Independance, is it possible?

[Pantoufle]

As a writer, I don't want to create stories where everything goes right for the main character. In fact, the more bad things that happen to him or her, the more interesting the story. Let your character roll with the punches, and you may surprised how much fun it becomes. With my longest lived character (an infamous Whiran), I don't think things ever went well - she was perpetually getting kicked out of merchant houses, marked with bounties, divided by circumstance from her loved ones, and so on. And that was the most fun I've ever had with a character. But I digress.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Call me a sucker for punishment, a masochist or whatever you want to call me. But strife in a character's story - or if not strife, unexpected events - make it far more enjoyable to play out. While it may be realistic to live out a life of reclusive blandness, it doesn't usually make for a very good story.

While I agree with both sentiments and believe it is this "strife" which makes the game enjoyable, I've also found a tendancy amongst some to overdo this.  Going to the opposite end of the spectrum can be just as detrimental as the reverse.  In other words, too much strife/conflict/blood can be just as bad as none whatsoever.  I realise this is a bit of a subthread to the original topic but also felt it worth remarking on here.  

Several characters ago I played a long lived persona in a clan which -- I felt -- was horribly micromanaged.  My character spent more time stuck talking to NPC elders in private rooms, at times, than doing what I had hoped to do: interact with the actual playerbase!  Worse still, his elders and enemies both seemed hell bent on practising this notion of "Let's make the game as harsh as possible, it's more fun that way" that it completely ruined the game experience for me.  What I'm saying is, that while it's important for our characters (whether they be rugged mercenaries or dainty merchants) to face conflict and danger, they should also face occasional rewards too.  In 6 months of playing the aforementioned character, the only enjoyable aspects of playing him were the events which I accomplished for him on my own; his superiors never bothered to give him any nifty little hand outs; all they had ever done was make life miserable for him (maybe, even, because they thought they were making the game more fun for me).  In short, the game should not be easy for us or perfect or fun, though neither should it be all negativity.  Yes, it's a harsh world (I couldn't possibly be more aware of this fact), but it's the occasional rewards within such a harsh environment which keep us coming back for more.  A light shines brightest in the dark and all that..

[Cegar]

I play for fun, mainly. I don't spend 10 minutes solo-emote skinning every single corpse or emote every single time I type /forage food, but I try to make realistic characters. Have I done some twinky things? Yeah, of course. At this point, I don't really want karma. I wouldn't trust myself to play a magicker, let alone a mindbender. I learn something new every single character (and I've had a fair amount), and I think gaining karma enough for more options would be sensory overload. Point is, you can have shitloads of fun without karma, and you'll probably feel less stressed playing too. I can only imagine how much the immortals watch karma 8 characters.

[Cuusardo]

You don't have to spend ten minutes emoting how you're skinning a corpse.  The idea behind emoting is to flesh out what you're doing.  A simple emote will suffice, and you don't need anything big and flowery that takes up four lines.

Say you're foraging for roots.  You could emote something like "The dirty ranger digs through the dirt in front of him."  You don't even have to do that every single time you codedly forage.  Just throw something in here and there.

Karma roles can be loads of fun, yes.  However, non-karma roles can be too.  It's all in how you play them.  And why does it matter how much the IMMs watch you?  If the thought of being watched by the IMMs worries or scares you, either you aren't doing something right, or you're letting paranoia ruin your fun.  Being watched is not a bad thing, because sometimes they will make interesting things happen.

[Cegar]

You don't have to spend ten minutes emoting how you're skinning a corpse.  The idea behind emoting is to flesh out what you're doing.  A simple emote will suffice, and you don't need anything big and flowery that takes up four lines.

Say you're foraging for roots.  You could emote something like "The dirty ranger digs through the dirt in front of him."  You don't even have to do that every single time you codedly forage.  Just throw something in here and there.

Karma roles can be loads of fun, yes.  However, non-karma roles can be too.  It's all in how you play them.  And why does it matter how much the IMMs watch you?  If the thought of being watched by the IMMs worries or scares you, either you aren't doing something right, or you're letting paranoia ruin your fun.  Being watched is not a bad thing, because sometimes they will make interesting things happen.

