Bowing to Templar's in North

[Ritley]

Is it alright to bow to Templar's in the north? I still have not got used to the whole new culture yet. I bow to them a lot... is it alright to do that?

[marko]

Typically bowing is a personal show of loyalty in a strong relationship.  Something that is usually done in private and not done publically.

There is nothing wrong, per se, about bowing a templar (or a noble) but it may be construed as bad etiquette or even as an attempt to mock.  

Tuluk does not require bowing in public although other signs of respect are often shown (polite dips of the head for example).

So while it isn't wrong it typically isn't done.  Those who bow to strangers in public reveal themselves to be new and are usually corrected without a huge fuss being made.

[Halaster]

Do you know if this is documented anywhere, Marko?

[Anael]

Now that Tuluk is ruled by the servants of the Sun King, most Tuluki nobles and templars ... wouldn't usually feel the need to make people bow to them. They would consider it more respectful for a commoner to show their respect in a more productive manner, such as service to them or their respective house. While bowing isn't expected, it isn't necessarily considered a disrespectful act, either. But if a noble or templar feels that a person is insincere while bowing to them, trying only to curry favor with them, they may take offense (but may or not show it).

In 'real' situations in game, it's more as marko says, though.

[marko]

Yep, from: http://www.armageddon.org/general/tuluki_rp.html

Edited to take out the quote that Anael beat me to.  

Furthered by how things have evolved in the game since that documentation has gone into play.

[ale six]

With the somewhat recent struggles of the Tuluki people, the prevalent custom of bowing to nobles and templars has declined. During the occupation, many citizens of Gol Krathu were forced to bow to their oppressors. Most of these people only did so out of fear, rather than respect. Now that Tuluk is ruled by the servants of the Sun King, most Tuluki nobles and templars, while knowing full well that they are better than commoners, wouldn't usually feel the need to make people bow to them. They would consider it more respectful for a commoner to show their respect in a more productive manner, such as service to them or their respective house. While bowing isn't expected, it isn't necessarily considered a disrespectful act, either. But if a noble or templar feels that a person is insincere while bowing to them, trying only to curry favor with them, they may take offense (but may or not show it). The people that are usually bowing are servants or someone that is already serving that noble or templar in some capacity, these people are usually not total strangers.

So it isn't a requirement like it is in the south, it may or may not be seen as polite, and it may or may not be seen as offensive.

edit: Marko and Anael BOTH beat me, but I'll keep the quote anyway.

[Anael]

Oh, and this:

Vendyra the Queen of Purity says, out of character:
    "Northerners shouldn't be bowing to *anyone*.  This is almost a
disrespect, calling attention to the southern custom of bowing to their
'superiors'.  It can be done sarcastically, but it will only plague them.  They
wish to be respected, but not..."

Vendyra the Queen of Purity says, out of character:
    "Ah, the line that got cut off was 'not in such a filthy southern style'."

[Raesanos]

Please note that the documentation should be considered authorative.

[Anael]

Does that mean Vendyra's words quoted above were just her personal opinion?

[Tlaloc]

I would echo that the documentation should be considered authorative. In my own opinion...bowing probably isn't as much a sin as Vendyra states during the '03 player-staff meeting.

In specific, while bowing is nice, Northern Templars prefer to have respect shown in more 'original' and 'interesting' ways. This can come in the form of gifts, service, extemporaneous song and dance, parades, favors, etc. etc. The nobility, being closer to the Commoners than the Templarate would generally forgo this, though more is demanded the more important the person you're addressing is.

I think this rule generally sums it up:

Northern Nobles and Templars don't demand bowing, but they still demand respect, and still expect their rightful stations to be shown. Bowing is one of the many respect-showing tools that a commoner has in a large toolbox of supplication. It might not be one which is commonly used, or even well liked or well recieved, but its an option.

[Cenghiz]

I always do bow when they're my patron (if I'm a partizan or a servant) and when it's private. Sometimes I bow even in public to my bosses (or emote a half-bow, half-nod) if I was grateful with their last favor.
As the last, I feel the urge to bow to Lirathans.. They're creepy.
Not yet I'm killed because of bowing but heh, as the documentation says, your character should really feel it while bowing.

[Aldiel]

Typically bowing is a personal show of loyalty in a strong relationship.  Something that is usually done in private and not done publically.

There is nothing wrong, per se, about bowing a templar (or a noble) but it may be construed as bad etiquette or even as an attempt to mock.  

Tuluk does not require bowing in public although other signs of respect are often shown (polite dips of the head for example).

So while it isn't wrong it typically isn't done.  Those who bow to strangers in public reveal themselves to be new and are usually corrected without a huge fuss being made.

Oh, oh, I like this explanation of Tuluki bowing Marko.  It makes me start to contemplate if some of my characters' relationships have ever been intimate enough for a bow.