Pre-History?

[FightClub]

Wondering if anything has been written up about the pre-cataclysm times. I'm interested as a player what went on.  Like if Armageddon was actually the modern world, which died from nuclear fallout, and fell into what it is, or whatever.

[Cale_Knight]

FIND OUT IC RAR.

Seriously, I'd love to know too. And I'm sure there's one or two non-imms out there who know about it and another dozen who will insinuate they know by telling you to find FIND OUT IC RAR.

[Larrath]

According to the history timeline and assorted information in other public documents, the story is something like this:

Once upon a time, Zalanthas was an extremely lush, life-filled world.  It was ruled by what is called the Empire of Man, and in its head was the Old Council of Kings.  The Council started to fall apart, and the [supposedly humanoid] kings and the Avagnions, they decide to dissolve themselves.

This leads into a feudal area which lasts for a few years until the Dragon arrives in Gol Krathu (where Tuluk would be later built) and starts destorying the world with plagues, murderous servants and defiling magick - as a result, the humanoids that can escape run to the fringes of the Known World.
That period lasted for 400 years, and at its end the Dragon simply disappeared.  His empire collapsed within 5 years, and this is where the known timeline starts.

The humanoids that escaped and were forced to become nomadic come back to the middle of the Known World, creating settlements in the Vrun Driath (Allanak) and Gol Krathu regions.  Quintus Tektolnes, a tribal chieftain, conquers multiple tribes in the South and starts building his kingdom.  Quintus' son, who was apparently born the same year of his father's conquest, murders his father at the age of 22 and takes over the kingdom, which is now known as Allanak.  The Highlord Tektolnes starts building the walls of the city-state of Allanak 8 years later, and the next 80 years are uneventful until the warrior Muk Utep shows up, leading a barbarian army from the northwest and conquering the Gol Krathu.  Calling himself the Sun King, Muk Utep starts building Tuluk.
Over the next 100 years, Muk Utep conquers the rest of the Northlands, and almost 200 years after that, Allanak and Muk Utep have their first military skirmish to the east of the Red Desert.  During this war, a fortress belonging to Luir Dragonsthrall, the last living servant of the Dragon, but he doesn't die yet.

22 years after Luir's Outpost was discovered, a new Sorcerer-King called Valasurus creates the city-state of Steinal to the far east.
About 260 years after the creation of Steinal (and 916 years since his departure), the Dragon reappears in Tuluk and Muk Utep meets him.  It's unknown what happened then, but the Dragon destroys one quarter of Tuluk and leaves again.
40 years later, thelargest dune trader groups begin to form into Merchant Houses.

This is the earliest history, really.  Feel free to read racial and language-related documents for a few more pieces of the puzzle if you're interested in that.
We all know how Luir and Valasurus got their asses handed to them by Tektolnes.  Most of the tribes were wiped out by the constant territorial warfare and due to a lack of sufficient resources.

I hope this helps?  You should go back to the timeline and reread it every now and then, sometimes it can shed light on things or just let you develop some awesome theories to entertain.


Heh.  The pre-cataclysm world you should really find out IC on, but the helpfiles also provide some suggestions - it is theorized by some, for example, that the Shield Wall used to be the border of a giant body of water.  The Allanaki region is said to have been far lusher than the north in those days, but this is pretty much all you're getting.
This is really an incredibly enjoyable topic to research ICly, since there are so many different methods and so many valuable secrets one can learn while doing it.  It's highly recommended.

EDITED: the technological level the old Empire of Man had is unknown.  As far as magick goes, elementalism was apparently far rarer and defiling magick was introduced by the Dragon.  Sorcery existed before the Dragon, but it was strictly outlawed by the Empire of Man.
I doubt their technology was really much more advanced than that of the contemporary Known World - maybe they had boats and other sea-related technology, but since it's pointless nowadays it doesn't count.  Past that, maybe they had some more metal and better ways to create high-quality glass.
It's completely impossible, as I see it, that the Known World was advanced enough to have firearms, electricity or running water.  Maybe they had sewers, that much I'm willing to grant.

[Halaster]

Post-apocalyptic doesn't mean EARTH post-apocalyptic, as in after WW3.  It just means after an apocalyptic type event, which in the case of Zalanthas is as Larrath has described - the world was once green, but now is not.