I think I'm starting to understand Jarod.

[Me]

Err..ahem. Ok, I'll add in a bit of suggestion to your original question, Jarod.

Yes, I think it is possible to make a independent hunter without any reliance on merchant houses. I've met, so far, quite a number of people who are independent hunters providing items and raw materials to merchants and crafters. With a bit of interaction in taverns or other PC populated areas, you might even get hooked up with a contract without actually joining in a clan. (Perhaps escorting a person from one place to another etc)

And as for the staffs 'ignoring your good side of rp and just regarding you as powergaming', I think the best way for you is to keep logs and then send in a log in which your PC was in a very eventful situation, maybe that way you can show the staff that you are actually not powergaming. *shrugs*

As for the karma part. Yes, it IS fun to play a certain race or guild that wasn't opened up to you when you first started. But, on the other hand, I'm told and I've met PCs of your average non magickal guild who had shaped the history of Armageddon. And I'm sure if you ask some of the veteran players , they'll be telling you that some of their favorite characters are non karma required. (My favorite character hardly used anything on the skill list except for contact and listen, but hey I still had fun )

Like all the posts that posted before me, I have to come to agree that it's not the KARMA or the CODE  that decides what's fun for you though they might have a small factor in what sort of occupation your PC will be choosing, but how your PC grow and develop through a series of events. Being able to backstab0rz a half-giant in one go is no fun unless there is a plot attached to it.[/i]

[spawnloser]

I think I'm starting to understand Jarod.

I'm not sure what this means.  You understand the angry posing that he does?  You understand his frustration in that he plays roles that won't get much notice by the staff and, thus, it doesn't matter so much how well he's playing, he still will be slow to get karma?

Really, there are ways to deal with this.  Make the staff notice you.  Send in updates of what your character's doing.  Don't just go hunt, skin, sell, repeat...have actual life happen to your character besides work, and tell the staff about that.  Your character's thoughts and emotions.  Use the think command.

Playing an indie character isn't about just making it by.  It's about making it by realistically and while not ignoring your character's non-mechanical, non-working side.

[Cegar]

I'm not sure what this means.  You understand the angry posing that he does?  You understand his frustration in that he plays roles that won't get much notice by the staff and, thus, it doesn't matter so much how well he's playing, he still will be slow to get karma?
/quote]

Yeah, I do understand his angry posting. When nearly every person posts some condescending crap about him needing to flesh out his character with emotes and a life when he said he has, I can imagine that'd make me pretty pissed off. I think some people haven't really read his posts. They see something about immortals, karma, "hunts too much", and then automatically post how they think he should roleplay. Wouldn't you be pissed off if I just responded to your post with some treatise on solo-rping with the sac-like tuber you found or something?

[Jarod550]

Look,

I have and probably will fuck up and do something unrealistic with my character or future characters.  I do my best to role play them realistically but in ways I enjoy as the player.  Will and has my character spent whole days sitting in one spot, emoting and speaking, and had fun, HELL YES.  Do eventfull things like that happen on every ig or ooc day? No way.  Does my character hunt and skin and god knows what else outside in the world a good bit, yes, does he forage all day to sit resting throughout the night in the dangerous outside just so he can forage again? No.

To me, and to my character, I do everything as realistic as I can think of, and when I fuck up, I normally get a pretty quick letter from some staff or the other, saying "Hey this shouldn't have gone down this way"  Then I either explain or nod and take it as a learning experience.  I understand there are only so many imms and so many watching pc's at one time.  And also that my character being an indy character is more apt to be missed or lost in the shuffle, I accept that.

Karma,  Do I want it as a player, sure, because I would like to experience the different options of play.  Do I kill my character on purpose to see if anything pops up on the new character screen, nope.

I'm finally getting this game right,  I'm so engrossed in my current role, that even if I was told, "Hey you can play a mindbender if you kill soandso" I would decline.  I'm finally to the point where I realise that if you're creative enough and work hard enough, your characters are fun.

I used to just take uncalculated risks with my characters, toss it at some poisonous critter with no cures, -hoping- that my coded skills were good enough to survive.  Now I weigh a good amount of what I do against the common threat in arm, DEATH.  I only grudgingly go against untested and unknown challenges, because I don't want my character to die.

