Condition of Armor in Shops

[Twilight]

Why is it that shops never seem to sell armor on their producing list that is in any other condition than new?

In my experience, the only time you ever see any armor in a shop that is anything less than new is when a PC has sold something to the shop.  Sure, you might see something for sale that looks shoddy, but its coded state is still new.

It seems to me that you would see a lot more armor in the world that was damaged, but might be the best that someone could afford.  It would also be a nice way to differentiate shops.  Some places, like a Salarr shop, would produce armor, and thus you would expect to see new armor being sold.  Other shops might only be resellers, so you would expect their normal offerings to be in worse shape.

I see this as a way to make the world a little more gritty.  As it is, I hardly ever, ever see anyone in armor that is in a condition less than new.  To get PCs to do anything than wear the best would probably take a drastic change in the pricing structure between the armor wear states.  Unfortunately, you run into the crafting system outputting everything at a new state, so you can't dramatically increase the price of a "new" piece of armor.  Unless you changed crafting to produce at a "used" state and required armor repair to be used to get it up to a new state.  So, I'm not sure you could change PC behavior.  You could definately change the atmosphere by changing what shops present for sale.

Anybody agree with this?  Do you think there is a way to get PCs to wear armor that isn't codedly "new"?  Should armor's description match its coded state when it comes into the game (like generic gith armor loading at used)?  Should shops be selling more armor in various condition states?

[jhunter]

Realistically, they would probably fix it up before selling it. *shrug* The conditions aren't exactly going to tell you if it is used or not when it has been repaired.

[Dan]

I'll wear armor until it is worn, torn or destroyed. It just takes a long time (IC years, OOC months) to get that way, aside from shields. Thats how I roll.

[waroth]

I would also think the shopkeepers would probably repair the nicer items before reslling them.  Lots of businesses who resell used items refurbish them before the sale in RL.

My 2 'sids.

[Twilight]

I don't disagree that a shopkeeper would repair something.  In fact, it would be a good idea that any item with a condition state other than new on a producing list not be repairable.  However, I disagree that all the shopkeepers would be able to repair everything to the new condition state.  It could have been repaired up to used, for instance.  Just because it says it is used, does not mean it hasn't been repaired.

[Hexxaex]

I'd like to see more patched up, repaired, or worn/used armor in the shops.  Good armor should only be avialable to those who have the money to pay for it, like for a Salarr special order.  I'd also like to see armors being damaged right on the spot from heavy hits taken, depending on the weapon used and the armor defending.  An obsidian longsword against a leather shirt should do some damage if it was a good enough hit.

[IntuitiveApathy]

I don't disagree that a shopkeeper would repair something.  In fact, it would be a good idea that any item with a condition state other than new on a producing list not be repairable.  However, I disagree that all the shopkeepers would be able to repair everything to the new condition state.  It could have been repaired up to used, for instance.  Just because it says it is used, does not mean it hasn't been repaired.

I don't really know how the armour repair system works codedly in the game, but this makes complete sense to me.  Besides, if something's been repaired, how 'new' is it going to be?  I figure it'd be damn tough for an object, especially if a piece of armour was violently damaged (and certainly not all of them are), to be repaired to a state that it was 'good as new' - or if it can be, that this state be deemed to be 'used'.

And I totally agree that having more damaged armours around would add to the grittiness of the game - seeing everyone around in brand new spanks all the time just seems odd to me.  One would figure that only the wealthiest of people could afford such digs in a world such as Zalanthas.  Perhaps making armours more damageable, like shields, would help this out.

[sarahjc]

I don't know, do you really see all that many people in the game with shiny new arms? My Pc's stuff gets scratched up, cracked and sweat stained might quick. Besides house guards (with are most if the shiney armed folk) I really don't see too many. Most bynners don't really care if they look like crap.

On the path of realism, there are some dingier shops in both cities, they are just not in the nicer parts of town. I would personally think that only the more upper class merchants could afford shops in the main Bazar or the main drag of shops in Tuluk. And those people who sell on the street there mostly sell just trinkets.  

It would be neat to see more places then there are now to buy things in the commoners quarter of both cities that sell low quality armor, weapons and clothing.

[Savak]

I can see some level of inconsistency with "a new torn leather helmet."  For many, many years there has been an inherent discrepancy between coded wear & tear and item descriptions.

Generally speaking, when we are setting up a shop we load a standard database copy of the items we want the shopkeeper to sell.  Almost invariably, that item loads as codedly "new".  After a player buys an item, the code loads a new one to replace it.  

There are a few existing opportunities for staff to help minimize that discrepancy when building & setting up shops.  However, I'm not sure about certain circumstances in which items are auto-loaded.  Unfortunately, despite having some available ways to work on this, the sheer volume of -existing- items makes it unlikely to see a sweeping quick-fix to minimize the numbers of "new old stinky hauberks".

-Savak

[Incognito]

Used arms and armor traders - the used car salesmen of Zalanthas!

The dinghy-looking rat-faced twerp pulls out a cracked tortoiseshell shield and tells you in rinthi-accented Sirihish:
"Hey, this is a real steal ya hear me? At this price, you just cant go wrong! And check out these real leather strappings in the back, plus - its still in one piece - you KNOW you can get a lotta mileage outta this baby out there in the sands"