[Cuusardo]

The blurb about the Avangions is intriguing.  It makes one wonder where they all disappeared to.  Ahh, the mystery!

[marko]

Anything you hear or read about the pre-history period is just speculation that may or may not be correct.  

So feel free to come up with your own theories about how things worked and what happened.

My own belief and understanding is that the Known World was a lush place with verdant plains, trees, and a lot of nasty creatures.  Then, it was destroyed.

What's cool is that there are hints scattered throughout the Known World about what happened before - if you have a character that wanders around you will start running into them.  If you piece them all together you may learn something more or not.  It's been a long long long time since the time of the Dragon (let alone the time before the Dragon).

[MorganChaos]

I always kinda thought it meant earth post-apocalyptic. My theory is that the Known World is Utah, or somewhere else desertlike in America. Maybe North Africa too. The salt flats are some smallish but salty body of water, and I'm still working on my theory for the Shield Wall. Maybe I'll investiagate it IC.

[Intrepid]

I always kinda thought it meant earth post-apocalyptic. My theory is that the Known World is Utah, or somewhere else desertlike in America. Maybe North Africa too. The salt flats are some smallish but salty body of water, and I'm still working on my theory for the Shield Wall. Maybe I'll investiagate it IC.

Utah does not have even close to this landscape.  It doesn't have two moons either.



The idea of the old world interests me as well.  There are quite a number
of hints in the helpfiles regarding linguistic progression, the way the various
races came to be and the council of avangions themselves.  From the looks
of things, I wouldn't bank on a single avangion coming back.

Of course...we do know that they're possible.  Maybe you'll see a new one someday.

[Larrath]

As a word, Apocalypse refers to one of three things:
1) A certain belief in Jewish and Christian circles in the end of the world and in the salvation of the righteous.
2) Doom.
3) That awesome robotic villian from X-Men.  Pchawo!  Tzzt!  BLAM!

The word 'post-apocalyptic' generally refers to the second option, as is it with our case.  Armageddon is post acocalyptic because we play in the world of Zalanthas after its partial (but substantial) destruction by the Dragon.

I really don't believe Zalanthas is really just Planet Earth, and I really hope that it isn't the case.  I feel it would cheapen the game and just serve as a cliche that doesn't really contribute to anything.
It seems rather impossible for Zalanthas to be earth, though, since Lirathu (and Jihae as well, I believe) don't rise in the east nor set in the west and they don't care about the time of day, plus the sun is bright red.

[Halaster]

Zalanthas is more likely to be post-apocalyptic Krypton than Earth.

[Delirium]

<read>

<ponder>

<plot>

I want to be Armageddon's first Avangion.

Who wants to be my right-hand man?  Line up to the left.  Please ignore the pile of dead bodies and ash.

[Twilight]

I remember at least one staffer at one time said something like PC avangions over my dead body, or something.

Its possible to find out a couple of things about avangions IG, but my guess is that its a leftover of old areas that were never redone.

[John]

I remember at least one staffer at one time said something like PC avangions over my dead body, or something.

That can be arranged  :twisted:

[Anonymous]

As a word, Apocalypse refers to one of three things:

Don't forget that awesome and totally original ApocalypseMUD.

[Tlaloc]

Zalanthas is more likely to be post-apocalyptic Krypton than Earth.

Except that everyone knows Krypton blew up after its apocalypse, which would have left nothing for us to play on.

I want to say that, at least in Dark Sun, Athas was a post apocalyptic Forgotten Realms. Thats what I heard from someone, anyway...not that it's nessecarially true by any stretch of the imagination. I like thinking of it as Forgotten Realms, or Middle Earth gone horribly, horribly awry. And that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

I mean, who doesn't love this image:

Code Select Expand


The swarthy, handsome ranger says, in sirihish:
    "Gentlemen, we do not stop till nightfall."

The red-haired halfling asks, in sirihish:
    "What about breakfast?"

Irritated, swarthy, handsome ranger says, in sirihish:
    "You've already had it."

Sounding confused, the red-haired halfling asks, in sirihish:
    "We've had one, yes. What about second breakfast?"