I've had conversations with many of you VIA pm's and you getting my aim through my posts.  And I get one common complaint from you folks "You play characters that are like you, or respond like you"  I guess they are right to a degree, me as a person and player am more interested in combat, fighting, strength ect ect.  So I pick classes and guilds and house jobs ect ect on what I -feel- will be the easiest and most natural for me to play.  If that is being unrealistic and that's something that is frowned upon, well then let me know now.

I guess I'm getting sick of constantly having to defend myself as a player and my characters, and having people in game throw jobs at my character and assume that because it will technically be a cooshier situation for my character (free food free water pay) that my character should jump at it.  I don't want to do something that's going to limit my enjoyment of this great world that you folks built or helped build, because it's the -standard-.

I am at work and have to book out, but I finally decided I should spell this all out and let you folks know, that if you're offering me unbiased, constructive comments, great and thank you.

But if you're just looking to mold me into playing like you, I'm not EVER going to do that.  Hell I WISH that staff would watch me play for a week or so and comment, then I would know from the only people that matter "staff" what they like and dislike and maybe I would explain away some of my rationalization of this or that fact.  If they explained something to me that made sense, I would listen.  So far besides for a few slips, I haven't heard anything good.  I am not trying to be arrogant, but come on, can I -really- be that big of a fuck up?

Dunno, gotta run,

Later,

Jarod

[moab]

The only opinions that truly matter are yours and staff.  

Really.  It's freeing once you get that.

I agree that having people throw jobs at you or accept you (if you happen to be playing that halfbreed or escaped mul) when they truly shouldn't or wouldn't is annoying.  It makes the world into something it isn't supposed to be.

And finally, no one is trying to mold you into a particular type of roleplayer and your posts here have nothing to do with your in-game character, especially if you keep ooc separate from ic.  No one will ever know you are playing a particular character.

Violate that, though, and yeah your characters will be judged accidentally or no based (I suspect) on the quality of your GDB posts.

[Supreme Allah]

I used to just take uncalculated risks with my characters, toss it at some poisonous critter with no cures, -hoping- that my coded skills were good enough to survive. Now I weigh a good amount of what I do against the common threat in arm, DEATH. I only grudgingly go against untested and unknown challenges, because I don't want my character to die.

Though it's possible it's what you actually meant, I think the key to Arm isn't what you want him to do or feel.

The key is what he - your character who is not you - wants. You don't make him attack that poisonous critter because HE wouldn't want to risk it. Ideally (though this is not always the case obviously), your feelings shouldn't be a factor. It's a role. Try and see it as seperate from yourself as best you can, and as long as you're trying to do that, I say ignore all the rest of these people hating on you because you're doing your best and that's all you can do.

I guess I'm getting sick of constantly having to defend myself as a player and my characters

Honestly Jarod, the only suggestion I can give you is to post a lot less on these boards. You'll only get more of it the more you post, specifically in defense of yourself and your playstyle. As long as you are putting forth an honest effort to roleplay and not actively offending Immortals in some way, none of the rest of these people make a lick of difference.

Three things matter:
Listen to Immortals
Know Zalanthas
Roleplay

As long as you're doing those three things to the best of your ability and trying to learn as much as you can along the way, nobody can touch you.

[Jarod550]

Honestly Jarod, the only suggestion I can give you is to post a lot less on these boards. You'll only get more of it the more you post, specifically in defense of yourself and your playstyle. As long as you are putting forth an honest effort to roleplay and not actively offending Immortals in some way, none of the rest of these people make a lick of difference.

I've already came to the conclusion that the other people don't make a difference, and I post because I have opinions and -most- of the time I put them out here for valid reasons.

To just not post as much, for fear of people sounding off with ignorant claims or flames at me is to be sorta IMO a sissy about it.  Hell I can be sick of it for the rest of my life, and I'll still defend and explain myself.  I just as the immortals say, have to do it in a non flaming way, so I'll work on my wordcrafting and just mearly ask that people stop jumping on the bandwagon and think for themselves for once.

Jarod

[LoD]

Look,

I have and probably will fuck up and do something unrealistic with my character or future characters.  I do my best to role play them realistically but in ways I enjoy as the player.

