Neutralizing Gender - an idea

[InsertCleverNameHere]

And everybody who votes on the poll, feel free to leave your thoughts!

So, I had an idea a while back, but never put it down. Seeing this thread here... http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21016 reminded me of my idea though, so I thought I'd put it out there.

Sometimes, people are truly androgynous. In fact, I saw a picture of some japanese pop-star the other day, and remarked without the adams apple, he could easily pass for a very pretty, but flat-chested woman.
On Arm, we have two clear cut gender definitions. Male, Female. And no matter how truly undefined in sex you might write your description, to the point you may make NO mention of gender in desc or sdesc, there's many easy ways to tell. One is of course, assess -v. The other is when someone else uses a !<you> ^<you> is going to come up with actual gender, clueing even the people in who didn't bother to look at a sdesc and decide what you are.

My solution.. There could be two new gender identifiers added to the application process. 1) Male 2) Female 3)AndrogynousMale 4)AndrogynousFemale. I thought at first, just one generic Androgynous marker, but then that could be abusable. What the two androgynous additions would do, would be still giving the IMMs a clear definition of what you are.. Maybe also someone who's able to identify that through ways other than just sight (psionics maybe?), but give the 3 and 4 options the same things when assess -v and using the emote directives.

Admittedly there might not be a BIG call for this, but there's been other threads with people compliaining about their genderless being having been identified through assess or emotes, and nobody bothering to recall that the being really doesn't look girly or manly, etc. And I think it would be a useful addition for those who have ideas for (I do) those genderless appearing beings.

edited to correct spelling

[jcarter]

Why not just use the word androgenous in either the sdesc or desc instead?

[Medena]

I voted maybe mainly because I'd like to know if the pronoun used would be it/its or they/their/them.

[bardbard#4]

It's spelled androgYnous.

[Cyrian20]

I doubt I would have a lot of use for it, but I have run across pc's where I think the rp would have been more enjoyable if it didn't give it away in an !,^,# emote. I vote yes one day when some coder has some time to kill. I would like it a little more refined of course but, the basic idea is good to me.

[InsertCleverNameHere]

edited out because I was being nasty.

[Hymwen]

I don't think the idea is terrible, but I don't think it's necessary and it'll likely be very low on the imms' priority list.

[LauraMars]

All hail androgYny. I am for it.

[Armaddict]

I can't wait to hit on the androgynous f-mes. Sweeeeet.  *snicker*

[Marauder Moe]

I do remember an androgynous character who went to great lengths to avoid pronouns in emotes (and also prompted my own character to awkwardly avoid pronouns in his speach to avoid embarassing him/her because he wasn't sure).  That's one option, but it's mostly for OOC benefit and I don't think it's neccesary.  If you write your description androgynously, the players will get it regardless of coded gender.

Just write an androgynous mdesc/sdesc pick the coded gender your character's appearance most closely resembles, and emote the truth during mudsex.

[InsertCleverNameHere]

I do remember an androgynous character who went to great lengths to avoid pronouns in emotes (and also prompted my own character to awkwardly avoid pronouns in his speach to avoid embarassing him/her because he wasn't sure).  That's one option, but it's mostly for OOC benefit and I don't think it's neccesary.  If you write your description androgynously, the players will get it regardless of coded gender.

Just write an androgynous mdesc/sdesc pick the coded gender your character's appearance most closely resembles, and emote the truth during mudsex.

Admittedly, that can be done and I don't fault anyone who's done it, if their woman more resembles a man, or man a woman... But it just strikes a wrong chord with me. Because if your PC is truly to the point where someone sitting on their left, and someone sitting on their right, one thinks "That's a man" and the other "That's a woman".. All it would take is one person including you with a !#^ and seeing a 'his her she he' to decide which it is you are. Even if that's wrong. Plus, I think the gender you pick upon application is supposed to be your true gender, no matter how masculine/feminine your char actually is. Maybe I'm wrong.

[spawnloser]

Yeah, I'm still thinking about this one, but thought I would chime up with something...

The IMMs have said that being in one position but changing your ldesc to represent yourself in another position (like sitting, but looking like you're sleeping from the ldesc) is abuse.  I'd say setting your coded gender to something but when your character strips, roleplaying the opposite gender is a bit of abuse as well.

I would simply pick the TRUE gender for my character and make it clear through sdesc and mdesc descriptors that my character is VERY difficult to tell the true gender on...and let my fellow players roleplay, and let them deal with their auditors, the staff, while I play my character as my character should be played.

[Marauder Moe]

I think I recall a staffer once saying that picking the gender of your appearance is better than picking the gender of your genitals... but I'm too tired to dig up that post.

I really think it'd be very hard to be exactly on the line that making a gender judgement would be completely arbitrary, though.  Facial hair/stubble?  Adam's apple?  Presence of either of those would demand being a coded male (unless you intend to be a bearded woman, with all other signs pointing to female).

But anyway. so what if people make judgements based off emote echos, though?  They're going to make arbitrary judgements ICly anyway if you're that close.  React appropriately.  Get offended.  Become embarassed.  Assume such things have happened all your character's life.  He/she may have even taken steps to encourage one assumption or the other (and your coded gender would reflect that).

Grammatical troubles aside, I think a neutral pronoun would just be tacky and a little jarring.  Androgyny should be so much more subtle.  Having 'it' in emote is just going to scream "Hey everybody!  Look!  It's Pat!"

[Yokunama]

I kinda like the idea. Then again, I don't like it.

[Angela Christine]

I don't have a problem with how it is now.  When I've played an androgynous character most people have played along despite seeing "she" in emotes.

Usually with androgynous people their gender become more certain the more you watch or interact with them.  Coded androgyny wouldn't represent that very well.  The current situation isn't perfect, but it works ok.  You make it obvious with your description, and people gradually "guess" your gender through assessing and emote.  Some sporting players will even deliberately guess wrong.

[amish overlord]

I can see this...

A figures in a blue templar's robe.
While bowing to the figure in a blue templar's robe blah says "good day my lord."


A figure in a blue templar's robe says "Lord am I!?"

The figure in a blue templar's robe throws back the hood revealing a female face.

You think: I am screwed....

amish overlord  

[Yokunama]

Read the description?

[Dalmeth]

You know, before this, I probably would have never thought of  playing out a scene where my character mistakes the another's gender.

Even if I think this idea's caters to obsessive detail, I'm glad it's brought up the subject of mistaking gender. With all the people who run around in cloaks, I'm surprised it doesn't come up more often.