Sounding resigned, the dark-haired halfling tells the red-haired halfling, in kentu:
    "I don't think he knows about second breakfast, Pip."

Looking desperately aghast, the red-haired halfling asks the dark-haired halfling, in kentu:
    "What about elevenses? Luncheon? Afternoon tea? Dinner? Supper? He knows about them, doesn't he?"

Deadpan, the dark-haired halfling tells the red-haired halfling, in kentu:
    "I wouldn't count on it."

Pullng out a blowgun, the red-haired halfling exclaims, in kentu:
    "We'll show him then!"

The red-haired halfling shoots the swarthy, handsome ranger with a feathered, poison-tipped needle!
The swarthy, handsome ranger's eyes roll back in his head.
The swarthy, handsome ranger crumples to the ground.

Happily, the red-haired halfling tells the dark-haired halfling, in kentu:
    "Let's eat!"

The dark-haired halfling nods, happily, pulling out a crude bone skinning knife.


[marko]

Oh my god Tlaloc...

You just ruined my RP for like five minutes.

I couldn't type.  Couldn't respond.  I'm _still_ laughing.

[Rhyden]

LMFAO.

Tlaloc is my gawd.

[Many Faces]

You just earned yourself a complimentary six pack whenever I roll through Texas, Tlaloc.

Seriously awesome.

[Bogre]

Hahahah.

A 6 pack from me, too, but you'll have to roll by Houston, I don't do deliveries.

[jhunter]

That was awesome.  :lol:  :lol:

[Intrepid]

Except that everyone knows Krypton blew up after its apocalypse, which would have left nothing for us to play on.

I want to say that, at least in Dark Sun, Athas was a post apocalyptic Forgotten Realms. Thats what I heard from someone, anyway...not that it's nessecarially true by any stretch of the imagination. I like thinking of it as Forgotten Realms, or Middle Earth gone horribly, horribly awry. And that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

I mean, who doesn't love this image:

Being a Dark Sun fan myself, I can tell you that Forgotten Realms cannot
be Athas.  There have never been halfling cliff-riders with incredibly
advanced organic technology, nor are all the humanoid races descended
from those little fur-feet.

There was never a known Blue Age in the Forgotten Realms history either,
which stems from not only the sun being blue but from a golden age of
halfling develop and power.

There were no pyreen either, which is a sort of proto race containing the
physical traits of numerous races.

Not to mention, there have been implications that Athas, Faerun and Krynn
all exist in the same multiverse and can be accessed...through Ravenloft.

ugh.

[SpyGuy]

Yeah, Athas definitely wasn't Toril (wasn't that the FR world's name?) or any other different setting.  But you can definitely say that the Green Age (I could be wrong with the name, I lost all my dark sun .pdfs) was similiar in a lot of ways to your typical medieval fantasy, granted with a preference for psionics.  I always assumed pre-Dragon Zalanthas to basically be your normal run of the mill fantasy with plenty of metal and maybe a slight penchant for psionics.  I'm doubting a whole lot of it is even fleshed out at the staff level since it doesn't apply terribly to the game world itself, just like how the Known World is really only a very small fraction of the planets surface.  For all we know the Avangions left and founded their own utopian city states way away from all the defilers and chaos of the Dragon, until he left the Known World to go reek havoc on their own little pieces of paradise.

For those interested in Dark Sun, since it is the primary influence on Arm much more than Dune, there is a series of novels I've never read, a pretty large line of campaign setting books and nowadays www.athas.org (link was down as I write this post) has revived the setting for 3rd edition D&D.  I was actually exposed and fell in love with the setting because of the SSI computer game Dark Sun: Shattered Lands.  Probably the best SSI D&D game released its worth it if you're up for some nostalgia.  There was an online version that didnt do so well and the sequel Dark Sun: Wake of the Ravager was buggy and had a terrible quest design.  Overall Dark Sun wasn't the best D&D setting but it was probably the most unique, the whole concept of post-apocolyptic fantasy is an amazing one in my opinion.

Ninja Edit:  Oh yeah, Arm needs Ravagers.  They put Mekillots to shame.