What this attitude says to Imms and other players is that you having fun is more important than role-playing realistically.  You mention in other posts that you will rationalize play to make sure you can have fun.  This is a primary reason why you shouldn't expect to see any karma.  How can a staff member trust you to play a delicate role when you make it plain to them that your personal enjoyment will consistently trump the rules and expectations they have for the role.

But if you're just looking to mold me into playing like you, I'm not EVER going to do that.  Hell I WISH that staff would watch me play for a week or so and comment, then I would know from the only people that matter "staff" what they like and dislike and maybe I would explain away some of my rationalization of this or that fact.

More of the same attitude that I mentioned above in your first sentence.  It's like joining a football team and telling them that you don't believe in the "roughing the passer" penalty and are going to kick his ass every single play.  Do you actually think that attitude would get you on the team?  Does it matter at all what -you- think in that scenario?  No, it matters what the people who create and enforce the rules of the game think when it comes to whether or not you get to play.

As for Imms giving you good feedback.  You claim that you've talked with them or received letters from them multiple times that discuss what you are doing wrong, and none that discuss what you are doing right.  Yet your rationalization is that they just happen to be catching you when you're doing something bad.  Every time.  Let's put this in other terms:

You have window that looks into a room with a man and a woman in it.  Everytime you open that window, the man is physically assaulting the woman.  Logic will tell you that the man is physically assaulting the woman the majority of the time since he always seems to be doing it when you happen to take a peek.  Now the man says, "I hardly ever beat on her.  I do a lot of other good stuff, you just never see it."

Would YOU believe him?  When every time you see him, he happens to be beating her?  Most people would not, which is why you may be running into a lot of flak.

If they explained something to me that made sense, I would listen.  So far besides for a few slips, I haven't heard anything good.  I am not trying to be arrogant, but come on, can I -really- be that big of a fuck up?

Sometimes it takes people a long time to understand why their actions aren't really in line with how the game should be played.  Some of the contributing factors are:

Immaturity

A lack of maturity results in a lack of recognition for how a scene should be played, or an understanding of the consequences that go hand-in-hand with actions you may take.  Just like some children have to touch the stove before they realize it's hot or steal a candy bar until someone shows them why that's wrong, people do things in Armageddon that aren't realistic, logical or mature.  Krath knows I've been guilty of this.

Selfishness

Another reason is a degree of selfishness where a person believes that their fun is more important than other player's fun, obeying the rules, acting realistically, being patient, etc...  They don't care if spam stealing is wrong, or if hunting every animal within a 50 room square every day is excessive (whether or not they emote).  They just want to have fun, even if it doesn't necessarily make sense or adhere to the rules.

This isn't a one-player game.  Your actions can directly affect those of another player, whether you are aware of them or not.  When your RP and actions begin to become abusive or reckless, then the Imms may try to let you know what they feel you need to change in order to better fit with the rest of the game.

It's like being on a team.  Despite your character's personal motivations, we players are all working toward a common goal - which is to interact with the gameworld and one another in an attempt to have a rewarding experience in which we create, act and complete an everchanging and evergrowing story while obeying the rules of the game and keeping true to the spirit of Armageddon.

-LoD

[Jarod550]

What this attitude says to Imms and other players is that you having fun is more important than role-playing realistically.  You mention in other posts that you will rationalize play to make sure you can have fun.  This is a primary reason why you shouldn't expect to see any karma.  How can a staff member trust you to play a delicate role when you make it plain to them that your personal enjoyment will consistently trump the rules and expectations they have for the role.

Okay once again I must clarify cause you're not getting the point...

"some people" act like they must be SO in character as to let no motivation drive them to make their character do this or that.  You're telling me that my ranger, should wake up, and as long as he has food in his stomach, water in his stomach, and coins in his pocket, be happy?  So what's that translate to, spending hours of rl time sitting in the bar, until the need to eat hits him, and he's out of sids, before he will actually -do- anything?

I can't say too much as to give away who I am in game to those of you who don't know.  But my character is driven by the motivations that I designed in him when I wrote up and update his history and agenda.  Everything he does is to strive towards his objective and does do it at the exclusion of sleep, food, drinking or socializing.  He does it by the book.

