than what people have suggested, like Cyrian-

..would like to see people using the idea command on tools that just –should- be weapons.

Only thing I'd like to add is that any tool's durability should be severely less than a "real" weapon.  If you lock 'blades' with someone wielding a sword, and you a wooden-handled shovel, I expect your weapon will be in pieces in one or two parries.

[Pantoufle]

If you lock 'blades' with someone wielding a sword, and you a wooden-handled shovel, I expect your weapon will be in pieces in one or two parries.

Do you honestly think that if you have a sword made out of wood, bone, or stone, that you can chop apart the handle of my shovel (also made of wood, bone, or stone) in a single slice?  There's a good chance you wouldn't be able to do that at all.  There's also a chance that I could break YOUR blade using the pole of my shovel.

You might find that an experienced warrior using a meager shovel could easily outmatch an opponent, even if his opponent were using a metal blade.  An object needn't be intended to be used as a weapon to serve as one, and in some cases they may serve as a better weapon than actual weapons!  Machetes aren't designed for combat but I'd feel more confident defending myself with one than 'a crude bone knife'.

I think the solution here is, if you encounter an object which COULD be used to defend/attack with, then idea it.  Because if all I can find is 'an agafari tree branch' to defend myself with, I'm sure it, realistically, would suffice (at least to some degree).  People have been beaten to death with sticks, after all.  You might have a sharp knife and I a stick, but that doesn't mean you'll necessarily win.  Miss your swing and you might be seeing stars after I clobber your head using merely a tree branch.

[Lazloth]

Do you honestly think that if you have a sword made out of wood, bone, or stone, that you can chop apart the handle of my shovel (also made of wood, bone, or stone) in a single slice?

I didn't say in a single slice; however, I put my faith in weapons' houses, tribes, etc. who specialize in making tools of combat to engineer pieces that are effective for the purpose they serve, and I don't share the same opinion for the farmer who glues a set of teeth onto a crooked stick that he uses as a rake.

[EonBlueApocalypse]

You might find that an experienced warrior using a meager shovel could easily outmatch an opponent, even if his opponent were using a metal blade.

I have to admit, this would be fun to RP, from either vantage point.  Why not, if it could be done?