[FightClub]

According to the history timeline and assorted information in other public documents, the story is something like this:

Once upon a time, Zalanthas was an extremely lush, life-filled world.  It was ruled by what is called the Empire of Man, and in its head was the Old Council of Kings.  The Council started to fall apart, and the [supposedly humanoid] kings and the Avagnions, they decide to dissolve themselves.

This leads into a feudal area which lasts for a few years until the Dragon arrives in Gol Krathu (where Tuluk would be later built) and starts destorying the world with plagues, murderous servants and defiling magick - as a result, the humanoids that can escape run to the fringes of the Known World.
That period lasted for 400 years, and at its end the Dragon simply disappeared.  His empire collapsed within 5 years, and this is where the known timeline starts.

The humanoids that escaped and were forced to become nomadic come back to the middle of the Known World, creating settlements in the Vrun Driath (Allanak) and Gol Krathu regions.  Quintus Tektolnes, a tribal chieftain, conquers multiple tribes in the South and starts building his kingdom.  Quintus' son, who was apparently born the same year of his father's conquest, murders his father at the age of 22 and takes over the kingdom, which is now known as Allanak.  The Highlord Tektolnes starts building the walls of the city-state of Allanak 8 years later, and the next 80 years are uneventful until the warrior Muk Utep shows up, leading a barbarian army from the northwest and conquering the Gol Krathu.  Calling himself the Sun King, Muk Utep starts building Tuluk.
Over the next 100 years, Muk Utep conquers the rest of the Northlands, and almost 200 years after that, Allanak and Muk Utep have their first military skirmish to the east of the Red Desert.  During this war, a fortress belonging to Luir Dragonsthrall, the last living servant of the Dragon, but he doesn't die yet.

22 years after Luir's Outpost was discovered, a new Sorcerer-King called Valasurus creates the city-state of Steinal to the far east.
About 260 years after the creation of Steinal (and 916 years since his departure), the Dragon reappears in Tuluk and Muk Utep meets him.  It's unknown what happened then, but the Dragon destroys one quarter of Tuluk and leaves again.
40 years later, thelargest dune trader groups begin to form into Merchant Houses.

This is the earliest history, really.  Feel free to read racial and language-related documents for a few more pieces of the puzzle if you're interested in that.
We all know how Luir and Valasurus got their asses handed to them by Tektolnes.  Most of the tribes were wiped out by the constant territorial warfare and due to a lack of sufficient resources.

I hope this helps?  You should go back to the timeline and reread it every now and then, sometimes it can shed light on things or just let you develop some awesome theories to entertain.


Heh.  The pre-cataclysm world you should really find out IC on, but the helpfiles also provide some suggestions - it is theorized by some, for example, that the Shield Wall used to be the border of a giant body of water.  The Allanaki region is said to have been far lusher than the north in those days, but this is pretty much all you're getting.
This is really an incredibly enjoyable topic to research ICly, since there are so many different methods and so many valuable secrets one can learn while doing it.  It's highly recommended.

EDITED: the technological level the old Empire of Man had is unknown.  As far as magick goes, elementalism was apparently far rarer and defiling magick was introduced by the Dragon.  Sorcery existed before the Dragon, but it was strictly outlawed by the Empire of Man.
I doubt their technology was really much more advanced than that of the contemporary Known World - maybe they had boats and other sea-related technology, but since it's pointless nowadays it doesn't count.  Past that, maybe they had some more metal and better ways to create high-quality glass.
It's completely impossible, as I see it, that the Known World was advanced enough to have firearms, electricity or running water.  Maybe they had sewers, that much I'm willing to grant.

Yeah that answered a lot of it, and only lead to more mystery in itself.  Awesome Man, and thanks.

<read>

<ponder>

<plot>

I want to be Armageddon's first Avangion.

Who wants to be my right-hand man?  Line up to the left.  Please ignore the pile of dead bodies and ash.

Sure, why not... (what the hell was an Avangion?  Oh a councilman -- that sounds ... odd *do I get special powers? Sweet....lets do it*)

[jcarter]

The big secret is that the Empire of Man was actually Earth, 2007.

The Dragon was really a nuclear bomb.

[Vesperas]

The big secret is that the Empire of Man was actually Earth, 2007.

The Dragon was really a nuclear bomb.

The Dragon was a woman.

Get over it.