Again this is an attempt by another player "LoD" to carve me into the mold he sets his characters by.  I don't know if I ever interacted with LoD's characters or not, but I'll tell you what.  My ranger has had more interactions with folks then any of the previous twenty characters I've ever made.

To say that I "trump" the rules to fit my own enjoyment is mearly a cheaply thought out flame directed at me, because in this game, whatever you want to do can be creatively worked in to the scheme of things.  I've had "helpers" who've told me that.

I don't look at the rules of realism or play and say "hmm, how can I break these today" as you're basically saying I do.  I look at things and go "Hmm, how would doing this fit in with joebobs life and the way he acts, is it consistent, would it make sense"  And if it does, I do it.  Now do I walk him into a latrine or dirty house and go "Hmm would joe bob benifit from emoting that he's cleaning this house, would it fit his character?" HELL NO, cause that's lame and not fun.

If you are to the point, where you totally seperate yourself from your character to the extent that you do things that you as the player (who controls the character) are not enjoying or dislikes, you shouldn't be playing that damn game.  Now I understand that sometimes you might be forced ICly to do something you don't like, (templar, your boss, whatever) and that's different.  Which is why my character has NO HOUSE.  I submit to templars when I am put in a position to have to, and play it realistically as we all know they can say a word and have me dead.
But when I'm waking up in my house or hall or whatever, and deciding, with free will of my character at hand, to go do something, I'm going to go do something that makes sense for my character, and IS enjoyable for ME.  Not running out and killing everything I see, just what I need to do for my character.

Again, if I don't get Karma, that's fine, cause I'm having a blast, with my old nothing karma, rangers.

Sometimes it takes people a long time to understand why their actions aren't really in line with how the game should be played.  Some of the contributing factors are:

Immaturity

A lack of maturity results in a lack of recognition for how a scene should be played, or an understanding of the consequences that go hand-in-hand with actions you may take.  Just like some children have to touch the stove before they realize it's hot or steal a candy bar until someone shows them why that's wrong, people do things in Armageddon that aren't realistic, logical or mature.  Krath knows I've been guilty of this.

Selfishness

Another reason is a degree of selfishness where a person believes that their fun is more important than other player's fun, obeying the rules, acting realistically, being patient, etc...  They don't care if spam stealing is wrong, or if hunting every animal within a 50 room square every day is excessive (whether or not they emote).  They just want to have fun, even if it doesn't necessarily make sense or adhere to the rules.

This isn't a one-player game.  Your actions can directly affect those of another player, whether you are aware of them or not.  When your RP and actions begin to become abusive or reckless, then the Imms may try to let you know what they feel you need to change in order to better fit with the rest of the game.

It's like being on a team.  Despite your character's personal motivations, we players are all working toward a common goal - which is to interact with the gameworld and one another in an attempt to have a rewarding experience in which we create, act and complete an everchanging and evergrowing story while obeying the rules of the game and keeping true to the spirit of Armageddon. -LoD

Of all the things I discuss in my posts, I always seek out to do things with others, I'm not selfish as many a people who've interacted with my character could tell you were I allowed to submit this proof.  I'm far from immature about it either, a good majority of you folks simply see the need to jump on the bandwagon anytime that someone mentions an immortal, karma, or any combinations of the two.  Again, I ask for construtive comments, not "I'm holier then thou, you horrible rper" comments that you provided.

To act like I'm an idiot and need practical examples such as a kid touching a stove, you can personally take that comment and save it for someone who needs it.  What I see a large majority of the problem in this game being is the restrictions that so many of you place on your pcs,  Some of you even go to the extent that if you get injured you emote for half an hour about how badly your head hurt, which can be fun, can be great, but not everyone wants to see this fellow in the bar bitching about his head.

If I could, I would shout loud and clear who I was in game, because there is a chance I've interacted with you on many occurances and I would be willing to bet that if I didn't have a known forum presence, you wouldn't have shit to say.

Jarod

[Tamarin]

Jarod, all you're doing is reaffirming things that you shouldn't be doing.  Here is the biggest one, as I see it:

"I don't want to make my PC do this thing, because I, Jarod, don't want to do it."

You said:

If you are to the point, where you totally seperate yourself from your character to the extent that you do things that you as the player (who controls the character) are not enjoying or dislikes, you shouldn't be playing that damn game.

This is complete backwards logic.  This is putting yourself so completely inside your character that you are willing to do things that you would hate to do in real life.  If you were separating yourself completely from your character, you'd be playing a dissociative sociopath.

The point of the game isn't to do things that you find fun.  The point of the game is to play a role.  Obviously, it makes sense that we (and Jarod you are a part of this 'we') would pick roles that we find fun.  That goes without saying.  But quite frankly, anyone can run around and hunt and sell stuff.  Great.  We need those people. They bring us stuff that we need.  But playing an intricately crafted social role is immeasurably more difficult.  These are the people who shape the world with the colors of their imagination, so I'd appreciate it if you'd stop referring to them as "pointless tavern-sitters" (I'm paraphrasing, but you get the idea).

[Anonymous]

What this attitude says to Imms and other players is that you having fun is more important than role-playing realistically.

The day that I'm not having fun role-playing realistically is the day that I go out and do something unrealistic..... yes, I'm impulsive.

Is this still a game?

Semper Pax,

Dirr

[Jarod550]

Jarod, all you're doing is reaffirming things that you shouldn't be doing.  Here is the biggest one, as I see it:

"I don't want to make my PC do this thing, because I, Jarod, don't want to do it."

You said:

If you are to the point, where you totally seperate yourself from your character to the extent that you do things that you as the player (who controls the character) are not enjoying or dislikes, you shouldn't be playing that damn game.

This is complete backwards logic.  This is putting yourself so completely inside your character that you are willing to do things that you would hate to do in real life.  If you were separating yourself completely from your character, you'd be playing a dissociative sociopath.

The point of the game isn't to do things that you find fun.  The point of the game is to play a role.  Obviously, it makes sense that we (and Jarod you are a part of this 'we') would pick roles that we find fun.  That goes without saying.  But quite frankly, anyone can run around and hunt and sell stuff.  Great.  We need those people. They bring us stuff that we need.  But playing an intricately crafted social role is immeasurably more difficult.  These are the people who shape the world with the colors of their imagination, so I'd appreciate it if you'd stop referring to them as "pointless tavern-sitters" (I'm paraphrasing, but you get the idea).

I can respect this post from Tamarin here, maybe I did mix up the idea, but you still got it, and at least you admitted that you play roles you considers fun, so do I.  I don't -want- to change the world, I don't -want- shape the world with the colors of my imagination.

Is it so wrong to just want to be a simple hunter? And enjoy it?  I don't need all this political crap, it's not entertaining for me.  I probably will never ever attempt to play a templar or noble or kadius or salarr JUST for that reason.

I just want to get people out of the mind frame that "If you're doing it at all different then the rest of us, you're wrong".

So now stop trying to change me because "I'm the fellow who brings you what you need"

Jarod

EDIT: My appologies to all your folks in the taverns, I will refer to you now as "world changing tavern sitters"

Lol

[Jarod550]

What this attitude says to Imms and other players is that you having fun is more important than role-playing realistically.

The day that I'm not having fun role-playing realistically is the day that I go out and do something unrealistic..... yes, I'm impulsive.

Is this still a game?

Semper Pax,

Dirr

Believe it or not, I had a helper tell me once, "This isn't a game, if you think of it as a game you're never going to succeed"

So who knows Dirr, but me and you will keep the faith, and grow us a revolution that is centered around realistically fun rp!

Rawr,

Jarod

[Tamarin]

I understand your gripe Jarod, I really do.  I went through a phase where that's all I wanted to do as well.  I just hope that you're not turning your character away from interactions and relationships, just because you want to hunt.  You can easily do both.  If your guy is a recluse, on the other hand, I hope that you're portraying that solo-ness in an accurate manner as well.

Just some things to think about.

[Jarod550]

I understand your gripe Jarod, I really do.  I went through a phase where that's all I wanted to do as well.  I just hope that you're not turning your character away from interactions and relationships, just because you want to hunt.  You can easily do both.  If your guy is a recluse, on the other hand, I hope that you're portraying that solo-ness in an accurate manner as well.

Just some things to think about.

I guess that's just it Tamarin, the reason I get so pissed off when people tell me I'm powergaming or doing nothing but hunt is the fact that any given time I'm playing I have people finding my mind, asking me things, giving me tasks, My poor character has more shit on his plate then he knows what to do with.  But all some people like to say is, "Well he hunts too much" and forget about the tons of plotlines he's fallen into.

Jarod

[Maybe42or54]

The point of the game isn't to do things that you find fun.

This is the only part of your post I am disagreeing with. If I don't enjoy it and don't see enjoyment in the future, then I'm not playing it.

[Anonymous]

READ IT! IT IS A DERAILING POST!

So who knows Dirr, but me and you will keep the faith, and grow us a revolution that is centered around realistically fun rp!

The only revolution I'm interested in is the Communist Revolution. HammerS and Sickles for ALL!

Semper Pax,

Dirr

[moab]

I think there is always a danger of assuming people are twinking when you don't know their half of the story.

I used to be a big one to whine about getting pked without any emotes (open door; e; kill the something something guy), however, I learned that I was not privy to their thoughts, actions or RP that prefixed that set of commands.  Sometimes, this type of action is reasonable.  It may not be the purest of the pure in RP for the victim, but it is reasonable. I certainly don't expect the SWAT to engage me in roleplay when they break down my door and take my pot plants.  ;-)

I think this (lack of combat emotes in ambush) is partly due to code limitations.  People flee because they can die quickly.  People kill quickly because people flee.  It is not wrong to flee, nor is it wrong to flip the kill switch and watch it happen.

Now - if we did some cool mush-like time stop and interactive combat code - that would get us the best of both worlds.  I imagine, however, it would be a lot of work.

[Tamarin]

The point of the game isn't to do things that you find fun.

This is the only part of your post I am disagreeing with. If I don't enjoy it and don't see enjoyment in the future, then I'm not playing it.

If you had read the sentence or two following that, you'll see that I meant that the game -is- meant to be played for fun, but for a slightly different reason.

[Jherlen]

I can understand that Jarod wants to play the game and run around and be a hunter/adventurer instead of get involved in the intricate sensitive stuff. Certainly the Armageddon world is rich and deep and detailed and permadeath makes things exciting in that way. The thing is, to me that is playing Armageddon MUD like a hack and slash. It seems to be completely missing the point of what the game is tailored to.

There are other MUDs out there with MUCH more developed combat code and skills, races, classes, etc, for the people who want to crunch numbers. Armageddon's mechanical setup is pretty simple in comparison. If you play the game to have fun as a hunter running around and killing stuff and using skills, doesn't it follow you'd rather play somewhere else tailored to that?

If you -are- playing to be involved in plotlines, then there are other ways of going about it  that will probably land you deeper into more and crazier plots. There's only so much you can do as an independent. And Armageddon's best strength, IMO, is in its intrigue and roleplaying.

Playing with a "I don't care what anyone thinks and I'm unwilling to play the game realistically if I can't be doing exactly what I want to do at any given time" attitude, to me, just seems like missing the point. A game like this is built with the intent of creative an immersive roleplaying environment where people can have fun playing their roles. To many of us just being able to play in a place like this is having the fun we want. If you'd rather ignore the environment for your own fun, wouldn't you rather play somewhere less strict?

[Jarod550]

If you -are- playing to be involved in plotlines, then there are other ways of going about it  that will probably land you deeper into more and crazier plots. There's only so much you can do as an independent. And Armageddon's best strength, IMO, is in its intrigue and roleplaying.

Again, you're missing my point, re-read my prior posts please

Playing with a "I don't care what anyone thinks and I'm unwilling to play the game realistically if I can't be doing exactly what I want to do at any given time" attitude, to me, just seems like missing the point. A game like this is built with the intent of creative an immersive roleplaying environment where people can have fun playing their roles. To many of us just being able to play in a place like this is having the fun we want. If you'd rather ignore the environment for your own fun, wouldn't you rather play somewhere less strict?

That is not my attitude... AGAIN read my prior posts

Jarod